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Interesting article, Dawkins shocked! His face cracks me up.

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posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:03 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
Sorry, you're the one claiming it isn't. The burden of proof is yours. Can't find a reliable source? I'm not surprised.

There is not an updated definition of the MES that includes HGT (epigenetics or evolutionary development for that matter) within its framework.

In case you do actually care about this rather than just attacking my credibility, here are just a few papers highlighting the shortcomings of the MES:

jeb.biologists.org...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.bilimfelsefedin.org...
rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org...
aeon.co...
arxiv.org...
www.interciencia.org...
guava.physics.uiuc.edu...


originally posted by: PhotonEffect
Genes are not heritable.

originally posted by: Astyanax
Well, well. And here you are posing as an expert on horizontal gene transfer, the new Darwinian synthesis and other evolution-related matters

Why did you take what I wrote out of context? What I said is correct. Perhaps you’re not clear on what heritability is and are confusing it with heredity. This is a common misconception.

Inheritance is quite different from heritability. The former applies to the transfer of genetic information from parent to offspring (vertically), the latter refers to the statistical analysis of a trait's underlying cause. Not all trait variation can be traced to genetic variation, and it is heritability that seeks to flush out this distinction. Also, it may help to realize that inheritance does not apply to the lateral transfer of genes. But this is just me being a poser.


Ladies and gentlemen of ATS, I trust you're paying attention.

Typical...

Look, no one should take my word for it, nor yours for that matter. If anyone is actually interested in the current state of affairs re: evolutionary theory, then by all means they should conduct their own research. I'm not trying to mislead anyone. I do the research and check my facts - double or triple times over. If you can show the ATS community where I'm incorrect using actual sources to back your claims rather than smug opinions, then please, by all means, the floor is yours and I'm ready to learn.




posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: Barcs

Barcs,

I'll be happy to answer these but I don't have the time right now. I hope you're able to find what you're looking for and post back.

Either way, I appreciate your efforts, and honest, civil discourse.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: PhotonEffect

The links you posted prove nothing except that evolutionary theory is a work in progress. Science, unlike religion, inscribes no dogmas. By the way, it is considered good manners to warn people when you link to a PDF download.

The word 'heritable' is not a technical term in biology. It refers to anything that can be passed on from parent to child or, in a legal sense, from a proprietor to his or her heirs.

You never fail to astonish me with your ability to memorise reams of peripheral material while carefully steering clear of any actual science. Are you still claiming that there is no such thing as natural selection?



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

While I do not share your personal belief given at the bottom of that post, I have to give you a star for the rest. Wel said.



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Sorry about the PDF thing. They open as regular pages on my computer. I didn't know.

You didn't read the links though . No surprise there. What they show is your claim that hgt is part of the synthesis is not correct. You were trying to call me out for saying something wrong. I wasn't.

As I said to Barcs you're right, science is not dogmatic. We can finally agree

You were the one who said genes are heritable In the context of horizontal transfer. I was correcting you. Heritability is a statistical measure. In other words it's math. That's technical isn't it?

And yeah I have my issues with natural selection. So do a number of scientists.

Are we done here?
edit on 30-8-2015 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2015 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: Barcs

Hey Barcs,
I'm not sure what your research has turned up thus far but here's a good article in nature that may help:
www.nature.com

It's long but worth the read when you have time.

Here's another extensive tutorial on what epigenetic variation is and how it works:
www.sciencedirect.com...

Hope this helps
edit on 30-8-2015 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)



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