Dear "Religious" Anti-Gay Parents - What if your child turns out to be LBGT+?

a reply to: StalkerSolent

Legitimate question for the OP: what if you kids ended up becoming one of these anti-gay Christians you're writing about?

That question is completely irrelevant because of one simple fact: religion is a choice, sexual orientation is not. I was born into a christian family and on my birth certificate, my religion is listed as such. But I am not christian because I do not have the same beliefs as they do, and that is my choice. Something that is one of the core reasons for the controversy surrounding gay rights is the belief that homosexual people choose to be gay. They don't choose that any more than they choose their eye color.

People who use the christian faith as banner for perpetuating that belief are doing the christians who do not feel that way a grave injustice, because true christians follow the new testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ, who was a good man, whose name is the very basis of the entire religious movement, and he was about lifting people up...not beating them down.

Taking passages out of the context in which they were written, twisting them around to promote negativity and the mistreatment of their fellow human beings, is also a choice; just like radical islam, which is nothing more than a bastardization of the Koran's teachings, and is not a reflection of the people who really do follow their religious teachings in the way they were meant to be followed. Yet people, such as the OP here, try to throw them all into the same box under one blanket. It is not a fair assessment and spawns conflict where there should be none.

And what is happening to the children who actually are being treated this way? They're still being treated this way, right this second, and that will not change any time soon because everyone is too busy having a pissing contest over the validity of their individual religious beliefs, rather than trying to address the actual problem. The OP's topic actually does have merit and could be a great opportunity for enlightenment and understanding, but instead has de-evolved into just another platform for people to sling insults at each other, and that is helping no one...it's just widening the rift that is already there and perpetuating the intolerance and hate--from all sides.

a reply to: AllIsOne

Show me one person who really lives by the Bible, but many do call themselves Christians? I'd say there is not a single person on this planet.

Well, I'd say you really need to get out more, then. There are plenty of people on the planet who really do live by the bible, but they often get lost in the mix due to baseless assumptions just like yours.

a reply to: tigertatzen

To be brief:
1. I don't see why the question is irrelevant.
2. I'm not arguing that homosexual desires are a choice, but I also don't think you or I speak for all homosexuals.
3. I think it's possible to think that homosexual sex is wrong without "beating people down."
4. [Edit: I'll hold that thought ]

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: Prezbo369

And yet you are an atheist.........that is unless you believe in a god?

Since when is the term "agnostic" synonymous with "atheist"? Read:

In this context any 'agnostic' lacking the belief in a god is by default an atheist. Otherwise they'd be theists....

a reply to: Prezbo369

I'm an anti theist but believe in god .
A rare breed I suppose Religion is killing humanity but my God is mine and mine alone so that is not any form of religion.

a reply to: boymonkey74

A theist is just someone that believes in god/s, no religion required.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Words have meanings for different things but I like this guys and thats why I call myself one.

www.urbandictionary.com...

a reply to: boymonkey74

But under that persons definition you'd still be a theist.

A person who holds the view that organized religion when considered throughout the centuries has been a destructive force in society, wrongly believed is that all are also agnostics or atheists, but a great number of faithful theists also see organized religion as harmful to society and choose to follow their own path to god.

a reply to: Prezbo369

I'm just anti this.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: StalkerSolent

a reply to: tigertatzen

To be brief:
1. I don't see why the question is irrelevant.
2. I'm not arguing that homosexual desires are a choice, but I also don't think you or I speak for all homosexuals.
3. I think it's possible to think that homosexual sex is wrong without "beating people down."
4. [Edit: I'll hold that thought ]

1. I explained why your question was irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
2. I never said anything about homosexual "desires". I said that sexual orientation is not something we choose. Not acting on that orientation and pretending to have a different one would be a choice. We like what we like, and that is true for everyone, regardless of who they are. You either like something or you don't. Even if those likes change, it is not a choice. I abhor cantaloupe, for instance. I could make the choice to force myself to eat that vile substance every day if I wanted to, but that would not make me like it...disliking the way it tastes is not a choice. It simply is part of who I am.
3. You are simply echoing precisely what I already said.
4. That's probably wise. There is no need to be nasty just because I said your question was irrelevant. I'm allowed to not agree with you, and vice versa.

a reply to: Prezbo369

In this context any 'agnostic' lacking the belief in a god is by default an atheist. Otherwise they'd be theists....

Context does not change the definition of the word. Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve in "god". Period. Atheists believe that "god" does not exist. Period. Theists believe in "god". Period.

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: Prezbo369

Context does not change the definition of the word. Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve in "god". Period. Atheists believe that "god" does not exist. Period. Theists believe in "god". Period.

Agnostism refers to knowledge, not belief. And as you can hold a belief in pretty much anything, context is very important.

And seeing as agnostics dont harbour a belief in god/s they are atheists by default, as I said.

What youre claiming would only be true and would only make sense if you changed the definitions of the words 'agnostic' and 'atheist'.

Period?

a reply to: tigertatzen

Yet people, such as the OP here, try to throw them all into the same box under one blanket. It is not a fair assessment and spawns conflict where there should be none.

tiger, much of what you say is intelligent and worthwhile.

But I DID NOT MOVE THE GOALPOSTS, NOR DID I EVER LUMP "ALL" Christians together.
For crying out loud.
I'm the one you owe an apology, too, not Rev9.

I was pressured to change the title from "Christian anti-gay parents" to RELIGIOUS ant-gay parents, because all of the "Christians" were pitching a fit and ignoring the question.

Kindly retract your slander, and do it with class.

I believe in math and science.

As for the petty (irrelevant and off-topic) argument going on above regarding definitions:

DEISM is the belief in a creator, who made the world but does not take a personal interest in it -- doesn't require worship, answer prayers, judge behavior, or necessarily promise a life after death (unless that was part of the original creation). Deism is a fairly benign belief, because there are no consequences for accepting or rejecting it.

THEISM is the belief in an active, interventionist god who not only created the world (and some believe fine-tuned it for human use), but also may require worship, answer prayers, judge sinners, and may have created a divine son or other entities to live among humans. Theists are 100 percent certain their god(s) exist, and have faith in this without any objective, verifiable evidence. There are many theistic religions, each of which insists it is the only true one.

ATHEISM is the absence of belief in any gods. It is not a belief system and it is not a religion. Based on the absence of any evidence for the existence of any god(s) where such evidence should be if god(s) did exist, many atheists are 99.9 percent certain that no god(s) exist. But they are open to the slight possibility they could be wrong and would be willing to accept the existence of god(s) if convincing objective, verifiable evidence were to appear. Therefore they do not have faith in the nonexistence of god(s). They simply have no belief in any gods,

AGNOSTICISM is formal uncertainty about the existence or nonexistence of god(s). The agnostic asserts it is impossible to determine existence or nonexistence. Theists sometimes try to tell atheists that because they are not 100 percent certain god(s) don't exist, they are agnostics. This is not true. An atheist has no belief in god(s). That is not the same as believing it is impossible to tell if god(s) exist or not.

Now can we please return to the TOPIC?

TO PARENTS - any parents, but specificially any parents WHO THINK HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG -

what would you do if your child says they are NOT CISGENDERED (means comfortable with how they were born) HETEROSEXUAL, and
how would your religion (if any) affect your CHOICE of how you treated them?

Got it?
*mutters "Jesus it's like trying to herd cats."* SMH

a reply to: Prezbo369

Agnostism refers to knowledge, not belief. And as you can hold a belief in pretty much anything, context is very important.

It refers to the belief that we have no real knowledge of "god", therefore they do not believe in the concept. They are not atheists, "by default" or otherwise. Atheists do not believe in a higher power, whatsoever. Many agnostics would, if they could see the proof of it. You can keep making things up and clog the thread all you want, but it does not change the fact that you are wrong. I am not wasting any more energy on this pointless argument. Have a great day.

a reply to: StalkerSolent

It's hypothetical, tho, so you can answer it regardless!
And unlike me, you're actually experienced in having kids! All the better.

Honestly, I can't really answer it 'hypothetically' - because I already know how they turned out.

Now, if one of them decided in some psychotic flight of fancy to become "born-again" and start "gay-hating", I'd sit down and discuss with them what my problems were with their decision to "convert" to such a belief system. But when they were children, I talked to them about LOTS of different "types of religious beliefs", and we didn't discuss homosexuality at all because it never came up.

There was never a reason to - and it was clear by the time they were in preschool that neither of them had homosexual or gender identity issues.

Now - if, perhaps, a grandchild comes along later whose parent (my child-in-law) tried to instill Evangelical Christianity into them, or a day-care provider or teacher or ANYONE tried that, I would absolutely step in. If a grandchild turned out to be non-hetero, then that is who they are, and they will be loved and nurtured all the same. Likewise if they are biracial.

I did not, and WILL NOT allow indoctrination of any of my children or grandchildren into dogmatic religious nonsense.
Hope that answers your question.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

tiger, much of what you say is intelligent and worthwhile.

But I DID NOT MOVE THE GOALPOSTS, NOR DID I EVER LUMP "ALL" Christians together.
For crying out loud.
I'm the one you owe an apology, too, not Rev9.

I was pressured to change the title from "Christian anti-gay parents" to RELIGIOUS ant-gay parents, because all of the "Christians" were pitching a fit and ignoring the question.

Kindly retract your slander, and do it with class.

I have not slandered you. You are the one who changed the OP, and I was very happy to defend you until I was told that my efforts were misplaced.

I was pressured to change the title from "Christian anti-gay parents" to RELIGIOUS ant-gay parents, because all of the "Christians" were pitching a fit and ignoring the question.

You are lumping them all together right there in the above statement. I don't understand how you cannot see that. I don't particularly care whether or not you have some long-standing hatred toward christians or other religious groups, as many have asserted on this thread. I do, however, care that my defense of you was based on something that was not what you originally had published, because it caused me to unfairly judge the comments of someone else, and for that I owed an apology to that person.

If I personally author a thread, you can bet I am going to mean what I said, and whether people "pitch a fit" or not, I will not change it. If you truly believe in what you are saying, then own it. Don't put something out there and then alter what you said, because not only does it make you come off as wishy-washy and insincere, it also causes confusion for those who happened to join the party late, such as myself. Don't sit there and demand that I apologize to you and accuse me of slandering you, when you openly admitted that you went back and changed the original statement, essentially falsifying your own words, because you were pressured to do it. What, you can't think for yourself, is that what you're saying?

You opened this can of worms, so take responsibility for it. You are not a victim here. Grow a pair, be authentic, and do it with class.

Ok. Enough.

This has simply turned into a bitching contest.

Closed.