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Time to allow Politics from the Pulpit openly as the Left does it anyway

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posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Why should churches be any different from any other person or entity in the United States?

Are they not incorporated? Do they not stand before our laws as fictitious legal entities?

Are you saying is that you'd like for churches to be given a special dispensation from government, to be treated as special individuals, or, in a way of saying it, given special rights above and beyond the rest of us, citizens, corporations, etc?

Sorry, the Constitution disagrees with you.




posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
If ANY church wants to politicize their religion, then they can pay taxes.

I don't care if they are left or right.

That was the trade off they accepted. No taxes, no politicizing.

~Tenth


But these days the two are becoming inseparable to certain agenda groups.

If a preacher wants to teach the passage where Jesus defines marriage to the Pharisees in order to explain divorce, there are certain agenda groups who will call that "politicizing" religion for the purpose of attacking teachings they don't like simply because it brushes up against an agenda and definition of marriage they would prefer to stamp out.

So basically, it seems to me that to those of you on the left, you are deciding that paying taxes is the gate-keeper to being able to express yourself. Or in other words, you have to buy your inalienable rights. This was not the intent of the Bill of Rights. They are not a list of goods for sale with a price tag.

And if that's the government you want, it basically means you are all in favor of a Mafia style, protection racket government.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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When you take the tax exempt statue from churches you also need to take it from labor unions. They have their hands all over politics.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Why should churches be any different from any other person or entity in the United States?


Because... (wait for it)... they are a church.


Are they not incorporated? Do they not stand before our laws as fictitious legal entities?


They are a church.


Are you saying is that you'd like for churches to be given a special dispensation from government, to be treated as special individuals, or, in a way of saying it, given special rights above and beyond the rest of us, citizens, corporations, etc?


No... I want them to be treated as a church.


Sorry, the Constitution disagrees with you.


It might disagree with the false narrative you are writing...
edit on 16-8-2015 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: xuenchen


By the way, where was the quote that I said you "hated Sharpton"?



I never said you said I hated Sharpton.

I asked if I had said that.

Re-read the original post.

And, what do you think was the original intention of that 1954 law the IRS refers to?

I can't find the original name of that law.

Can somebody help me find that?




posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

LOL ... nice. Alinsky would be so proud of you.

You claimed that I said you hated Sharpton. I asked you to quote me.

As usual, you didn't because you weren't telling the truth.

Reread the post yourself. Then, feel free to quote me, or, and I know this is unlikely, apologize for your mistake.

The tax code was massively reorganized as IRS Code of 1954.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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Taxes always have a side effect. The tax collector needs to know all about you in order to determine you tax contribution.

The income tax is the basis of this confusion and intrusion. The church should always be able to say what ever it wants to.

BTW with no income tax collected, the government would still be the size of the 1995 or 2000 budgets. The income tax is an unnecessary obstruction.
edit on 16-8-2015 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

And the Chamber of Commerce.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Oh good, another cutter-and-paster.

Churches should be treated differently than everyone else by the government, because they are churches???

What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" don't you get?

Where does that say that churches are exempt from following the laws of the land?

Our government doesn't give churches (as representatives of religion) special treatment. Period.

Wait a minute, perhaps I'm being abrupt ... cite the use of the word "church" or "churches" in the Constitution ... we'll wait.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

So you'd be okay with the churches paying their property taxes then?

No one here has specified "income taxes." Of course, I was mistaken here.

But, churches should pay sales tax, property taxes, etc? You're good with that?
edit on 12Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:27:46 -050015p122015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Oh good, another cutter-and-paster.

Churches should be treated differently than everyone else by the government, because they are churches???

What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" don't you get?

Where does that say that churches are exempt from following the laws of the land?

Our government doesn't give churches (as representatives of religion) special treatment. Period.

Wait a minute, perhaps I'm being abrupt ... cite the use of the word "church" or "churches" in the Constitution ... we'll wait.


Churches are part of religion as religious entities. The church, mosque, temple, synagogue is the gathering place of the church. To inhibit the church from being able to have a gathering place is to make laws respecting the free exercise thereof.

How do you think churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, et al., come about? It's because people give of their own money AFTER they are taxed in all the various ways government taxes and they build for themselves a gathering place in which to worship and fellowship which is part of their belief system.

I understand this may make your head explode and that you would prefer to shut every believer up in a closet somewhere, isolated and alone as part of the revenge of the left against perceived wrongs and oppressions, but if you check most religious tracts, fellowship and group worship is part of the free exercise thereof.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I say repeal the 16th Amendment.




posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

Labor Union political activities are taxed.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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its weird how the same people wanna pull up the constitution when it comes to religion, but yet ignore it when it comes to things such as gay marraige or abortion.....all very cherry picky



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

How does paying taxes keep the church from being able to have a gathering place?

How does having a gathering place or not keep religion from being practiced?

Why are you making a special pleading for government action (or in this case) inaction in behalf of churches?

The Constitution is clear ... "shall not establish" and "shall not prohibit the free exercise thereof"?

It doesn't say "will make an exception for churches."

Why are you trying to muddle things?

Also, why are you commenting on your silly evaluation of me and what I think? Stay on topic, or quote me saying any of that garbage you're trying to stuff in my mouth.

I'm not responsible for your delusions.
edit on 12Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:38:37 -050015p122015866 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Gryphon66

I say repeal the 16th Amendment.





I just bet you'd like to repeal a lot of them.

Did you ever find where I said you "hated Sharpton"?

Or did you make it up.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: kellyjay
its weird how the same people wanna pull up the constitution when it comes to religion, but yet ignore it when it comes to things such as gay marraige or abortion.....all very cherry picky


I think gays have the option to have their legal unions. Where I draw the line is when they seek to compel others to participate.

As for abortion, the founding documents do say we have a fundamental right to our lives, do they not?



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Semicollegiate

So you'd be okay with the churches paying their property taxes then?

No one here has specified "income taxes." Of course, I was mistaken here.

But, churches should pay sales tax, property taxes, etc? You're good with that?


BTW I suspect that churches set the precedent for property taxes. There were always churches before counties and towns.

Why not? In the US property taxes and sales taxes are locally assigned anyway, no US government involved.
edit on 16-8-2015 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

Are you in favor of churches paying property taxes, sales taxes, etc.?

Yes, no, maybe, etc.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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The idea that, I agree with the premise, Churches are not supposed to be taxed is that... religion is not supposed to have representation in government. So when churches (any churches) stump for politicians, or lobby politicians they should lose they're tax exemption as well as religious exemption to every US or state law they're exempt from.




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