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The Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Doesn't Make Sense

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posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 09:02 PM
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That's because the actual meaning is highly lost in translation. To try and make sense of it is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.




posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: pianoasis

Please, do enlighten us to the accurate translation and the true meaning that was lost.


edit on 17-8-2015 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
This idea doesn't make sense to me. Can someone make it make sense to me?

I've asked many Christians and Catholics. I'm sure it exist in other traditions as well so maybe there is actually an explanation that makes sense but I haven't heard it yet.

Does anyone else not get it?


The best explanation you'll get is that it's an expression of something that cannot be adequately understood by a human operating in three dimensions.

Put it this way.
If you tried to describe a basketball to a person that lived in two dimensions, how would you do it?
If you managed to throw a basketball to a two dimensional person, all they'd see is a circle - not an orb - and if you tried to explain the concept of an orb, could you do so in a way that would make sense to a person whose entire experience is two-dimensional?

The 2D human might say "that's ridiculous. What a crazy concept. That's entirely unbelievable" - but the reality is that their entire experience is two-dimensional, which prevents them from adequately understanding a 3D concept.

So it is with God.
Whatever the nature of the trinity, it is clearly expressed in the Bible that God is triune.
I'd suggest that we can't understand that nature because it's so utterly beyond our own experience.
This is why John says "when we see Him (that is, Jesus), we shall be made like Him, for we shall see Him as He is".

The implication there is that we can't see Him as He is now, because we're not like Him. We're limited to three dimensions - He isn't.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 09:41 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

They didn't want to consider Jesus a blasphemer, so they made him God instead to avoid the subject all together...

the problem is Jesus didn't consider himself God...

And the NT confirms that there is no trinity except two passages, and both were added after the fact by Trinitarian scribes...

one being 1 John 5:7, and the other Matthew 28:19




posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 10:05 PM
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A problem with the Trinity concept which has not yet been dealt with in this thread, is that there are SEVEN Spirits of God, not one. Adam was given one, the Spirit [breath - same word] of Life. The six others are listed by one of the OT prophets, just Google or Bing "seven spirits of God" and you will find it without too much trouble.

Seven Spirits + Father + Son = nine.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

lol
I pondered about this for days

it doesn't make sense to me either

to me one of them should have been soul

if spirit is God..

we in my language say in a name of father (I think that is god) and son (that I thought was Jesus) and holy spirit ..

and we don't distinguish between the word soul and spirit there is one word for it only) the fourth tap is Amen.

like where does the human come into it
edit on 17-8-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-8-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-8-2015 by Layaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:03 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
This idea doesn't make sense to me. Can someone make it make sense to me?

I've asked many Christians and Catholics. I'm sure it exist in other traditions as well so maybe there is actually an explanation that makes sense but I haven't heard it yet.

Does anyone else not get it?


It doesn't make sense because there is no trinity.

1st concept

God the Father is one.

Jesus - son of man because he was flesh
God is Spirit not flesh
Christ - son of God - the Light, the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ is 2 son of God and son of man, which is why he was given 2 names.

2nd concept

The Light (Holy Spirt - Christ - YHWH - Messiah - Shepherd) was God the Fathers first spoken words in Genesis.

Jesus is the firstborn of all creation
Jesus is the begging and the end of creation
The Light in genesis is Jesus the firstborn and the Word of God, which is what the scriptures testify about him.

The Koran says Jesus is the Word of God and a Spirit from him, the Holy Spirit. The Quran confirms what I am saying about Jesus Christ. Also Brahman the creator sent out the Lord of Love to be our internal guide according to the Upshands.

Jesus Christ is the Son, not equal to the Father. Yet he was the physical creator of Adam and therefore rightly called god of Adam, as we are also called god's because of our ability to create children and the influence we have in guiding them.

Jesus claimed no one but the Father was good, confirming that although he was perfect he was only doing what he was created to do, which was to obey his Father perfectly and be the ultimate example of self sacrifice to his brothers. To sacrifice the ego for the benefit of mankind.

3rd concept

Why it's important to understand they are 2 not 1?

The psychological of Love and Enlightenment.
1. God is Love
2. Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit who is the internal Shepard.

1. God is Love

The unenlightened are aware of Love. When it says God cannot be tempted. The scriptures proclaim that sinful man, although he is unenlightened still has the presence of Love within him. Therefore Love is not tempted to forsake sinful man. Love itself remains in man, because God is not tempted to forsake his children.

2. The Holy Spirit the Shepard

Those who seek perfection, the pursuit of enlightenment, are however given a helper.

Love itself does not tempt man. Meaning Love itself does not speak to us although it is known.

The Holy Spirit however does speak to us although most do not listen. The Holy Spirit is the voice of Love and Reason within you. This voice is guiding you to a perfect union with God/Love. In Hebrews it is confirmed that God speaks to us through his Son the Holy Spirit.

If you follow the Shepard, you will be born again, Nirvana, into a perfect union with the Love, who is the Father.

4th Concept

The Father is Love known to all.

By listening to the Holy Spirit you become baptized into a union with the Father and Son, loosing the desires of the world being born anew into a spiritual man whose desires are Love and Reason, which lead to peace, immortality and adoption as one enlightened into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Love is always with you. The Holy Spirit is a whisper to those who don't listen but completely fills those who remain obedient to Love/God.

The path to a perfect union with Love is through the Holy Spirit. This is why it is said that no man can go to the father except through the Light, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit.

5th Concept

Before Mary was given the name Jesus, many prophets spoke of the divine light, the divine internal voice, the Holy Spirit and the Egyptian text is where the first mention of the Krist/Christ is found.

The prophets that spoke of the internal divine light were all referring to the only one who claimed to be the Light. This is why all the religions sound the same, because all the prophets were enlightened men who were connected to Love by the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ.

All the texts that speak of a creator also speak of a Spirit of Love that was sent forth by the creator. The Egyptian texts, the Hindu texts, Zoroastrian, OT, NT, and Quran. In buddhism Nirvana is connection to the Light, and Plato taught the voice of virtue is the devine voice within.

6th Concept - Enlightenment

The separation of Love from the Shepard is divine psychology that leads to the path of enlightenment for those who pursue Love/God by listening to the internal voice of Love and Reason, the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ.

The Father created his Son to be our guiding Light to Himself/Love.

What I have presented is the only way to reconcile the voice of all the prophets that I mentioned above. If it doesn't make since then I would be happy to clarify any of the concepts above.


edit on 18-8-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:05 PM
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I think of it as the states of matter.
Solid.
Liquid.
Gas.
It's all the same thing, just in different forms.
JMHO



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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I googled this in my language

it says the bible doesn't mention holy trinity but if you want to use it it is not incorrect and it is basically God.

so I googled Holy spirit and it's says again it is behind our comprehension and it basically means God.

would be interesting what different nationality members have in their language



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

Think mind, body, and spirit.

Father = Awareness;Psyche;Soul;Concepts;Translator;Perceiver;The Head
Son = The Body;Image;Form;Word;Physicality;Matrix;Matter;Logos
Holy Ghost = Spirit;Will;Desire;Production;Force;Energy;The Life;The Breath

Think conception or concept production. Father, being that he is awareness itself, being that he is perception, and byway of perceiving his Spirit, He produces an image (of himself), an image of what God sees, which is the Son, or Body.

And they are not separable.

Like so:
These words are the image of my awareness,
my awareness is the conception of my spirit,
and my spirit is my will to reproduce what is good.

what is good = God : a godly seed : good conception : good awareness of the spirit : love.

Do you see it? These words are the image of my awareness of my will. All one thing. This entire post is the image of my spirit, as I see it - my will to reproduce good awareness of the spirit.

Jesus is the image of God or the godhead bodily: God's body.

Father is the translator, the one who sees, and speaks, "I am": God's awareness.

The Spirit is God's will.

You take in the body, and by the spirit therein, you conceive your awareness. (The image of your awareness, what you conceive of the spirit, is your body.) 1 thing. Awareness is conception of the spirit into the body, into images, or form.

And lastly, look at your own post and see that it is the image of your will as you saw it, and take that understanding over into everything - all things are conception or concept reproduction.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

Someone else may have touched on this already, but it is my understanding that the "trinity" as we know it today (father, son, holy spirit) exists because it is a way to explain away certain things in the bible, but it's never done a good job for me, especially since Jesus never claimed to be god, let alone even claimed to be his son. The only claimed physical relationship Jesus supposedly had with YHWH is that is was presumed that YHWH's "holy spirit" is what caused Mary to become prego with Jesus. One must really suspend reality, IMO, to believe that story to begin with, and then to accept that a human being was part god because of said spiritual insemination goes beyond what I can handle anymore (I believed in it all at one point...long ago...when I was a child and like fantastical stories).

The "holy spirit" itself is not really a being, but the force or, as I like to call it, the magic through YHWH did/does all of his stuff in the world. It's invisible, like Charles Xavier's powers, yet is claimed to be a separate thing, yet a part of YHWH at the same time.

So, the trinity is YHWH--who can to anything and everything and has always existed although he is claimed to have created everything--his magical powers that cause things to happen invisibly, and his artificially inseminated son Jesus who is a separate being in every way, yet is supposedly actually god and god's magical powers all at the same time.

BOOM! Holy Trinity.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: onequestion
This idea doesn't make sense to me. Can someone make it make sense to me?

I've asked many Christians and Catholics. I'm sure it exist in other traditions as well so maybe there is actually an explanation that makes sense but I haven't heard it yet.

Does anyone else not get it?


It is symbolic knowledge expressing the foundation of universal existence.

Father - Creator - Primordial Nature - Space - Original Element

Son - Creation - Extension of Primordial Nature - Matter - Formed Elements of Original Element

Holy Spirit - Primordial Mind - Will Power - Creative Nature

Though seemingly separate these 3 principles are the basis of existence and when combined into themselves you get the holy trinity and the realization of God. All things came from one source and all things return to that same source, this is what the pyramids and the triangle were created to represent in order to remind mankind where they came from and thus where they are going.

Though this explanation may seem simple there are vast amounts of symbolic representations of this same knowledge of the trinity. Seek it and you will find it, but foremost of all, seek it within yourself. Consider and observe the relationship between your Mind, your Thoughts, and your Feelings and seek to realize how they create your reality. Then once you discover your inner creator seek your outer creator in the world around you with deep contemplation and observation. You will be astonished at what you may come to realize.
edit on 18-8-2015 by EviLCHiMP because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

You don't get it because you have common sense.


The Trinity is a false doctrine, in the 4th century they closed the debate on the subject, if you brought it up after this it was considered heresy. I won't let some old men from the 4th century decide theology for me, I will read the bible and decide on my own. It seems to me that some Christians during those early formative years had such a hard time trying to give Jesus the proper respect and attention that it amounted to idolatry to them, and they looked for a theological solution to this enigma, combine that with a strong pagan influence that the church was not immune to, and you have a doctrine that was never proclaimed by Jesus or his apostles.

For me after decades of study I know Jesus Christ and Almighty God are separate entities united as one in purpose for the universe. So many Christians have a very hard time breaking free from centuries of theological culture, it's too emotional for them. But if they can cut out the emotional aspect and read the bible logically without the cognitive dissonance, they will see the truth of this matter. (John 8:32)
Jesus Christ had a beginning, the Almighty God did not.
On a side point, Jesus is his English earthly human name, he had a name before he came to earth when he lived in the heavenly spirit realm, read the book of Revelation and you will learn what that name is.
edit on 18-8-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

It amazes me how adamant modern Christians are about the trinity. Jesus being the firstborn definitely implies he had a begging, and since he never claimed to be equal to his father but only claimed he was the Son of God, you would think it would be easier for Christians to let go of this false dogma.

I've been called a heretic, apostate and had ex Christians friends pray that the Satan leave me for even suggesting that Jesus was the son not the father.

And suggesting that fallen is simply ignorance that can be overcome and not perpetual imperfection.

And God forbid you tell Christians what it clearly states in Acts that the Holy Spirit comes by faith and not ritual salvation through water baptism.

edit on 18-8-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73




It amazes me how adamant modern Christians are about the trinity.


They are so emotionally tied to that one doctrine, one Christian after I pointed out several scriptures that refute the Trinity said, "If I deny the trinity I can't be a Christian anymore".

In my experience to discover this truth on this topic you need these traits; intelligence, humility, and logic.
And a willingness to study the origins of the doctrine with a open mind.
Humility is huge when admitting you have a life long core belief that is wrong.
edit on 18-8-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: HappyObserver
Think of a cube. It is a solid single object. The cube is made up of three parts. The length. The width. The height. One would never say that the width is the height. Or the height is the length. They are separate. But together, they are one object. Each separate, but one.

a reply to: onequestion



Except that, a cube actually exists in a 3 dimensional reality. The "Trinity" is only 3 sides, and therefore, it can't exist in dimension but the 2nd. The Trinity is non-extant in our reality.

Now, the Jewish "God" was 4 fold, an actual structure that can exist in our dimension of reality, but, you know, the Jews don't accept Jesus as God, so there goes their "model" of the structure of the "WORD".




edit on 18-8-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

The Book of Acts is controversial for many still growing in their understanding. Paul's message isn't the easiest to make sense of. This dogma you mention, is it strictly the idea of Jesus divinity or your concept of the Holy Spirit? Pop culture often portrays water baptism as someone showing their commitment to the faith, I don't really see the baptism of fire recieve the same coverage...


edit on 18-8-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: spelling



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 06:57 PM
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My religious instruction in the Catholic Church was that god is beyond understanding, it is a mystery, and we don't need to know any more.

Of course that is contradicted every day by people telling us they know what god is, wants, etc........

But at het time it was "enough to believe" without needing to understand.

which is at least honest about the ignorance!!



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: onequestion



You can try this:



Taken from:

How To Explain (and Not Explain) The Trinity



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: IsidoreOfSeville
a reply to: onequestion



You can try this:



Taken from:

How To Explain (and Not Explain) The Trinity


That is a 4 fold expression, not a 3 fold expression of God. What you've shown is the YHVH, the Tetragram formula, not the Trinity.




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