The "UFOs" in the famous photo showing lights over Washington DC have been identified

a reply to: JadeStar

Aahh yes JS. I do recall looking at this once before and it may explain those visual sightings from the pilots and others on the those weekends.

I think it would take some serious work to get all the data (if indeed it was available) to prove or disprove that theory. Astronomy is certainly not an area I have any expertise in either. No - that lies in sitting on my arse and sending emails for the greater good (or bad depending on one's point of view!)

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: JadeStar

Aahh yes JS. I do recall looking at this once before and it may explain those visual sightings from the pilots and others on the those weekends.

I think it would take some serious work to get all the data (if indeed it was available) to prove or disprove that theory. Astronomy is certainly not an area I have any expertise in either. No - that lies in sitting on my arse and sending emails for the greater good (or bad depending on one's point of view!)

That's ok. I might do the research someday if I'm bored and find the time. (Both unlikely right now.)

a reply to: Arbitrageur

It seems to me he just did use his powers for good. The truth is good, right? Unless someone has another agenda besides truth.

My point exactly.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

It seems to me he just did use his powers for good. The truth is good, right? Unless someone has another agenda besides truth.

My point exactly.

a reply to: mirageman

It simply eliminates something that is often (mistakenly or misleadingly) used as evidence in the 1952 case. Admittedly it's a good illustration as well. But now we know that it is not a photo taken during the UFO flap over DC.

Wouldn't you say it's good we all know that?

Sure, mm. and I never thought it was.

The truth is always important, it's the only thing that matters, especially on the topic of aliens.
That is the only reason I'm here. To tell the truth.

But there are little truths, and there are big truths.

There are plenty of intelligent people on here busily focused on little truths;
"A tiny fraction of UFO reports are rocket launches."
Or in this case, "This picture is not from the same year as an actual UFO event."

These are little truths, and of course they matter.

Yet the big truths remain undiscussed in threads like this and many others. The big, important truths:

Alien beings with unfathomably advanced technologies and abilities have been here on Earth for at least seventy years and taking people against their will for purposes that remain unknown to us.

MM, you do a great job of reporting on published information from the past. You're highly intelligent and even meticulous, I know that and have nothing but respect for you and your posts. And on a personal note, I regard you as a kind person and even a friend, which I value greatly.
So don't think I'm being confrontational here, I'm certainly not.

But for some reason, I've yet to see you put 2 + 2 together.

It's as if you are great at History, but not so great at simple Arithmetic.
Aliens are here, abductions are real, there is a cover-up at high levels.
The time has come for intelligent people to move on to the important questions that come next.

That's how you could be using your powers for good.
I mean, seriously, a photo of nothing that is fifty years old instead of sixty?
A smart guy like you spinning his wheels on this small stuff may not be the greatest use of your time and effort.

I don't know, maybe being in England, you're physically too far removed from the sites of alien contact, the witnesses, and the abductees, which may limit your understanding of the enormity and the reality of alien encounters that have happened and continue to happen here in New York, for example.

Or maybe the historical record of published documents is just simply too limited to convey an accurate understanding of the alien situation.

I know, not everybody is lucky/unlucky enough to have first hand knowledge. But I don't think you have to be a first hand witness or an abductee to understand the reality of alien contact.

Keep up the good work, mm.

originally posted by: Scdfa


Aliens are here, abductions are real, there is a cover-up at high levels.
The time has come for intelligent people to move on to the important questions that come next.

Which is precisely why I refuse to participate in threads like these - (No offense arbitrageur).
I get an aura of intentional diversion towards what I feel are mundane topics like these instead of addressing more important questions. Of course I could be wrong and this is not to take a jab at any member here but it's just a gut feeling that I get. The cover up aspect of the phenomenon is fueling that feeling.

If everyone pretty much attests to some of these sightings and/or cases, (no matter how minute the number), being extraterrestrial in origin, then the next step is to see how a strong case of correlation can be made from this minute percentage to all other forms of information we have in terms of validating ET visitation. We now have a case for ET being here (out of that %). Well what do you know, we also have those who've been abducted by ET. Could the two possibly be connected, should we listen to what these people have to say? No doubt about it. Now add what whistleblowers, various military officials and members of the intelligence communities have to say to the mix and it gets interesting.

Or maybe the historical record of published documents is just simply too limited to convey an accurate understanding of the alien situation.

This is where you have to use your discernment and look beyond only published documents. When one combines ALL the elements involved, an amazing picture is then painted.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

I get an aura of intentional diversion towards what I feel are mundane topics like these instead of addressing more important questions. Of course I could be wrong and this is not to take a jab at any member here but it's just a gut feeling that I get. The cover up aspect of the phenomenon is fueling that feeling.

This photo represents the DC UFO flap of 1952. Its a photo of lens flares from 1965. No matter how many mundane threads are started on this very photo that identify it, it will always be associated with the DC event. Its a dishonest representation. The topic is littered with dishonesty. All I see anymore is dishonesty around here and people fighting to keep that dishonesty from being revealed. So who is doing the covering up? The people that first published the cropped version of this photo as a false representation? The people pointing out that its false? Or is it the people that want photos like this not to be "debunked" by "debunkers". I say get rid of the dishonesty first, then we can move forward.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

The topic is littered with dishonesty. All I see anymore is dishonesty around here and people fighting to keep that dishonesty from being revealed. So who is doing the covering up?

I don't need to take my vitamins today, I just got a huge dose of irony.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

I get an aura of intentional diversion towards what I feel are mundane topics like these instead of addressing more important questions. Of course I could be wrong and this is not to take a jab at any member here but it's just a gut feeling that I get.

Nor am I taking a jab at any particular member, certainly not at mirageman.
But you not alone in your gut feeling, and there's plenty of evidence to support what you're saying.
Your suspicion may be well-founded.

As one poster in this thread just said:

The topic is littered with dishonesty. All I see anymore is dishonesty around here and people fighting to keep that dishonesty from being revealed.

a reply to: Scdfa

I just got a huge dose of irony

I just got a huge dose of more dishonesty. I expect nothing less.

"No I want to stack the deck here". -Budd Hopkins

a reply to: Scdfa

Hello Scdfella my old chum,

Thank you for the constructive points. I can only answer as best I can from my own perspective.

I believe I said a few times (in fact we both agreed) that this photo was really a piece of minutiae in the 1952 DC case. There is better evidence to look at. But it has become synonymous with the story. Yes it had me fooled as well once. So it's nice to have a bit of closure on the story of the photo. I really didn't waste that much time on sending an email and posting the answers.

As regards the official documents in the public domain. Well they are 'official records' and their provenance is (usually) not in question. But it is interesting how some UK documents (not even UFO ones) have been classified for 70 years+. So there are still secrets out there.

And you know perhaps being in Britain does distance me from certain things.

We do have our own UFO cases over here in Europe. Not so much about abductions but some of our cases are really weird as well (Warminster, Bob Taylor's Encounter (Scotland), Mr. Janus wanting to meet Prince Philip etc.

However on an American dominated website there, quite naturally, tends to be more focus on stories from North America. That could be a disadvantage I agree. But it does give me a different perspective from here across the pond.

Despite many people studying this "phenomena" since the 1950s, what has any ufologist ever really given us as solid proof of alien life? None. These people have, sadly, never come up with a single iota of definite proof that we are being visited or ever have been visited by alien beings.They may start with 'good' intentions but eventually end up as "infotainers" on TV, radio and in print once they hit the brick wall, realizing that there is nothing absolutely concrete to put their finger on in the field. Yet they choose to perpetuate the UFO/alien conspiracy mythos to make a living out of it all.

Why? Because the general "UFO consumer" has been led to believe in spacemen from elsewhere come to save us (or probe us). They don't want to be told that it could be really 'alien' to us, not life as we know it, or perhaps even life as we don't know it.

It seems there is a deep reluctance to accept that any UFO case from the past may well be "doubtful as aliens" in the light of new evidence or even meticulous study of old evidence. There seems a real need to preserve all the classic cases as they were and the ufo believers opinion that they are real ETs in spaceships from planet XXX?

"Roswell" is the Ufological pillar that has to remain standing and cannot be seen to fall. Look at that slides fiasco where anyone could see it was a mummified child in a museum not an alien). Rendlesham (remember that was created in Britain and only starred Americans) is becoming the second pillar that cannot fall now. When the CIA claimed they were to blame for UFO cases in the 50s and 60s they were still accused of lies. The truth you (and even I) seek may not exist.

Real "Alien Disclosure" may not be the disclosure some dream it to be.

So I'd prefer to remain in the background -



So if you want my "opinion" then I think there really is a phenomenon at the bottom of it all. It is not ET in spaceships (although it could be perceived that way to those experiencing it). It is not something our science is advanced enough to explain even now. But it can interact with human consciousness.

It also gets mixed in with other elements of the paranormal and may also explain 'ghosts' and 'timeslips' as well. Nobody is screaming at the White House or UN to disclose what it knows about ghosts or timeslips. But alien life almost seems a given nowadays and the ET angle seems the most likely explanation.

However I believe it to be, at best, an over simplification.


What this phenomena really is I don't know. Others have tried for 70 years+ to find out and so far failed to find the definitive proof of what it is. Maybe you'll consider some of what I think (but can't prove) relates to you. Maybe you think it's total crap. It's only my opinion.


If you want people to see the BIG PICTURE then this is an open invitation to disclose your own experiences on ATS in your own thread. I think it might be one hell of a thread to stimulate debate.

Is the timing right for it?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: TrueMessiah

I get an aura of intentional diversion towards what I feel are mundane topics like these instead of addressing more important questions. Of course I could be wrong and this is not to take a jab at any member here but it's just a gut feeling that I get. The cover up aspect of the phenomenon is fueling that feeling.

This photo represents the DC UFO flap of 1952. Its a photo of lens flares from 1965. No matter how many mundane threads are started on this very photo that identify it, it will always be associated with the DC event. Its a dishonest representation. The topic is littered with dishonesty. All I see anymore is dishonesty around here and people fighting to keep that dishonesty from being revealed. So who is doing the covering up? The people that first published the cropped version of this photo as a false representation? The people pointing out that its false? Or is it the people that want photos like this not to be "debunked" by "debunkers". I say get rid of the dishonesty first, then we can move forward.

What I'm saying is screw the photo altogether.
My point was that something such as the would be misrepresentation of one photo doesn't disprove the existence of ETs on Earth so it shouldn't matter so much. So what if it's a lens flare? We have researchers, abductees, officials, and members of intelligence communities describing an alien presence utilizing advanced technologies to manipulate humanity. That's what I feel the focus should be on. Topics like this are a waste of time IMO. There are many more worthwhile avenues to take to get to the truth. That's ultimately what everyone is reaching for.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

What I'm saying is screw the photo altogether.

I'm with you on that. But every time I go to watch a UFO show and they display this photo as evidence or even as a misleading illustration...I have to wonder about what else they are misrepresenting. And its not just this one photo, its many other things represented as facts that aren't so. To me it seems like there is a consistent twisting of the truth and quite frankly, it really pisses me off.

My point was that something such as the would be misrepresentation of one photo doesn't disprove the existence of ETs on Earth so it shouldn't matter so much.

Absolutely. But the intention is not to disprove existence of ET...which is impossible anyway. The "photo" represents a façade and is used to persuade and mislead people for some reason. Why? Unfortunately what happens is when photos like this are exposed as fake, the events they are associated with are also considered not real. Is that the intention? There is much more to the DC events than this photo.

So what if it's a lens flare? We have researchers, abductees, officials, and members of intelligence communities describing an alien presence utilizing advanced technologies to manipulate humanity. That's what I feel the focus should be on. Topics like this are a waste of time IMO. There are many more worthwhile avenues to take to get to the truth. That's ultimately what everyone is reaching for.

If photos like these are used as evidence to promote ET by those researchers, something is wrong. If there is a "Mountain of evidence" for the existence of ET and that "mountain" contains information that is less then truthful, there is a problem especially if the people pushing this mountain know it contains factually misleading information. Yes, its one photo but lets have a look at all the others as well and there are plenty more photos like this out there. Yes there are other aspects to look at but they each have their equivalent to this photo.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

So what if it's a lens flare? We have researchers, abductees, officials, and members of intelligence communities describing an alien presence utilizing advanced technologies to manipulate humanity. That's what I feel the focus should be on. Topics like this are a waste of time IMO. There are many more worthwhile avenues to take to get to the truth. That's ultimately what everyone is reaching for.

What you say sounds like common sense to me.

But I wonder if everyone is ultimately reaching for an actual understanding of the alien situation.
And quite likely, re-bunking a photo of unknown origin from a magazine cover 50 years ago is an exercise that may not prove useful towards that end.

a reply to: mirageman

So if you want my "opinion" then I think there really is a phenomenon at the bottom of it all. It is not ET in spaceships (although it could be perceived that way to those experiencing it). It is not something our science is advanced enough to explain even now. But it can interact with human consciousness.

It also gets mixed in with other elements of the paranormal and may also explain 'ghosts' and 'timeslips' as well. Nobody is screaming at the White House or UN to disclose what it knows about ghosts or timeslips. But alien life almost seems a given nowadays and the ET angle seems the most likely explanation.

However I believe it to be, at best, an over simplification.

I agree to a degree. But unless they are from Earth, the term ET is still valid. Other dimensions, Afterlife, spirit realm, all fit the definition of Extraterrestrial. I prefer the term alien, which also covers a wide range of possibilities.

If you want people to see the BIG PICTURE then this is an open invitation to disclose your own experiences on ATS in your own thread. I think it might be one hell of a thread to stimulate debate.

Is the timing right for it?

The big picture is pretty simply conveyed:

Aliens in flying saucers are abducting people.

That's about it.
But what makes it 'the big picture' is actually understanding that.
Then one can think and act accordingly, finally taking the issue as seriously as it actually is.

Let's try an excersize: Just relax, take a few deep breaths, clear your thoughts
I want you to pretend you're an actor, and you land the lead role playing, say, me.
So put yourself in character, try to think like a man who has had alien contact.
Imagine what questions that would answer, think about the questions it would raise for you as well.

Actually think about it for a minute. Think how much you would want to tell people, and then think about the reactions you are going to get every time you do.
Think you would find discussing a fifty-year old magazine photo to be relevant? When no one is talking about the big questions?

I mean the BIG QUESTIONS:

What is their plan?
What role do they intend for us?
What happens if we disagree?
Will they simply leave us in peace if we tell them to?
Are we still in charge of our destiny? Our future?

And the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION: Can we stop them?

These are the discussions that matter when you realize it is real.
And yes, the time has come for me to share my account.

So when you play me on stage, don't over-emote. And try to portray my quiet dignity, like a young Gregory Peck.

a reply to: Scdfa

The big picture is pretty simply conveyed: Aliens in flying saucers are abducting people. That's about it.

So can I read that as "NO" you won't be writing up a thread with a bit more detail on the when and how you were abducted?

Pity. Are you writing a book then?

So when you play me on stage, don't over-emote. And try to portray my quiet dignity, like a young Gregory Peck.

You know that's not at all how it's going to happen. It'll be Bob De Niro not Peck.

Write the book. Then there'll be a movie as well

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
This is the famous photo from Flying Saucers magazine which purports to show UFOs from the 1952 UFO event:

However that's not really from the 1952 UFO event and those UFOs have been identified, they are lens flares:

We'll, welcome to reality! Real bit of new news there! It's been known for decades that those are "lens flare", I knew it back in the '60s! However, as some ATS tyro members have expressed, it's news to them.

a reply to: mirageman

I will be starting that thread now.

And I laughed out loud at the picture! Fantastic!

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: mirageman

I will be starting that thread now.

And I laughed out loud at the picture! Fantastic!

Oh come on! You called me creepy when I did that.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I'm sure he'll let you be in the Scdfellas movie. You can play "Tommy De Zeta".