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Does enlightenment require any specific action (or absence thereof)?

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posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

Agree with you completely.

I made a post in this thread detailing an essential framework of what it takes to start striving towards enlightenment.

I listed a few books for beginners and a general outline of what needs be done.

Enlightenment is a real neurological and spiritual state. Attaining it is possible.

Tons of individuals accomplished it in a single lifetime. You (the collective you) can too!




posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

I consider myself to have gone through enlightenment after I discovered in full, who I am, and my place in the universe. For me it came with a very dramatic inner experience, but I suppose it doesn't have to be so dramatic.

For me, among the final steps was to face all of my fears. So, I think facing one's fears is a part of enlightenment. But I think that is part of the larger step of discovering one's own self. And to do that, one must above all be honest about their own values with their self, to decide what they really want in life.

If you value something in a way that other people disagree with, that is too bad for them, because it is your choice about who you will live for, how you will live, and why you will live. Instead of allowing society to define you, instead of allowing your friends and family to define you, simply discover your true self as God made you (or if you don't believe in God, how physics/evolution/etc made you).

I am in full agreement that one's actions, not one's words, decides their values. Today I heard about someone who claimed to have a high moral standard, but they actually committed theft from their friends. They don't actually believe in property rights. The believe in taking as much as they can, in any way they can, when it benefits them to do so. However, that does nothing to suggest enlightenment cannot be achieved by Christians, so I'm not drawing the connections with the Bible quote you presented.

One's actions define one's principles, ones priorities, and one's values. But, that is often masked by someone who unwittingly lives other people's values.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: theMediator

I am not being a jerk to you. I don't even know you and am no where near you. I simply stated another more likely option, and you took it from there by the powers of your imagination.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: Trachel

Meditation is for one who closes his eyes to the world, or who seeks the life in a cave or a monestary, doing what he does best—staring at the back of his eyelids and exercising the only muscle that matters to him.

Enlightenment is simply a claim to authority.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I simply stated another more likely option, and you took it from there by the powers of your imagination.

Petty lies is all I see in your response. No you said it, and thought of it, in a negative and insulting way.

Oh and you just haaave to keep being on your high horse.

I've seen you around...I know your type.

So sure, blame it on me. It was all my imagination...



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: theMediator

You're reading too much into it, I think.

You've implied I'm petty, on a high-horse, and a liar. I have implied nothing about you. I don't even know you, or your "type". You're multiplying zeros by zeros, and getting nowhere.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 11:51 PM
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From Murgatroid


I know people who meditate for days but once they come out of it, they are right back to being miserable... Another HUGE red flag: Demons communicate through meditation, that is why it is also used in Satanism so effectively. Below is a quote from another post explaining how to summon demons that confirms this:


So.. I'm guess you know monks? Because that is the only people who have the time and will to meditate for days...
Everything in your post yells ignorance or lack of knowledge. Are you just trolling or are you really some naive bible-thumping dummy?
edit on 18-8-2015 by blueman12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:02 AM
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originally posted by: Trachel

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel




This isn't true.


It is. Someone who claims they are enlightened do so because they think they are enlightened. They aren't bestowed the honor. Enlightenment is always self-proclaimed.


Actually enlightenment is bestowed by higher powers unto those who deserve it.

Buddha didn't magically wake up one morning and call himself enlightened--he received that mantle from spirits.

Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu and all the famous sages and saints (and bodhisattvas and arhats) all experienced the same.

Enlightenment is generally bestowed during periods of prolonged meditation--and that occurs because during meditation your body goes into a sleep-like trance and the cerebrospinal fluid (which contains copious amounts of the neurotransmitter D-M-T floods into the brain facilitating contact with spirit realms).

Meditation is a self-induced psychedelic trance where you product a D-M-T burst in your brain.

And enlightenment is a title granted you by others.

Try meditating for a decade or two (and following other Taoist/Buddhist principles... you'll see what I'm on about).


starred, for an educated comment. i have no idea why many humans seem to speak as though they know all about nothing when its obvious they know nothing. its like going for car advice from your local chiropractor.. who's never owned a car and rides a bicycle. but i can tell you this. one thing an enlightened person wouldve had to graduate out of is exactly this. opinionating and guiding people with opinions on something which you know nothing about. its not wise in any way to do this. i see such comments and i cant help but facepalm at these failures. the blind leading the blind. them and all their blind friends flock together to assert their blindness lol

second line.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel

Meditation is for one who closes his eyes to the world, or who seeks the life in a cave or a monestary, doing what he does best—staring at the back of his eyelids and exercising the only muscle that matters to him.

Enlightenment is simply a claim to authority.


Are you trolling? Take away enlightenment, belief systems, and any other abstract concepts attached to meditation and you're left with many people who have benefited from it. Damn dude, your post was dumb. Just a bucket of dumb.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:44 AM
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namu amida butsu

enlightenment requires no action



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel

Meditation is for one who closes his eyes to the world, or who seeks the life in a cave or a monestary, doing what he does best—staring at the back of his eyelids and exercising the only muscle that matters to him.

Enlightenment is simply a claim to authority.


I mean, this is an awesome perspective and all...until you actually have significant experience meditating and understand what it accomplishes.

Meditation dissolves unnecessary synaptic structures in the mind. It shuts down that biokinetic quantum supercomputer between your ears and allows the spirit within the shell to ascend and regain control over the body.

Meditation is mindscience--domination over the only muscle that really does matter... the mind. For once the mind grows sharp enough it becomes a blade that can cut in any direction.

And meditation isn't for those who seek life in a monastery. Taoist and Buddhist texts (see e.g. The Ten Ox Herding Pictures) specifically point out the goal of meditation is to be in the world without being compelled by the world. It's attaining an equanimity and freedom of consciousness to which we should all strive.

And again, Enlightenment is not a claim to authority. Enlightenment is a mantle bestowed by some of the highest spiritual authorities in any reality.

Meditate for twenty years. Refine your morality ceaselessly. Conserve your energy through abstinence so you have enough biokinetic energy in reserve to reshape the neural structure of the brain.

Sounds silly if you haven't experienced those things firsthand. It's certainly a leap of faith starting that kind of practice.

But you'll believe in it fast once you experience the benefits for yourself.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

Here I will misquote you again:


"Yeah, you're right, I'm a douche..."


Touche'



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: blueman12

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel

Meditation is for one who closes his eyes to the world, or who seeks the life in a cave or a monestary, doing what he does best—staring at the back of his eyelids and exercising the only muscle that matters to him.

Enlightenment is simply a claim to authority.


Are you trolling? Take away enlightenment, belief systems, and any other abstract concepts attached to meditation and you're left with many people who have benefited from it. Damn dude, your post was dumb. Just a bucket of dumb.


People benefit from sleep or long walks at the beach. They also benefit from money and cosmetics. Who cares? Your post is a carton of lazy.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Trachel

The only thing meditators are getting better at is meditating—sitting and staring at the back of their eyelids. It's all self-gratifying. It's romantic.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel

The only thing meditators are getting better at is meditating—sitting and staring at the back of their eyelids. It's all self-gratifying. It's romantic.


Not at all. The point of meditation is to cultivate a calm state of mind that you carry forward and maintain within the world.

Research the effects of meditation on the brain. There's a wealth of data proving the point.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: Trachel

I have researched it. Yes there are noticeable effects on the brain. But one also has noticeable positive effects in his right arm if he continually plays with himself, but that does not prove he gets better at anything other than playing with himself.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel

I have researched it. Yes there are noticeable effects on the brain. But one also has noticeable positive effects in his right arm if he continually plays with himself, but that does not prove he gets better at anything other than playing with himself.


That's true... by meditating you get better at manifesting and maintaining that meditative state.

Then the question becomes: what benefits does that meditative state confer?

Calm, equanimity, centerness, and poise are only the superficial advantages of meditation. The real advantages manifest later when you gain firsthand experience of that old Buddhist koan: "What is it that thinks?"

Once you know that--once you grow so adapt at detaching from thoughts that the brain ceases compel your actions--you gain an unparalleled freedom of action. You can start manifesting true free will.

Meditation is the key towards unlocking that state. It's the crux technique that releases the spirit from the bonds of its cognitive prison.

And it lets you completely remap and restructure the neural network of the brain at your behest.

So yeah, to an outsider it might look like someone meditating is doing nothing more than staring at eyelids.

But what I'm actually doing is delving my own psyche and reprogramming my entire mind.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: Trachel


That's true... by meditating you get better at manifesting and maintaining that meditative state.

Then the question becomes: what benefits does that meditative state confer?

Calm, equanimity, centerness, and poise are only the superficial advantages of meditation. The real advantages manifest later when you gain firsthand experience of that old Buddhist koan: "What is it that thinks?"

Once you know that--once you grow so adapt at detaching from thoughts that the brain ceases compel your actions--you gain an unparalleled freedom of action. You can start manifesting true free will.

Meditation is the key towards unlocking that state. It's the crux technique that releases the spirit from the bonds of its cognitive prison.

And it lets you completely remap and restructure the neural network of the brain at your behest.

So yeah, to an outsider it might look like someone meditating is doing nothing more than staring at eyelids.

But what I'm actually doing is delving my own psyche and reprogramming my entire mind.


20 years of meditation and this is its fruits?

Anything and everything changes the neural network of the brain, for better or worse.

To an insider, so embedded in his ways, yes, it feels that something beneficial is being accomplished, but by any other yardstick meditation appears quite fruitless beyond self-gratification. Many people have meditated, and I’m trying to think of one who has left behind anything more than a simple self-help guide to happiness, or techniques of relaxation and stress-relief, which are a dime a dozen in the book store. They have pills that can accomplish more in a shorter amount of time.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
You my friend are keeping others from finding the truth spouting this in public...

Check that mirror, objects are closer than they appear...

I really enjoy all your posts on ATS about your faith.

Ever consider modifying your behavior to match them?

At least follow the teachings if you're going to claim the title.


“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

...The second is exactly like it: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' ~ Matthew 22:39

Christians are Hypocritical. We are held to a high standard by the world, and as soon as our words and actions don’t line up, it’s easy to say all Christians are fake. One mistake is all it takes for Christians to be considered hypocrites.

6 Reasons Why People Don’t Like Christians

Another type of email that we keep receiving on a very regular basis is the exact title of this article – why do some Christians behave so badly? Many of these types of bad-behaving Christians are also chasing many nonbelievers away from the Lord instead of leading them to Him as a result of them making very bad representatives for our Lord.

Many nonbelievers are wrongly judging our God by our actions, words, and deeds – and when they see some Christians behaving very badly in their marriages, in their work places, and in their social environments, they will shy away from checking what our faith is really all about. And this is all due to the hypocritical bad behavior of so many Christians who are not being properly sanctified by the Lord.

Why Do Some Christians Behave So Badly?



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

If you follow all of my posts on faith, you will find the answer within them...

You know me according to your quotes, should be self-explanatory really...

Who ever said being Christian is acting Christ like? BELIEF in Jesus CHRIST (hint Christian) as my lord and savior? Sure, but I never claimed to be "Christ Like" as you put it...Nor would I ever!

I would love to see where in my faith I can't quote someone calling themselves a douche as well....(misquoted or not)

And you are exactly that for spouting nonsense about witches, black magic and much more....I stand behind my misquotes of you...

By the way, still love all my ATS family....Please don't put words into my mouth though, I never said anything to the tune of what you said above.
edit on 8/19/2015 by Chrisfishenstein because: (no reason given)


ETA: So, why does everyone assume because someone has a belief they are a hardcore Christian? You are always trying to get me to "act this way" or "do this or that" based on my faith....Why is it always an extreme? You do know people can believe without all the other stuff that accompanies an extreme Christian, right? If you want to battle this statement, please feel free but all religion is NOT the same, nor the extremism apparently you are looking for out of me..
edit on 8/19/2015 by Chrisfishenstein because: (no reason given)



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