Bernie Sanders: Abolish Private Prisons

a reply to: johnwick

You mean communism, maybe? because a lot of socialist countries prove it works, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Belgium.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: johnwick

Do you really believe if Sanders makes his way to the Oval Office he will turn America into a socialist nation? We already have socialist programs that have been around forever now. If this man gets in he's work will be for the people, not Big Biz.

(btw, off topic, John Wick 2 is in the works!)

He is avowed socialist so yes in a word that is what he intends to do. But don't worry his predecessor already did the hard work.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: johnwick

We've had a mixed economy with socialistic elements for 85 years, and we're still going.

There are also better and purer examples that put the lie to your comment.

And that right there should tell you how well socialism does..... perpetual recession now for how many years....but if only the evil capitalists would just go away then socialism will really work...

People always conflate when Sanders says he's a Democratic Socialist like he's campaigning for a new Nazi Germany or something.

His stance is basically a mix of capitalism and socialism. Not far from what we have now except for stronger social aspects like health care and education similar to what many European countries have. Countries which happen to be healthier and better educated, by the way.

He's also tough on extreme, concentrated wealth which inevitably leads to more poverty, income inequality, environmental degredation and a weak middle class. Those are simply fundamental flaws in capitalism that have no way of correcting themselves. The invisible hand doesn't care about social justice or the long term health of the planets precious ecosystems.

Sanders ideas are checks and balances that are desperately needed to stop this runaway train that is unfettered capitalism. And if you dont check out of control capitalism then you end up with unforgivable atrocities like for-profit prisons where there is an incentive to keep more and more people imprisoned.

That's like doctors being incentivized for keeping people sick... What a ridiculous system that would be. (rolls eyes)

Are we learning yet..??

originally posted by: Reflection

Sanders ideas are checks and balances that are desperately needed to stop this runaway train that is unfettered capitalism. And if you dont check out of control capitalism then you end up with unforgivable atrocities like for-profit prisons where there is an incentive to keep more and more people imprisoned.

That's like doctors being incentivized for keeping people sick... What a ridiculous system that would be. (rolls eyes)

Are we learning yet..??

Stop this runaway train? Seriously?

Do you know what the invisible hand is in this analogy? It's the engineer's hand, on the brake. That hand is more than capable of finding the most appropriate speed for the conditions.

The reason it doesn't is because people (like Sanders) have hog-tied that engineer in the name of "checks and balances", then have the nerve to blame the engineer for failing to keep control of the train.

What those people want is to run the train by having a committee of people standing in the cab arguing over who gets to blow the whistle. Actually, I'll correct that, it's not what they want but it's exactly what they'll get.

wow.....just wow.....

USA media and propaganda really has done a number on you Americans hasn't it?

Your so so busy tearing each other up in pathetic petty left/right, socialist/Capitalism arguments you have completely forgot the ACTUAL TOPIC! The real issue!

The for profit private prisons issues!

No matter what they are a corrupt failed institution! Private prisons fly in the face of equal justice to all and a balanced criminal justice system!

But hey go back to your petty partisan bickering. Meanwhile the corrupt bastards in your government and those running these atrocities are raking the money in a laughing there arses off at how your so divided they can get away with it.

a reply to: crazyewok

Depressing isn't it?

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: crazyewok

Depressing isn't it?

I just cant believe people are falling for it to be honest.

North Korea should take a page out the USA book of Propaganda at how REAL propaganda can be used.

a reply to: crazyewok

Been fighting this fight forever. Division, division division. It's everywhere and it's working. People will defend their division to death. It's crazy.

The fight for equality for example, a million different groups fighting for their own little slice of equality. Imagine if all of them were united instead of divided, but whatever.

It works for the powers that be. They want us divided like this, as long as we stay divided they stay in control. They don't even care about equality or inequality or most of the things they keep us divided over, all that matters is the actual division itself. It's how they get away with things like these prisons.

There's no one to stop them, because we seem to be incapable of seeing beyond our own doors and problems to realize the same people are #ing us all.

a reply to: crazyewok
In threads like this one can expect the GOP faithful to attack Bernie and label him a socialist(as if that is a bad thing).

The older generation in the US(the ones who usually vote) have been conditioned to dislike socialism. The younger generation for the most part knows better.

This discussion shows me how done will avoid the issue as much as possible and turn it into the typical right vs left bovine feces.

As an American, it is refreshing to see a legitimate POTUS candidate tackle important and difficult issues that the rest seem to turn a blind eye to.

Private prisons and the slave labor that is their product is a serious problem, yet no one in power wants to discuss it.

It is easy to ignore an issue like this when their lobbyists fatten their wallets.

a reply to: jrod

I dont really care about the socialist aspect here and dont even know why its being discussed here.

Private prisons are a catastrophic failure of the criminal justice system. R or D, all candidates should be condemning it.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

He can be whatever he wants but he can't become a dictator and turn the nation into whatever he pleases. Even with all the corruption in DC there are still checks and balances.

Obama is a socialist that did all the hard work for him? That doesn't even make sense.

a reply to: crazyewok

You know why it's being discussed because you brought it up yourself. Jrod nailed it, no matter what the political topic, the Left v Right bickering will always be here. I brought it in my OP because it was going to be used against Sanders, it always is. This is election season and this thread is in the elections forum so you have those are against all things Democrat come in and say anything they can do put down Sanders even if it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

That's how it rolls in politics, same in the UK, and that's why I don't subscribe to the Left or Right.

a reply to: EvillerBob

This deregulation argument is so old and tired.

The way to fix all these problems that out of control capitalism has produced is more capitalism? More deregulation?

It's like saying, "I want to get skinnier, so I think I'll eat more ice cream."

If more deregulation is what's needed then why did the economy collapse in 2008 with another looming? Why is there so much more income inequality? Why has the planet lost multitudes of precious species? I could go on and on! Most of which has been building since good ole 1980 when the dereg guy became President.

Again it's about having a balance of capitalism and socialism, not absolute socialism. That way the free market can do its thing, but only within boundaries that protect the ecosystems and social justice from being destroyed. It's gotten way out of balance and it doesn't take a genius to see that it's not on the side of socialism.

originally posted by: Swills


My first Bernie thread, about time I guess.

This man has been getting my attention more and more. He plans to introduce legislation to abolish private prisons as soon as Congress reconvenes.

........

I don't care if he's a self described socialist, I like him.

You might care if he's a self-described socialist if you associate the word "socialism" with the way socialists have historically abused prisons. It makes perfect sense that a socialist would be very keen on getting prisons fully under government control. That's exactly what you'd expect and that's exactly why socialism scares the hell out of sane people all over the world.

I feel the same way about this as I would if someone who was a self-described fascist was talking in the same general way. Anything a socialist is for doesn't pass the smell test with me.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

That's your problem. You hear the word socialist (Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, btw) and you start jumping to conclusions thinking he's Hitler. Not all socialist ideas are bad or tyranical. And just look at the current issue. If anything is a threat right now to society it's greedy, inhumane corporate elitists who are above the law. Hence for-profit prisons.

Sanders is for social justice. There is nothing in his platform that is tyrannical in anyway, shape or form.

originally posted by: Reflection

That's your problem.

Unfortunately, socialism (in general) and collectivism (in particular) is everyone's problem. Not just mine.

(Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, btw)

Nothing but an obfuscation. And I honestly don't know where the idea that the word Democracy means good came from, since it's really nothing more than mob rule. So, if you want to break it down to it's literal meaning, I'd say "Democratic Socialism" is socialism by mob rule. Sounds equally terrifying to me.

Not all socialist ideas are bad or tyranical.

But enough of them have been (consistently enough) to convince me. If I'm wrong, I can live with it. It's not like there are any real choices. And of course, that's the fundamental difference between myself and people who think like you do. I realize that these people all have the same basic agenda. Totalitarianism (or something close enough to be the same basic thing). It's just that It scares me a lot more when the public embraces people like good old Bernie. Oh, they'll eventually get what they want. I know that. They always do.

And just look at the current issue. If anything is a threat right now to society it's greedy, inhumane corporate elitists who are above the law. Hence for-profit prisons.

Like I said. It's the same people pulling the strings one way or another. If they want to officially put prisons strictly into the domain of government, you can bet they have a motive. And it probably doesn't have anything to do with our best interests.

Sanders is for social justice. There is nothing in his platform that is tyrannical in anyway, shape or form.

"Social justice"

Tossing terms like that around is definitely not going to change my mind about socialism. I don't know who you think you're fooling but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Blah blah blah blah blah

Drop the left / right BS for one minute and focus on the REAL problem!

For profit private prisons!

They are a failure! Tgey do nothing to prevent crime, lower reoffending rates and they clearly create unfair imbalances in a criminal justice system by dishing out inconsistent sentences and relying on "quotas" and convictions of non violent "criminals " over stupid things like possession of a certain plant!

Forget bernie is a socialist for ONE minute and ask why other politicians are not tackling these monstrosities!

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: Swills


My first Bernie thread, about time I guess.

This man has been getting my attention more and more. He plans to introduce legislation to abolish private prisons as soon as Congress reconvenes.

........

I don't care if he's a self described socialist, I like him.

You might care if he's a self-described socialist if you associate the word "socialism" with the way socialists have historically abused prisons. It makes perfect sense that a socialist would be very keen on getting prisons fully under government control. That's exactly what you'd expect and that's exactly why socialism scares the hell out of sane people all over the world.

So your fear is...handling prison in such a way that corporations don't profit off of people being arrested...and not allowing legal bribery to politicians, to convince them to 'get tough on crimes' and such, to increase their profits...

What a strange fear...I'd rather not set up an industry that profits off of imprisonment, thereby incentivizing as large a scale if incarceration as possible...

'Land of the free' indeed...5% of the global population, 25% of the global prison population...but it's not enough! If 'freedom' means being locked in a cage, we are indeed a freedom loving nation...and the private prisons are the beacons of light in this free nation...

originally posted by: Reflection
a reply to: BrianFlanders

That's your problem. You hear the word socialist (Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, btw) and you start jumping to conclusions thinking he's Hitler. Not all socialist ideas are bad or tyranical.

That is the dumbest thing ever...'THE WORD SOCIALIST IS USED IN THE NAME OF THE NAZI PARTY, THEREFORE SOCIALISTS ARE NAZIS!' Unbelievably simple-minded...you hav to actually look at ideas, not labels...for one thing, socialism is about improving the lives of all citizens, thus particularly the less wealthy since they are disadvantaged...I don't think murdering the masses counts as helping them...pretty sure...