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Does enlightenment require any specific action (or absence thereof)?

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posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Profusion




Consider the "Illuminati" for example. They claim to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts.


Many use the name Illuminati yet are fake.
The true intent of The Illuminati is the preservation and well being of All the Human Race

However to answer your question
Yes enlightenment requires action or it is merely knowledge
Contemplating one's naval helps no one
To put one's knowledge to assist others is enlightened
Why? Because we are all connected and share the same planet


edit on 17-8-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo




posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
So you studied the lives of sorcerer, occult grand master and a witch.....You my friend are keeping others from finding the truth spouting this in public...

You misquoted me 5 different times...

Making false accusations about other believers while misquoting them doesn't do a whole lot for ones credibility.

Last time I checked, faith and belief in Jesus Christ includes speaking the truth and treating others with the same kind of respect that you would like to see from others as well.

Here's what I really said BTW:


Best way I have found to learn about this is by studying the lives of those who have seen and experienced firsthand both the counterfeit and the genuine. Three good examples:

Ex-sorcerer Ian Clayton, former occult Grand Master Lyke Uzorma, ex-witch Ana Mendez



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Enlightenment is a state of mind a way of viewing the world, the actions you take are part of it, but it's mostly in seeing how things fit together.

Many people have achieved what the Buddhists consider enlightenment and by all accounts it's actually pretty depressing to understand how everything fits together, this is made doubly true because those who have reached it see the world in an entirely different manner from how the majority do, and it becomes maddening to watch people perform in a way that they know is contrary to how things truly work. It's like being a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.

To answer your question in the framework of Christianity is much the same. If you view the world by that enlightened perspective you'll take actions consistent with that view, some of which may be seen by others as good but other actions may be seen as bad.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

Did I misquote you too?



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid
originally posted by: MystikMushroom

MystikMushroom: Mediation shrinks your amygdala, a part of your brain that controls your fear and flight/fight response.



Muratroid: Fear in itself is not a bad thing...In fact, fear can have a very positive aspect when it is used to warn us of real dangers.

Perhaps when imprisoned and displayed (as entertainment value): chased and eaten by jaguars or lions while confined in the Roman Colosseum 250AD; crowds roaring. Meditation is a tool is all; to quiet the mind and listen to your higher selves so desperately trying to communicate with you. I find it interesting that you name your own higher selves potential demons; so mistrusting of YOUR OWN soul group, as they are there to help you in this incarnation. What must they be thinking regarding your own enlightenment progress?
edit on 17-8-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

No you didn't misquote me

Accusing someone else of trying to employ scare tactics is actually pretty sad though.

Now if I were guilty of this, I would probably say: "Yeah, you're right, I'm a douche..."

That's just how I roll.

Here's the bottom line: were both on the same side, were not enemies.

While there probably are some here on ATS that love to deceive and lie, I am not one of them.

I write here for one reason and one reason I only: I love people...



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Taoists in particular believe enlightenment depends upon the cultivate of virtue.

Virtue comes in two general flavors depending on the circumstances of the good deed:

Apparent Virtue arises when others know who to thank for the act.

Hidden Virtue occurs when you commit the deed in secret.

The difference between the two is the difference between handing someone a quarter for their parking meter and putting that same quarter into the meter when no one is looking.

Any type of virtue can bring you towards enlightenment. Hidden Virtue will take you there the fastest.

Go pick up trash in a neighborhood park. Go help clean up your planet without promise of thanks or reward. Build some Hidden Virtue today!



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 09:41 PM
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The only requirement for enlightenment is to call oneself enlightened.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:46 PM
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originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: _damon

Would enlightenment be a once in the life time process of sorts, that once something is met, or saying the right incantations, makes one enlightened? Like how when a soul in Buddhism complete, it just jumps out of the program and says done, and end up being bored like the Devas.

Or is it an never ending journey of accumulating experiences, breaking them down, and rebuilt for better for food for thoughts, understandings and much more expansive point of views, as well as being highly attuned with who one is, and embodying the virtues?


Both.

you end up being bored like the devas.. AND.. you can keep going and evolving further. there are more than 7 chakras.

the boredom stems from no longer being confused by life's mysteries. in a sense for those who like a challenge, that's what keeps the spice of life.. not knowing and trying to figure it out. like the say, the hunt is better than the catch. after you see everything for what it really is, all materialism is reduced to naught. you could care less for gold, diamonds, big house and car. all seem like futile efforts. though you recognize the need to make money to survive in this capitalist world. you really dont care for it or like it other than for what necessities it can afford you. most of the ambitions of the materialist world seem trivial. and the want to leave and exist fully in spirit can be overwhelming at times. especially when you look around you and see humans behaving the way they do with eachother.

sure, you can entertain yourself by uncovering further mysteries and elevating through more chakras, but you have an eternity to do that. you can keep evolving even after you're dead. so the question begs..

what the hell am i doing here?


in my case... only one thing. theres only one reason im still on earth and havent ascended out of here. theres only one reason why i havent buggered off.

Teaching

teaching is the only thing that seems to be worthwhile. helping others to find the path and the true light of salvation. there is nothing else that positively can convince me to stay other than the thought that i may reach just one more person before i leave this place. one more person may find the path and make it out. every day.. just one more person.

and that's what keeps me going. i have no other purpose here the way i see it. i cant feel excitement for anything here. only the prospect that tomorrow, when someone reads my comments, it will shine a light for them and that when we die i will meet many people who say to me.. "it is your words that really helped break me out... thank you". that's all.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The only requirement for enlightenment is to call oneself enlightened.


This isn't true.

Enlightenment is nothing more than a neurological state that anyone can reach with enough concerted effort towards meditation and cultivating a solidity of mind.

It's a physiological evolution of the neural structure in the brain--not some nebulous ideal that can't be grasped or explained.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: Trachel

I think he was commenting about those who call themselves "Enlightened" out of pride.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: Trachel




This isn't true.


It is. Someone who claims they are enlightened do so because they think they are enlightened. They aren't bestowed the honor. Enlightenment is always self-proclaimed.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
They aren't bestowed the honor. Enlightenment is always self-proclaimed.


Maybe I am enlightened, I do feel like it...
But I'm not going to boast around and saying that I am because those that do that seem to value their ego too much to really be enlightened.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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Fine then, forgive me for I know what I must do....

Im more enlightened then the lot of you!!!

edit on 18-8-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: theMediator




Maybe I am enlightened, I do feel like it...
But I'm not going to boast around and saying that I am because those that do that seem to value their ego too much to really be enlightened.


Or you're not enlightened at all.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: theMediator




Maybe I am enlightened, I do feel like it...
But I'm not going to boast around and saying that I am because those that do that seem to value their ego too much to really be enlightened.


Or you're not enlightened at all.


Or you're acting like a jerk towards someone that backed your idea.

I really don't get that, I demand an acknowledgment that you should have been more civil.
edit on 18-8-2015 by theMediator because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: Profusion
I think the following Bible verses clearly describe what this thread is about:

James 2 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

According to the verses above, Christians would claim that one cannot have 'enlightenment' (which they would define as faith in Jesus) without specific action ('good' works). In this thread I'm asking whether you agree with that concept. Does enlightenment require any specific action (or possibly the absence of any specific action)? This is not a thread about Christianity, I'm only using those verses to illustrate the question posed in this thread.

I think this is a crucial question. Consider the "Illuminati" for example. They claim to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Many popes throughout history, many cults and secret societies throughout history, many countries throughout history have claimed to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Is it possible to be enlightened while committing horrendous acts? I ask that question because I think that many people would claim that enlightened people would be incapable of committing horrendous acts. Do you agree?

Personally, I'm on the fence on this issue.


"You ARE What YOU Are Seeking"~ Nisargatta Maharaj

In reality there is no doership but if you are asking what has to be done on a singular individual consciousness level in a single body mind that you currently operate then there is One thing that leads to Enlightenment. A Change in Understanding is all that is required.

Depending on who your Guru is he may or may not be at the last doorway. The guru that has gone before you may be Lord Christ or Lord Buddha or in my case Nisargadatta Maharaj is my main and my other brothers are Ramana Maharshi, Lahiri Mahsaya, Sri Yukteshwar Giri, All who I know have attained final enlightenment and have reached beyond the final doorway into original stateless state prior to beingness.

The Gurus leave a trail on a high pass to a very rarefied space where very few beings have been.

The perfect state beyond time and space and beyond taking on the body in this realm.

What needs to be done to reach this final doorway?

One enters meditation you listen for the inner sound that leads to the inner light and and at that light one surrenders the inner belief that the ego holds on to that it is the source of its own power at its doorstep. This belief is some how ingrained in the the DNA of the body vehicle as a survival mechanism during evolution and it persists and creates individuality. Also the illusion of time and space gives rise to the concept of separate objects which is turn gives rise to the concept of individuality which is in fact the original sin. In reality there is NO Person its all a transitory illusion projected onto the Absolute. There is no Enlightenment for there is NO One to reach it. There is only You.

" Wisdom is knowing that I am nothing, Love is knowing that I am everything and everyone., between those two my life moves"~Nisargadatta Maharaj

The key to the mystery is EGO Death. Once you go through it, when an Enlightened being comes back who would he kill and for what ? The entire universe is seen for what it is an ABSOLUTE FRAUD, much a like a dream it has lost its Value in comparison to the true state.

The electron lasts 100 billion trillion years, has a memory as if could hold 100 gigabytes, the ego body human mind machine contains approximately 4 billion trillion electrons.

But YOU Awareness is beyond time and space for You created them. You were there prior to the Big Bang You are there Now and You will be there at the End of Time and Space.

You are fully God and Fully Human but the Ego veils your Happiness. Go through ego death and surrender the inner belief.

"You must Die before You Die. "You need not to push life about. Just flow with it and give yourself completely to the task of the present moment, which is the dying now to the now. For living is dying without death life cannot be. " ."

“Absolute perfection is here and now, not in some future, near or far.
The secret is in action - here and now.
It is your behavior that blinds you to yourself.
Disregard whatever you think yourself to be and act as if you were absolutely perfect
- whatever your idea of perfection may be.
All you need is courage.”


― Nisargadatta Maharaj



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: theMediator



Lesmisanthrope:
Maybe I am enlightened, I do feel like it...
But I'm not going to boast around and saying that I am because those that do that seem to value their ego too much to really be enlightened.


theMediator: Or you're not enlightened at all.

Oh you know it; as one has to put great effort into that progression of ones soul to experience the rewards, ones ego has no say so (cannot pray/beg/bribe) another to 'gift' it to you.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Trachel




This isn't true.


It is. Someone who claims they are enlightened do so because they think they are enlightened. They aren't bestowed the honor. Enlightenment is always self-proclaimed.


Actually enlightenment is bestowed by higher powers unto those who deserve it.

Buddha didn't magically wake up one morning and call himself enlightened--he received that mantle from spirits.

Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu and all the famous sages and saints (and bodhisattvas and arhats) all experienced the same.

Enlightenment is generally bestowed during periods of prolonged meditation--and that occurs because during meditation your body goes into a sleep-like trance and the cerebrospinal fluid (which contains copious amounts of the neurotransmitter D-M-T floods into the brain facilitating contact with spirit realms).

Meditation is a self-induced psychedelic trance where you product a D-M-T burst in your brain.

And enlightenment is a title granted you by others.

Try meditating for a decade or two (and following other Taoist/Buddhist principles... you'll see what I'm on about).



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: Trachel
I am with you on this; telling others just try it for 20 years or so, you might get it right (no one said it was easy) at some point. You first have to determine method or what dogma to use; westerners are not very good at this because Christianity does not teach (nor wants you to know this knowledge) these esoteric truths of YOU gaining the ability to speak to God yourself through meditation.


edit on 18-8-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



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