Donald Trump’s immigration tab: $166 billion

a reply to: introvert
Yeah, who builds walls? That's cray-cray. What we need is a roof. A giant roof over both the US and Mexico, so people will stop crossing the border illegally just to get out of the rain.

How can a reasonably-aware person claim it impossible for 21st century America to build a wall? Ever been to a Chinese restaraunt and seen pictures of that long pile of stones? It's called the Great Wall. There is a modern version in the mid-East, but if I bring that one up you will almost certainly derail.

You might as well say it is impossible to build a machine that can wirelessly transfer messages from one person to another.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

$166Billion no problem just don't send any money or help to Iran and we got it covered.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

How does strengthening ICE equate to mass deporation?

a reply to: johnwick

Yup. The number 2 source of revenue for Mexico is money sent back by illegals working here. Many of them contribute very little to the American economy, and far too many are a net drain because they accept welfare monies.

Little known fact, there.

The take away points from this whole thread should be about how the wall prevents future influxes. Thats how you alleviate the problem in the future, old illegals and the baddies die off, but they arent immediately replaced. Thats the key to slow the growth factor just stop the inflow for a time, or at least drastically slow it down. The rest is all better addressed once you cut the flow off, then you can send some home and replace them with people who want to play by the rules.

Point 2 is that the Mexican government, can, should, and would, pay for and build this thing. That should be obvious just from the massive leverage we wield. They dont want to be reduced any further and stunt their economic growth that happens largely off our purse. They will build it or at least meet us somewhere on the costs.

a reply to: phishfriar47

Agreed, and add a third:

Deporting illegal aliens who have been convicted of crimes is not the same thing as forced mass deportation.

a reply to: phishfriar47

Walls do nothing but divide and grant the illusion of safety.

"But for as long as mankind has been building, we have been building walls: around cities, along borders, across disputed lands; to protect, keep out, demarcate and divide."

~Robert Frost

Welcome to prison planet...

Source

Almost a quarter of a century after the Iron Curtain came down, the walls are going up again. In steel and concrete, with watchtowers and barbed wire, mankind is building separation barriers at a rate perhaps unequalled in history - at least 6,000 miles in the last decade alone, according to a Guardian analysis.

Words of concern, walls of deterrence: migrants pushed into the sea

a reply to: phishfriar47

Its not ridiculous if this many people are talking about it as there are now

People are only talking about it because the media and politicians are making it an issue. Way to follow the herd guys.

Not everything has to be sane

I'll just leave that there for you to think about.

which they do because it isnt enforced enough to catch all of the ones that are cheating

Can you provide evidence that is occurring on a scale comparable to the Perm Res card issue? Of course it's possible that it is occurring, but if it's not, why is it part of the debate?

never mind MS-13 or La Raza right?

You do realize that La Raza is nothing like MS13? Those that talk about La Raza are usually misinformed. Many believe it is a racist terror group, but it's actually a political action group. You're not one of the nutters are you?

Are you really so dense

Why so rude?

to post that they can easily cheat to obtain these important Perm Res documents and not believe that its regular practice for them to lie and cheat on other equally important documents as outlined above in response 2?

Sure, they can cheat and lie for those as well. But I've not seen evidence of it happening on the same scale as Perm Res Cards. Perhaps you have that info?

But im ridiculous right?

If you want to build a wall, yes.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

How can a reasonably-aware person claim it impossible for 21st century America to build a wall?

I did not say it was impossible. I said it was not going to happen and it's ignorant to push to build a wall. They will just find another way in?

a reply to: Daedal

As I said earlier, walls do not only keep people out, but they also keep them in.

originally posted by: Daedal
a reply to: phishfriar47

Walls do nothing but divide and grant the illusion of safety.

"But for as long as mankind has been building, we have been building walls: around cities, along borders, across disputed lands; to protect, keep out, demarcate and divide."

~Robert Frost

Welcome to prison planet...

Source

Almost a quarter of a century after the Iron Curtain came down, the walls are going up again. In steel and concrete, with watchtowers and barbed wire, mankind is building separation barriers at a rate perhaps unequalled in history - at least 6,000 miles in the last decade alone, according to a Guardian analysis.

Words of concern, walls of deterrence: migrants pushed into the sea

There are far worse and imperceptible boundaries. This adds nothing of value to the discussion. You dont ban something because others dont know how to properly use it. That is silly

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: phishfriar47

Its not ridiculous if this many people are talking about it as there are now

People are only talking about it because the media and politicians are making it an issue. Way to follow the herd guys.

Not everything has to be sane

I'll just leave that there for you to think about.

which they do because it isnt enforced enough to catch all of the ones that are cheating

Can you provide evidence that is occurring on a scale comparable to the Perm Res card issue? Of course it's possible that it is occurring, but if it's not, why is it part of the debate?

never mind MS-13 or La Raza right?

You do realize that La Raza is nothing like MS13? Those that talk about La Raza are usually misinformed. Many believe it is a racist terror group, but it's actually a political action group. You're not one of the nutters are you?

Are you really so dense

Why so rude?

to post that they can easily cheat to obtain these important Perm Res documents and not believe that its regular practice for them to lie and cheat on other equally important documents as outlined above in response 2?

Sure, they can cheat and lie for those as well. But I've not seen evidence of it happening on the same scale as Perm Res Cards. Perhaps you have that info?

But im ridiculous right?

If you want to build a wall, yes.

People have been concerned with the border for years, your bandying around that its just in the news now shows that you are not really in touch. The topic has been a concern for citizens since forever, hence why every politician has to address the issue. The Donald just made it a little more popular to talk about it openly and a wall is an obvious solution. So again you are wrong, and thats about all I can take on trying to correct you. I have tried multiple times, even using your own words and sources, and then I have to still prove a point to you. Its obviously not getting through either by my examples or by using your own resources and applying a little logic. So I have to move on. I have a made up opinion about you and this topic and any logical person following along can easily see that you have contradicted yourself enough that I shouldnt have to keep coming back to correct you.

Have a great day, but I am through discussing this with you because I really dont care what you think about it or how you react to it. Its all hypothetical anyway until Donald gets in the big house.

a reply to: phishfriar47

People have been concerned with the border for years

That's true, but it only seems like there is ever a real push to do anything when the politicians and media make a big deal out of it. Like I said, follow the herd.

The Donald just made it a little more popular to talk about it openly and a wall is an obvious solution.

Yes, it's a solution. A terribly stupid one, but a solution just the same.

So again you are wrong, and thats about all I can take on trying to correct you.

You've proven nothing, other than your entire argument and "proof" relies on assumptions.

any logical person

That statement alone is a logical fallacy. Ironic, huh?

contradicted yourself enough that I shouldnt have to keep coming back to correct you.

I have not. You claims were ridiculous. You tried to assert that since 17% of the population is Hispanic, and they receive 10% of the benefits, that half of them were getting welfare. Remember the "10% is half of 17%" comment? If you did the math, you would find that out of a population of 319 million, there are 54.2 million Hispanics. An average of 47 million people received benefits in 2013 and HIspanics were 10%.

10% is 4.7 million. That's not even close to being half of the Hispanic population on welfare. Remember saying this?

about half of the Mexican population contributes correctly and doesnt need to be on assistance.

That means you believe the other half has to have assistance, but the numbers prove you wrong.

I didn't even want to address that issue because it became pretty obvious that were not even operating on the same level here. You didn't do your math and are just making things up as you go.

You were also wrong and didn't even know that forgery of Perm Res Cards is a big issue and is widely used to get illegals in to jobs that do not pay under the table. You entire argument centered around that issue and it's easily refuted. and you also claimed that you work and deal with this sort of stuff all the time. So either you are lying or are blind to what's going on around you.

All I've done is tried to have an open conversation, and you respond with arrogance, rudeness and horrible math. It's an insult to my intelligence for you to claim some sort of "victory" in this discussion when it was never a battle and your argument was based on assumptions, anecdotal nonsense and bad math that any jr high kid could have done.

a reply to: phishfriar47

In context my post is revelant. Want to build a wall, it helps to see the cause and effect relation other countries have experienced.

Any who...I'll leave you with these words, engrained on a statute sitting in a harbor; a place that received countless migrants.

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles.

From her beacon-hand glows world- welcome; her mild eyes command.

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she.

With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

~Emma Lazarus



That is America my friend.

I already posted this in one of the many damn those immigrant threads of ats.

Billions of dollars pass through the border, be it legal or illegal.

Cheap labor is in high demand for corporation and rich people.

So trump is only playing the game to get votes, nobody will ever build a wall to close the southern border, but plz dont stop with the fantasy partisan game.

originally posted by: Daedal
a reply to: phishfriar47

In context my post is revelant. Want to build a wall, it helps to see the cause and effect relation other countries have experienced.

Any who...I'll leave you with these words, engrained on a statute sitting in a harbor; a place that received countless migrants.

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles.

From her beacon-hand glows world- welcome; her mild eyes command.

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she.

With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

~Emma Lazarus

That is America my friend.

Yes, that's America, if you'd care to fill out the proper forms and go through Immigration to get started on the path to citizenship.

If that's not too much to ask.

originally posted by: FinalCountdown
If that's not too much to ask.

It is when not everyone gets to fill out an application.

a reply to: ~Lucidity
Trump will find a way to pay for it, he knows real estate, maybe he will do what one of those comedians said, "Buy Mexico and flip it and Sell it"

But really how much are we spending on illegals that are already here? besides numbers can be fixed to say anything

a reply to: 19KTankCommander

Yes. He like playing with other peoples' money. Why not ours?

So I guess you take this number, add up the cost for giving Illegals health care and welfare. Add the cost for the percentage of illegals in US prisons. Add the cost of lost taxes, because the notion that illegals pay huge amounts of taxes, is nonsense, since they are mainly paid under the table. Adjust it to reflect the income they bring to society. Subtract the differences, and you will probably find the said number listed is small compared to what we're losing.