Does enlightenment require any specific action (or absence thereof)?

I say no, in Gospel of Thomas, Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

If you're so interested, just go for it. Don't sit around wondering what people have said and getting obsessed with concepts. It's only you that can do it, and you're probably not going to want to cling to any concepts to do that. Nobody is going to lead you to that place and take that final step, only you can do that. Yes, you can be led there, but at some point you have to take that final step, with no advice, no guidance, nothing but your own ability. If you can't accept that now, you should maybe start getting used to it if you're really planning on waking up.

I'm being harsh, I know that, but waking up isn't going to be easy, not for any of us (unless we manage to be massive flukes.)

originally posted by: preludefanguy
a reply to: Trachel

the buddha was called the self awoken one

there was no mystical transference of attainment from the spirits

it is beyond all phenomenal states, including a neurological state or an exchange of chemistry in the body systems; these might be states attained in meditation, but they are not liberation

He was called that because he found enlightenment without having a real corporeal teacher who'd already attained that state.

originally posted by: Profusion

Consider the "Illuminati" for example. They claim to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Many popes throughout history, many cults and secret societies throughout history, many countries throughout history have claimed to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Is it possible to be enlightened while committing horrendous acts?

I think illuminati/luciferianism/whatever is knowledge without love.

I think enlightenment is the realization of the simple truth of Being, and then once this occurs it all makes sense. This is when we renounce this world, or "drop our nets" to integrate into that higher form of Thought, which does not require any sort of physical sustenance or comfort. This is why the Son of Man (The enlightened man) has no place to lay his head; it is a non-physical state of bliss and, more importantly, Being, or "life". Once you get there you realize that your life has pretty much been a day-dream, and then you enter "life". I've experienced this, but adulterous behavior plunged my mind back to the fallen frequency and I've been trying to get back ever since.

In my experience the only action you must do is love, whereas everything else should be simplified to non-action.

I don't really know what enlightenment is. I get the feeling it's a process of discovering things that should be obvious, but take a while to clearly register in your thought process. Like one discovery is the now moment and understand the concept of it. Little chunks of information that you assimilate into your knowledge, I don't know, I'm sure there's more to it, but I don't thInk it requires you to do good deeds. Can't hurt though to do good deeds

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
I don't really know what enlightenment is. I get the feeling it's a process of discovering things that should be obvious, but take a while to clearly register in your thought process.

It is more like discovering that there are no things - that there is only what is happening - which is not a thing. And realizing that thoughts are not 'your' thoughts and that thoughts can never speak about you.

a reply to: Itisnowagain isn't that all part of the realisation process you don't just learn that it takes a bit of contemplation to realise such s thing

a reply to: Profusion

I think this is a crucial question. Consider the "Illuminati" for example. They claim to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Many popes throughout history, many cults and secret societies throughout history, many countries throughout history have claimed to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Is it possible to be enlightened while committing horrendous acts? I ask that question because I think that many people would claim that enlightened people would be incapable of committing horrendous acts. Do you agree?

A person can know what 'enlightenment' means without actually being enlightened.

I feel that the truly enlightened would be incapable, or rather unwilling, to act in a horrendous manner. There would be absolutely no need to treat another person in a negative way. How can a person be enlightened and yet still mistreat another..

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. An enlightened person who mistreats another would be like mistreating themselves.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Maybe not good deeds, but certainly not bad. I agree with you on the 'obvious' thoughts.

believe in yourself...don't let these guys try and guilt you into some type of amoral personal sin....they don't have all the answers, but, they expect you to believe that THEIR OWN wisdom, is more than you would ever have.....that's a load of BS

a reply to: jimmyx

Most people could have wisdom, doesn't mean most people are wise.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
I don't really know what enlightenment is. I get the feeling it's a process of discovering things that should be obvious, but take a while to clearly register in your thought process.

It is more like discovering that there are no things - that there is only what is happening - which is not a thing. And realizing that thoughts are not 'your' thoughts and that thoughts can never speak about you.

How is this accomplished without a perspective or "point of view" (ego based) grounded in ones own experiences to deny as not being 'your own thoughts'?

think
realize
aspire

a reply to: vethumanbeing
Thought just appears - watch closely and notice that you cannot possibly know what thought will arise next.
You are not doing thought - you are aware of thought.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thought just appears - watch closely and notice that you cannot possibly know what thought will arise next.

Some people can.
It's called having focus/concentration/self-control.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thought just appears - watch closely and notice that you cannot possibly know what thought will arise next.

Some people can.
It's called having focus/concentration/self-control.

Thought arises and another thought says 'I thought that'. 'I' is a thought.
It is an illusion that there is a 'you' that is doing thought - listen to the video.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thought just appears - watch closely and notice that you cannot possibly know what thought will arise next.

Some people can.
It's called having focus/concentration/self-control.

The true self can only be AWARE of what is arising.
Here is what might arise when you realize that what you really are is just aware.

You cannot control anything - you are just seeing the show.
If what is showing, is stories about how life could be better, stories about 'me in time', stories and ideas about how to make the world a better place - then that is what is filling the screen of awareness - but if it is realized that what I really am is the entire screen - the stories tend to drop away and what is here and now can be seen in it's true glory. Then there is clear seeing, clear hearing of what there really is - without the veil.

Well.... The only reason enlightend people qould be incapable is because they see the futility of committing a horrendous act since it has no real use other that causing unnecessary ripples through the energy that makes us up.

Ironically enlightendment takes nothing more than itself. You can neither will yourself to it nor obtain it by doing nothing........... Once you understand that or is enlightened you can never take it away again, but you can still choose to be part of this game of life in the same manner as everyone else here.
You will also completely understand that no man or woman is worth more than anyone else, instead you will most likely find it amusing to observ the role they have all put on themselves to play.
You can choose to disrupt the game or enforce it.

One of the most funny things I find about this quest for enlightenment is that all those people who kneel before God.... Allah.... Mary..... Pratice yoga..... They say they do so to find peace, and the funny thing is that bowing down to those deities and practicing something like yoga is actually the same as repeating to themselves "I dont have peace, give me peace..... I dont have peace give me peace."
The good old finger pointing at the moon syndrome. You dont see that you already have what you seek, because you are too much in love with the game of chasing it, pretending you dont have it.

Its a all a way of putting of the so called enlightenment, because instinctively they all know the prize is hyped up to be more than it is, all though it is quite a "prize" once you obtain it.

Its easier to pretend to be part of something other worldly and godlike, than to accept and understand that life just is. But trust me... If you only experience it once you too will laugh and be amused by all these outrageous scriptures that people wash their brains with.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thought just appears - watch closely and notice that you cannot possibly know what thought will arise next.

Some people can.
It's called having focus/concentration/self-control.

The true self can only be AWARE of what is arising.
Here is what might arise when you realize that what you really are is just aware.

You cannot control anything - you are just seeing the show.
If what is showing, is stories about how life could be better, stories about 'me in time', stories and ideas about how to make the world a better place - then that is what is filling the screen of awareness - but if it is realized that what I really am is the entire screen - the stories tend to drop away and what is here and now can be seen in it's true glory. Then there is clear seeing, clear hearing of what there really is - without the veil.

This is so great..... I love that. Pretty much the same way I burst out when it came about. The challenge is that its so hard to take back and put into words because we actually dont have the vocabulary to explain this to other people.

Enlightenment as a word doesnt even hold meaning until you have had that feeling, because it encompasses so much at the same time.
All and nothing but even that wouldnt cover its true meaning.

originally posted by: RobinB022
a reply to: Profusion

I think this is a crucial question. Consider the "Illuminati" for example. They claim to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Many popes throughout history, many cults and secret societies throughout history, many countries throughout history have claimed to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Is it possible to be enlightened while committing horrendous acts? I ask that question because I think that many people would claim that enlightened people would be incapable of committing horrendous acts. Do you agree?

A person can know what 'enlightenment' means without actually being enlightened.

I feel that the truly enlightened would be incapable, or rather unwilling, to act in a horrendous manner. There would be absolutely no need to treat another person in a negative way. How can a person be enlightened and yet still mistreat another..

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. An enlightened person who mistreats another would be like mistreating themselves.

I have to disgress.... You dont know till you know.... You might think you know, but I remember I thought I knew only to realise that I really didnt until it happened.

That would also explain why people could claim to be enlightened but still commit acts of cruelty. Thinking you are something you are not could actually cause more damage and make you do stuff because you think its all just part of the game and therefore ok, but one of the first things you realise when it happens is that since it all a show why not just enjoy it and do good? Since the whole show is you, you'd just be hurting yourself.