Be wary of the meningitis vaccince

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: Pardon?

You are correct that anyone can report to VAERS, they admit their shortcomings right there in their disclaimer. But, consider this, why would anyone report to VAERS unless they believe there may be a connection to the vaccine? And, take into account my assertion that for every reported adverse effect, there are probably at least 2 more that go unreported.

Why wouldn't any event after a vaccine be reported?
Especially if it was serious?
My children get sore arms after their vaccinations.
That's considered an adverse event.
Should that be reported?

You are saying that adverse reactions don't indicate causality, which is true in some cases. And I am saying that many adverse effects aren't attributed to vaccines BECAUSE causality can't be proven.

Can you cite an example of this bizarre statement please?
And if causality can't be proven then that generally means it isn't the cause...

The fact is, there are no studies ever that have actually full depth studied the physiological systemic effects of vaccines. All the 'facts' and statistics and studies that everyone is quoting are relying on subjective input from the parents and doctors. Anecdotal evidence, if you will. NOBODY knows the full extent of what is or isn't caused by vaccines.

You've read them all then?
What study would satisfy you to have looked into the "full depth...physiological systemic effects of vaccines", whatever that means?

I don't, nor have I ever, read anti-vax propaganda. I try my damnedest to focus on the most reliable, objective sources.

Then why are you quoting from the NVIC?
You don't honestly think that's NOT an anti-vax site do you?


EDIT: And you've completely ignored the deaths from measles over the past few years let alone not acknowledged the complications from it which are far more common than any adverse event from the vaccine.
You said there had been no deaths and there have been.

If you're not anti-vax as you say you're not, I'd suggest looking at sites which aren't anti-vax.

a reply to: Pardon?

People think injecting numerous toxins and preservatives up to 49x into their 6-year-old child's bloodstream and brain is "healthy & necessary" for them.

Seems like peeps much, much richer than us have been trollin this subject for quite awhile already.

The vaccine procedure, lobby, and pharma agenda is about as ethical, healthy, and effective as pissing in a bottle, labeling it a "golden, health inducing elixir", and then bribing a primitive tribe's chieftain so he forces his villagers to drink your gold piss at a price($) forced upon them because they "need it to live". Need a good review or some "research" for your piss program? Throw some of the bananas & berries you just got from the villagers over to a few "official" witch-doctors in the community, with a little wink, and voila.

A masterpiece by the Troll Masters.

originally posted by: TheLegend
a reply to: Pardon?

People think injecting numerous toxins

What ingredients and at what doses are they toxic?

originally posted by: Pardon?
Why wouldn't any event after a vaccine be reported?
Especially if it was serious?
My children get sore arms after their vaccinations.
That's considered an adverse event.
Should that be reported?

That's up to you. I think a small measure of discomfort is to be expected and therefore non-reportable. On the other hand when my son got the DTaP he screamed bloody murder for 4 hours straight that evening. Pain screaming. Inconsolable. That is not normal and I did report it to my pediatrician. Where we are tetanus is a real concern, so I will definitely be getting him a tetanus booster, but he's not getting DTaP again. I don't know what was going on with his little body, but it was not good.

You are saying that adverse reactions don't indicate causality, which is true in some cases. And I am saying that many adverse effects aren't attributed to vaccines BECAUSE causality can't be proven.

Can you cite an example of this bizarre statement please?
And if causality can't be proven then that generally means it isn't the cause...

Infant receives vaccine. Infant falls under a group of higher susceptibility for adverse reactions. Maybe parents/doctor aren't aware of this. Following vaccination infant displays no outward symptoms indicating an adverse reaction. But internally something in the vaccine is reeking havoc on their brain tissue, immune system, etc. A week later the infant is dead. It's not like the medical examiner can look in a dead infant's brain in an autopsy and say "Oh, it was the vaccine that killed him/her." It would show up as something else or nothing at all. But the end result is the same, the infant is dead. The death is ruled SIDS. Because there is no physiological test that can be done (when vaccines are administered to a child who is at risk, it causes a chain reaction that ends up in death) no one can prove that vaccines are the culprit. There's no tissue sample test that exists to prove or disprove the role vaccines played.
If causality can't be proven, then all that means is that causality can't be proven. It doesn't mean it's not the cause, it just means it can't be proven.
Anecdote

The fact is, there are no studies ever that have actually full depth studied the physiological systemic effects of vaccines. All the 'facts' and statistics and studies that everyone is quoting are relying on subjective input from the parents and doctors. Anecdotal evidence, if you will. NOBODY knows the full extent of what is or isn't caused by vaccines.

You've read them all then?
What study would satisfy you to have looked into the "full depth...physiological systemic effects of vaccines", whatever that means?

I never claimed to have read them all. I do know that studies are all conducted by examining numbers of reactions cross referenced with receipt of vaccines. No study I have ever seen has administered the vaccine, then tracked it through the patient's body to determine exactly how the vaccine interacts with the body (physiological systemic effects). There's no way a study like that could be performed without invasive techniques. And no one is going to volunteer their kid for something like that. Plus, no such study would ever be approved as it would be unethical. So they just administer the vaccines and tally up the casualties. If it falls within an acceptable range then manufacturers are like *shrug* "Good enough for us."
This will give you an idea of how case studies are set up:
NCBI
After the fact. Simply comparing dates and maybe asking the parents and doctors some questions. What's funny about the above link is that it presents all the results of the studies that seem to show an increased risk for SIDS immediately following vaccination....then all of the sudden concludes that there is no causality. WTF?

Even with the pooled data, however, a doubling of the risk of SIDS in the period immediately following vaccination would have only about a 50 percent chance of being found to be statistically significant.

These studies are all number crunching after the fact. NONE of them involve in depth examination of physiology.

Warning, this link is from an anti-vax site, but it doesn't mean the info is wrong, if you give it a chance it may help you understand what I'm talking about with reporting methods v. reality. And, might I add, I just now found it it's not like my Bible or anything.:
Vactruth

Then why are you quoting from the NVIC?
You don't honestly think that's NOT an anti-vax site do you?

My bad, my mom was b*tching about something and I was distracted. It is an anti-vax site. I was hurriedly trying to find you links as you requested. They did list their references though, so I doubt they were just pulling statistics out of their butts.

EDIT: And you've completely ignored the deaths from measles over the past few years let alone not acknowledged the complications from it which are far more common than any adverse event from the vaccine.
You said there had been no deaths and there have been.

Forbes
ONE confirmed death in the United States due to measles. Immunocompromised woman contracted measles, which developed into pneumonia. SHE WAS VACCINATED.
Here's a list of all the adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine and the probabilities of each. I'm kind of sick of doing your research for you, so you can read through this at your leisure:
WHO

All these other measles deaths are worldwide, including third world countries. Places where stubbing your friggin toe could very well end in death.

a reply to: Pardon?

I had another anecdote to post, but ATS would not allow the link. Here's the story:

On Friday morning July 12, 2013 I took my son in for his 4 month well-baby checkup. The doctor gave him 7 vaccines - DTaP, IPV, Hib, PCV and Rota. He was cranky of course after, but doctors tell you to give Tylenol and teach you that these reactions are normal.

Saturday, he was still fussy and tired and didn't nurse as much as usual. Saturday night, my sister in law watched him overnight so we could go to work. I picked him up Sunday afternoon, after I woke up. We didn't do much that evening but nap. Looking back it seems that he was extra sleepy but I didn't notice it then.

Sunday night, I dropped him off at a very close friend's house around 10pm, so that I could go to work. Not knowing that this was the last time I'd see my son alive.

I sent pumped milk with him once I started going back to work, since he was 12 weeks old. He was used to being fed at the breast to fall asleep when he was with me. My friend said he never went to bed without a fight with her, but that night she said, he fell asleep on his own.

She said he woke in the middle of the night so she got up with him. She fell asleep in the recliner holding him. When she woke up, he was gone.

They started CPR, but of course it was no help.

I vividly remember the scream down the hallway in the middle of the night, at work, telling me to leave. I was a CNA at a nursing home, working overnights, when my coworker yelled down the hall that something was wrong with my baby. That was the absolute worst night of my life.

There were no obvious signs that something was wrong with him. Nothing outside of the "normal" that doctors lead you to believe is ok after your baby receives the vaccines. My son received his shots Friday morning and by late Sunday night- early Monday morning, he was gone.

His death was ruled as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).

The vaccines were not mentioned in Nicholas's autopsy report because at the time the autopsy was being done, the pathologist was not yet made aware that Nicholas recently received his shots. It all happened so fast and of course, at that moment in my life, things hadn't clicked yet that it was the vaccines. I was meant to believe they were so safe and this wouldn't happen.

Nicholas didn't have his airways blocked and did not suffocate when he passed away. I had to do my own homework and I was referred to a vaccine injury lawyer who listened to my story and took on my case. I had to request a report in order to file a vaccine injury claim.

The neurologist that did our report for the case actually did the autopsy also. Unfortunately, if I hadn't looked into things further on my own, I may have never known what took my sons life.

The doctor who did the autopsy even stated that he feels vaccine causation exists in our case and wrote this in our neuropathology report. The report we have gotten for our case clearly states that, in his opinion, vaccines were the likely cause of death. We were lucky because often times, vaccines are never mentioned and parents are not given truthful answers.

It seems most babies that die soon after vaccination are ruled as SIDS cases or some other vague cause of death. It doesn't make sense when all of these children are passing away after getting vaccines why the vaccines are never listed as the cause of death. Surely this needs to be considered more.

Most parents that have suffered the same fate mention that vaccines aren't even listed on their child's autopsy report, even when the person doing the autopsy is informed the kid was recently vaccinated. Why?

Thank goodness Missouri automatically does a full autopsy on children because when we later went back to file a vaccine adverse event report with VAERS, etc., they had exactly everything they needed. We are still waiting for our case to go through with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP), which we are told could take a very long time.

We will have to wait to find out if our case is awarded but no amount of money could replace our son. The maximum they give for vaccine related deaths is $250,000. That's what our children are worth to them. Most claims are denied and those that do get awarded are often settled for less. We've already been informed things are still slow moving on the case and of course the government isn't budging.

We were told we can either attempt to settle beforehand or fight this case in court, which might happen in the latter part of summer 2015. We would also have to make arrangements to fly to Washington D.C. because the U.S. Court of Federal Claims is there, across from the White House, to attend the court case which is different than regular court cases. Outsiders cannot attend and there is no jury. An appointed special master decides whether our case will be awarded or denied.

My son was vaccinated on schedule. He was given Hep B at birth, 8 vaccines at his 2 month well baby visit (DTaP, IPV, Hib, Heb B, PCV and Rota) and 7 vaccines at his 4 month well baby visit (DTaP, IPV, Hib, PCV and Rota). I don't think many parents are aware these are the vaccines on the current US schedule.

Here's an excerpt from the autopsy, I hope you can read it, it is an image and not text:

a reply to: GetHyped

From the CDC:

Additives used in the production of vaccines may include
suspending fluid (e.g. sterile water, saline, or fluids containing protein);
preservatives and stabilizers to help the vaccine remain unchanged (e.g. albumin, phenols, and glycine); and
adjuvants or enhancers to help the vaccine to be more effective.
Common substances found in vaccines include:
Aluminum gels or salts of aluminum which are added as adjuvants to help the vaccine stimulate a better response. Adjuvants help promote an earlier, more potent response, and more persistent immune response to the vaccine.
Antibiotics which are added to some vaccines to prevent the growth of germs (bacteria) during production and storage of the vaccine. No vaccine produced in the United States contains penicillin.
Egg protein is found in influenza and yellow fever vaccines, which are prepared using chicken eggs. Ordinarily, persons who are able to eat eggs or egg products safely can receive these vaccines.
Formaldehyde is used to inactivate bacterial products for toxoid vaccines, (these are vaccines that use an inactive bacterial toxin to produce immunity.) It is also used to kill unwanted viruses and bacteria that might contaminate the vaccine during production. Most formaldehyde is removed from the vaccine before it is packaged.
Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol which are used as stabilizers in a few vaccines to help the vaccine remain unchanged when the vaccine is exposed to heat, light, acidity, or humidity.
Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

That's not a complete list, you have to check out the specifics for the vaccine you want to know about. And even then it may vary by manufacturer.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I specifically asked for the dosages at which they are toxic. That, after all, is the important information.

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm kind of sick of this thread. Look it up yourself.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Did I even ask you to respond to me, or did you take it upon yourself?

For someone that's supposedly anti-vax, you are indistinguishable from an anti-vaxxer.

Is claiming to be not anti-vax the anti-vaxxer equivalent of saying "I'm not racist, but..." before going on a racist tirade?

@ Pardon? and GetHyped

I just looked up your thread histories. You're both total, 100% pro-vaccine shills. I've got better things to do with my time. And here I was thinking I was helping curious people get informed.

Peace.

PS Next week my baby boy has a doc appointment for yet another vaccine. I said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm not anti-vax, I'm just pro-lets be smart about vax'ing.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

You: "I'm not anti-vax!"

Me: "At what dosages are these ingredients toxic?"

You: "You're a vaccine shill!"

LOL. I guess asking for evidence to support anti-vaxxer claims makes me a shill /s

Probably best you pack up your ball and go home as you said you would if this is your idea of logic.

originally posted by: TheLegend
a reply to: Pardon?

People think injecting numerous toxins and preservatives up to 49x into their 6-year-old child's bloodstream and brain is "healthy & necessary" for them.

Seems like peeps much, much richer than us have been trollin this subject for quite awhile already.

The vaccine procedure, lobby, and pharma agenda is about as ethical, healthy, and effective as pissing in a bottle, labeling it a "golden, health inducing elixir", and then bribing a primitive tribe's chieftain so he forces his villagers to drink your gold piss at a price($) forced upon them because they "need it to live". Need a good review or some "research" for your piss program? Throw some of the bananas & berries you just got from the villagers over to a few "official" witch-doctors in the community, with a little wink, and voila.

A masterpiece by the Troll Masters.

Vaccines are never injected into the bloodstream.
Ever.
Especially the oral and nasal spray ones...

Your link shows the number of deaths.
It very dishonestly doesn't show the number of cases.
It doesn't show the numbers of complications.
Only deaths.

Ideally, if you wanted to show something to change rational minds capable of thought, instead of just showing a non-referenced picture why not provide ALL of the information?
Or would that not help you misinformation crusade?

This guy nails it (see, references and everything!).
www.iayork.com...

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie

Infant receives vaccine. Infant falls under a group of higher susceptibility for adverse reactions. Maybe parents/doctor aren't aware of this. Following vaccination infant displays no outward symptoms indicating an adverse reaction. But internally something in the vaccine is reeking havoc on their brain tissue, immune system, etc. A week later the infant is dead. It's not like the medical examiner can look in a dead infant's brain in an autopsy and say "Oh, it was the vaccine that killed him/her." It would show up as something else or nothing at all. But the end result is the same, the infant is dead. The death is ruled SIDS. Because there is no physiological test that can be done (when vaccines are administered to a child who is at risk, it causes a chain reaction that ends up in death) no one can prove that vaccines are the culprit. There's no tissue sample test that exists to prove or disprove the role vaccines played.
If causality can't be proven, then all that means is that causality can't be proven. It doesn't mean it's not the cause, it just means it can't be proven.
Anecdote

Other than anaphylaxis which is extremely rare and occurs very soon after administration I can't think of any other "chain-reaction" which could cause such harm.
This should be extremely easy to demonstrate especially if it causes so much harm.
Seriously, this would be basic stuff and pretty easy to track back.

And why would the death be ruled as SIDS?
You're making an awful lot of assumptions here.

The fact is, there are no studies ever that have actually full depth studied the physiological systemic effects of vaccines. All the 'facts' and statistics and studies that everyone is quoting are relying on subjective input from the parents and doctors. Anecdotal evidence, if you will. NOBODY knows the full extent of what is or isn't caused by vaccines.

You've read them all then?
What study would satisfy you to have looked into the "full depth...physiological systemic effects of vaccines", whatever that means?

I never claimed to have read them all. I do know that studies are all conducted by examining numbers of reactions cross referenced with receipt of vaccines. No study I have ever seen has administered the vaccine, then tracked it through the patient's body to determine exactly how the vaccine interacts with the body (physiological systemic effects). There's no way a study like that could be performed without invasive techniques. And no one is going to volunteer their kid for something like that. Plus, no such study would ever be approved as it would be unethical. So they just administer the vaccines and tally up the casualties. If it falls within an acceptable range then manufacturers are like *shrug* "Good enough for us."
This will give you an idea of how case studies are set up:
NCBI
After the fact. Simply comparing dates and maybe asking the parents and doctors some questions. What's funny about the above link is that it presents all the results of the studies that seem to show an increased risk for SIDS immediately following vaccination....then all of the sudden concludes that there is no causality. WTF?

Even with the pooled data, however, a doubling of the risk of SIDS in the period immediately following vaccination would have only about a 50 percent chance of being found to be statistically significant.

These studies are all number crunching after the fact. NONE of them involve in depth examination of physiology.

This one does a pretty good job.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Warning, this link is from an anti-vax site, but it doesn't mean the info is wrong, if you give it a chance it may help you understand what I'm talking about with reporting methods v. reality. And, might I add, I just now found it it's not like my Bible or anything.:
Vactruth

Then why are you quoting from the NVIC?
You don't honestly think that's NOT an anti-vax site do you?

My bad, my mom was b*tching about something and I was distracted. It is an anti-vax site. I was hurriedly trying to find you links as you requested. They did list their references though, so I doubt they were just pulling statistics out of their butts.

EDIT: And you've completely ignored the deaths from measles over the past few years let alone not acknowledged the complications from it which are far more common than any adverse event from the vaccine.
You said there had been no deaths and there have been.

Forbes
ONE confirmed death in the United States due to measles. Immunocompromised woman contracted measles, which developed into pneumonia. SHE WAS VACCINATED.
Here's a list of all the adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine and the probabilities of each. I'm kind of sick of doing your research for you, so you can read through this at your leisure:
WHO
All these other measles deaths are worldwide, including third world countries. Places where stubbing your friggin toe could very well end in death.

Irrespective of the other four deaths that have been caused by measles and the numerous death in France and Germany over the same period (two countries with arguably better healthcare systems than the US) one is still more than none wouldn't you agree?
The WHO document you linked does indeed show the adverse event rate.
Why don't you do a little bit more research, for yourself, not for me and then compare the rates of complications from the measles to those from the MMR.
And then understand that your apparent hysteria is unfounded.

Proof that you think you know more than you do is evident in this sentence "Immunocompromised woman contracted measles, which developed into pneumonia. SHE WAS VACCINATED."
I've italicised the word immunocompromised because you have capitalised the "she was vaccinated" part.
Do you understand why I know why you are exhibiting Dunning Kruger?
Think about it.
Or better still, ask an expert.

And the plural of anecdote is still not data.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
@ Pardon? and GetHyped

I just looked up your thread histories. You're both total, 100% pro-vaccine shills. I've got better things to do with my time. And here I was thinking I was helping curious people get informed.

Peace.

PS Next week my baby boy has a doc appointment for yet another vaccine. I said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm not anti-vax, I'm just pro-lets be smart about vax'ing.

I wouldn't say I'm pro-vax, just anti anti-vax and very against the misinformation, dishonesty and downright lies they use to propagate their anti-health crusade.
The decision to vaccinate should be a very easy one but there's so much of the above out there that it confuses people.
So if I see deliberate misinfo posted then I'll counter it.
So feel free to call me what you will, if it makes you feel better but also be aware that the misinfo you believe in and push is harmful.

And I'm beginning to really dislike the Dunning Kruger brigade too.
If only that could be vaccinated against...