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An explanation of those white lines in the sky behind planes.

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posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 10:59 AM
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This debate seems to be a difficult one to have. One side is based on science fact, the other, seems to either disregard the facts, or flat out doesn't believe them. In an effort to find out which of the two that is, I'd like to ask that anyone who disagrees with this science, offer an alternative explanation to what makes contrails persist. Keep in mind that all the science offered here is what has been taught to everyone in the field for decades.
Here is a start:
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

What is a contrail and how does it form?


To answer this question, lets first identify what a contrail is. A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.


Here is a page with some very specific information:
cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...

So again, if you believe in the chemtrail theory, that's fine. As long as you understand it's just a theory. But if the above cannot be dis proven, then the age old "just look up" "I can see them with my own eyes" is proof of nothing but reaffirming the fact that contrails exist.
Contrails:

(BTW-that thing sticking up is a driver, this pic was taken on the #1 hole a golf course.)




posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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Good OP because you're obviously searching for the truth rather than just trying to win an argument, no matter what.

The way I see it is that "science fact" implies mainstream, accepted information.

However, those of us who believe we have on this planet a shadow government that controls the mainstream via lies and deception cannot have an intelligent conversation with those who trust the mainstream.

I call it "planet A" and "planet B." Planet A is inhabited by people who are informed by the mainstream; planet B by people who are informed by alternative sources because they feel that they are more likely to get the truth rather than information put forth by those with an agenda/vested interest to remain in power.

I feel that the contrail - chemtrail debate is a waste of time because it's too easy to obfuscate the issue ad infinitum.

And if we do have a shadow government that is working behind the scenes via secret, (black) projects, how in the world are ordinary people expected to find out what's really going on?

This is why on other threads I've made an appeal to members to respect the dignity of our whistleblowers who are trying to communicate with the world about the spraying that is going on, endangering the health of all, worldwide!



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots
Good OP because you're obviously searching for the truth rather than just trying to win an argument, no matter what.

The way I see it is that "science fact" implies mainstream, accepted information.


As far as I can see, mainstream isn't the same thing as science fact. For example, in America 70% of it's population considers itself Christian. So one could say that Christianity is the mainstream way in which Americans interpret life, the universe and everything. It won't surprise you that there's very little science involved in Christianity.


However, those of us who believe we have on this planet a shadow government that controls the mainstream via lies and deception cannot have an intelligent conversation with those who trust the mainstream.


I've noticed that.. lol.

Trusting the mainstream? Is that what you think is going on? You'll find that many debunkers (myself included) have very little good to say about the government. But that's not the issue here: the question we're asking here is: Are those white lines in the sky anything other than what they are supposed to be? We're still waiting for evidence that shows they're not Cirrus Aviaticus.


I call it "planet A" and "planet B." Planet A is inhabited by people who are informed by the mainstream; planet B by people who are informed by alternative sources because they feel that they are more likely to get the truth rather than information put forth by those with an agenda/vested interest to remain in power.


That's way too black and white for me. My information comes from many sources, both mainstream and ermm.. other sources. Usually it's really easy to tell when when some party is pushing an idea for reasons other than finding the truth. Let me list a couple of examples that we find in chemtrail circles:

1: Moving goalposts. Chemtrails have been redefined countless times over the years. Chemtrail believers atch on to all of these unquestioningly, apparently.
2: No credible science to back anything up
3: Denial/ignorance of current science that explains contrails
4: Culty aspects, such as not being allowed to question the current chemtrail paradigm (go and try it on geowatch or any other chemmie website).
5: Thought stopping ideas, such as 'anyone who openly displays doubt about the reality of chemtrails is either a troll or a paid government shill'.
6: Clear hoaxes being promoted as '100% proof of the reality of chemtrails', only to be debunked, forgotten and replaced by other '100% proof', which then gets debunked again and on and on it goes.
7: Guru's leading the movement who gain from it all financially.
8: No attempts to a public open debate. Instead anyone questioning the chemtrail theory is seen as a nuisance by many members of the chemtrail community.
9: Hypocrisy. When a government- or scientific document seems to embrace the chemtrail theory du jour, it's embraced. If it doesn't it's ignored/discarded/part of the conspiracy.

I could go on and on, but I hope it's pretty clear that to me the chemtrail movement has zero credibility



I feel that the contrail - chemtrail debate is a waste of time because it's too easy to obfuscate the issue ad infinitum.

And if we do have a shadow government that is working behind the scenes via secret, (black) projects, how in the world are ordinary people expected to find out what's really going on?


In the case of chemtrails that would be very easy. Sample a supposed chemtrail and see what's in it.

On the other hand if you fervently believe that persisting contrails can't exist and therefore have to be chemtrails, how are you going to find out what they really are?


This is why on other threads I've made an appeal to members to respect the dignity of our whistleblowers who are trying to communicate with the world about the spraying that is going on, endangering the health of all, worldwide!


Whistleblowers? What if they are huxters pretending to be whistleblowers for personal gain (ego/money/whatever floats their boat)? How do you find out? Should we automatically believe them because they claim to be whistleblowers?

I don't care about the dignity of those people. All I'm interested in is whether they're telling the truth. In the case of the 'whistleblowers' you've been putting forth it turned out that they're huxters. Too bad.. I can't seem to respect such people a whole lot.



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: payt69
In the case of the 'whistleblowers' you've been putting forth it turned out that they're huxters.

The only whistleblower I have put forth myself is AC Griffith, and he was (now deceased) in no way, shape, or form a "huxter."

For those unfamiliar, a link: www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots
The only whistleblower I have put forth myself is AC Griffith, and he was (now deceased) in no way, shape, or form a "huxter."

Other whistleblowers I did not originally bring up but I find credible and believe it is wrong to denigrate are Kristen Meghan and the anonymous whistleblower associated with Operation Indigo Skyfold.



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
This debate seems to be a difficult one to have. One side is based on science fact, the other, seems to either disregard the facts, or flat out doesn't believe them. In an effort to find out which of the two that is, I'd like to ask that anyone who disagrees with this science, offer an alternative explanation to what makes contrails persist. Keep in mind that all the science offered here is what has been taught to everyone in the field for decades.
Here is a start:
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

What is a contrail and how does it form?


To answer this question, lets first identify what a contrail is. A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.


Here is a page with some very specific information:
cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...

So again, if you believe in the chemtrail theory, that's fine. As long as you understand it's just a theory. But if the above cannot be dis proven, then the age old "just look up" "I can see them with my own eyes" is proof of nothing but reaffirming the fact that contrails exist.
Contrails:

(BTW-that thing sticking up is a driver, this pic was taken on the #1 hole a golf course.)
i believe you have misunderstood the entire debate based on the basic information you have presented. The arguement is not based on the factual existence of contrails. It is the difference between seeing a jet fly over head at decent altitude making a trail and having a crop duster fly over you all day long spraying large amounts of _______ at illegally low altitudes. I argue with you because my brother comes at me with your very same argument. Contrails are not chemtrails.



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: jbowenh

originally posted by: network dude
This debate seems to be a difficult one to have. One side is based on science fact, the other, seems to either disregard the facts, or flat out doesn't believe them. In an effort to find out which of the two that is, I'd like to ask that anyone who disagrees with this science, offer an alternative explanation to what makes contrails persist. Keep in mind that all the science offered here is what has been taught to everyone in the field for decades.
Here is a start:
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

What is a contrail and how does it form?


To answer this question, lets first identify what a contrail is. A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.


Here is a page with some very specific information:
cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...

So again, if you believe in the chemtrail theory, that's fine. As long as you understand it's just a theory. But if the above cannot be dis proven, then the age old "just look up" "I can see them with my own eyes" is proof of nothing but reaffirming the fact that contrails exist.
Contrails:

(BTW-that thing sticking up is a driver, this pic was taken on the #1 hole a golf course.)
i believe you have misunderstood the entire debate based on the basic information you have presented. The arguement is not based on the factual existence of contrails. It is the difference between seeing a jet fly over head at decent altitude making a trail and having a crop duster fly over you all day long spraying large amounts of _______ at illegally low altitudes. I argue with you because my brother comes at me with your very same argument. Contrails are not chemtrails.


So you have cropdusters flying at low altitude spraying you all day long? And they leave chemtrails? Make sure you make pictures of those planes and the supposed chemtrails as well. Can't wait to see what that looks like

edit on 8201520 by payt69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 11:18 PM
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I'll just let these guys from the Pentagon have their say.

Now you can say that they are Chemtrails, contrails, exhaust, dumped fuel....I don't really care. The fact is these guys are contemplating on dumping behavior modifying substances that they call 'vaccinations' on the populace that work on a genetic level. That, in my humble opinion, is unforgivable.



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 01:17 AM
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You have completely failed to check any facts and have been taken in by a hoax. In this age of information that, in my humble opinion, is unforgivable

a reply to: occrest



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: ConnectDots

The problem with your whistle blowers though is they also disagree with the science but good luck getting them to answer the OP

edit on 21-8-2015 by mrthumpy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 01:28 AM
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Finally some ACTUAL evidence! Trails being left by planes at altitudes that exclude the possibility of them being contrails. This is going to blow the thing wide open!

You did do your bit to save mankind and get decent videos didn't you?
a reply to: jbowenh



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 01:33 AM
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Eventually you're going to have to trust someone's research.

Nothing we have would work if all the science the "mainstream" sources published was bogus. TV's wouldn't work, engines wouldn't run, x-ray machines would take pictures.

None of the big, respected research institutes would have developed prestigious reputations unless the experiments they did provided quality, tangible results.

It's really tempting to want to believe in alternative theories and non-mainstream sources. Sometimes it feels like you are on the "inside" of a secret that even the most educated and respected scientists aren't.

It makes you feel smarter than the educated scientists, because you know the truth -- you know the secrets that they deny and are paid to ignore.

At some point the whole thing is just silly, as people with little to no understanding try to become armchair experts -- the whole time parroting pseudo science and claiming it as "fact".



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 01:55 AM
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a reply to: ConnectDots

This is where you have it backwards. Science fact is not accepted information, and it has nothing to do with "mainstream". Science fact is information which is proven to be correct by observation and experiment, repeatedly bringing a consistent result. "Accepted" information is what chemtrail believers think, or you yourself with your shadow government thoughts. You accept this idea despite there being nothing to factually support it, which you're free to do, but then make the mistake of thinking we operate the same way. We don't.

And don't even TRY to tslk to me about trusting the government etc, you know nothing of my history in that department.



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 02:10 AM
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Of course after i started doing my research . i found out the whole "chemtrail" thing was actually contrails. I can't say for certain their is absolutely no spraying going on....but if their were , wouldn't they be spraying it on them selfs and family?.



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 02:13 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

(BTW-that thing sticking up is a driver, this pic was taken on the #1 hole a golf course.)


Lies, it's clearly a UFO...on a stick!



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 02:15 AM
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originally posted by: Kapusta
Of course after i started doing my research . i found out the whole "chemtrail" thing was actually contrails. I can't say for certain their is absolutely no spraying going on....but if their were , wouldn't they be spraying it on them selfs and family?.


That's the little part chemtrailers always go silent on. Dispersion rates at such an elevation means you have literally zero control where the spray goes.



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 03:04 AM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Eventually you're going to have to trust someone's research.

Nothing we have would work if all the science the "mainstream" sources published was bogus. TV's wouldn't work, engines wouldn't run, x-ray machines would take pictures.

None of the big, respected research institutes would have developed prestigious reputations unless the experiments they did provided quality, tangible results.

It's really tempting to want to believe in alternative theories and non-mainstream sources. Sometimes it feels like you are on the "inside" of a secret that even the most educated and respected scientists aren't.

It makes you feel smarter than the educated scientists, because you know the truth -- you know the secrets that they deny and are paid to ignore.

At some point the whole thing is just silly, as people with little to no understanding try to become armchair experts -- the whole time parroting pseudo science and claiming it as "fact".


It does amuse me. People posting instantly from their handheld devices to websites hosted on servers around the world communicating using standardised internet protocols across hundreds of miles of fibre optic cabling connected via switches and routers directing vast amounts of data in milliseconds.

All that so they can tell the world that science is bogus and cannot be trusted.




posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 05:21 AM
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a reply to: ConnectDots

Thanks for your post. I am interested in getting people to understand contrails have nothing to do with geo-engineering in hopes that they will understand, so when and if geo-engineering is ever to be implemented, there will be enough people who know what it's about to ask questions and hopefully stop it from taking place. I use the broad term of goe-engineering for now, since most have little to no idea what it actually entails, but specifically SRM.

As has been said before, your whitsleblowers only bring their opinions to the discussion. No provable facts. So they in essence are no different than a poster on this site, other than you can see who they are. And believing someone because they tell you what you want to hear is silly. Ask any politician. It's what they do.



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 05:26 AM
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originally posted by: jbowenh

originally posted by: network dude
This debate seems to be a difficult one to have. One side is based on science fact, the other, seems to either disregard the facts, or flat out doesn't believe them. In an effort to find out which of the two that is, I'd like to ask that anyone who disagrees with this science, offer an alternative explanation to what makes contrails persist. Keep in mind that all the science offered here is what has been taught to everyone in the field for decades.
Here is a start:
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

What is a contrail and how does it form?


To answer this question, lets first identify what a contrail is. A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.


Here is a page with some very specific information:
cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...

So again, if you believe in the chemtrail theory, that's fine. As long as you understand it's just a theory. But if the above cannot be dis proven, then the age old "just look up" "I can see them with my own eyes" is proof of nothing but reaffirming the fact that contrails exist.
Contrails:

(BTW-that thing sticking up is a driver, this pic was taken on the #1 hole a golf course.)
i believe you have misunderstood the entire debate based on the basic information you have presented. The arguement is not based on the factual existence of contrails. It is the difference between seeing a jet fly over head at decent altitude making a trail and having a crop duster fly over you all day long spraying large amounts of _______ at illegally low altitudes. I argue with you because my brother comes at me with your very same argument. Contrails are not chemtrails.


I've been in this debate for about 8 years now. The chemtrail side claims that any trail lasting for more than "X" number of minutes is a chemtrail, because contrails can't persist. THAT is the conspiracy theory that I am trying to explain against. The pointing to a contrail in a picture and claiming that it's a chemtrail.

If you are discussing low altitude spraying, then you aren't in the chemtrail debate, you are being sprayed with something. Get a decent camera and find out what is happening.

And please, by all means, help explain this to others. Being afraid of clouds is sad, and people shouldn't be sad for such a silly reason.
edit on 21-8-2015 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus drinks blatz warm, and washes it down with a Milwaukees Best.



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: occrest

Did you watch that video? Please tell me at what point do they discuss spraying anyone with anything? I believe they were discussing mixing it with flu vaccine. And real or not, it's irrelevant to contrails. Please try to stay on topic.




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