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originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Irishhaf
I happen to fall exactly into the group you are discussing, "fathers who got the short end of things" category and I openly criticize the type of thinking displayed in this thread as a straw man argument on several levels...
It's thinly veiled pro-life rhetoric, masquerading as something else.
It's an appeal to emotion, trying to present a total shift of power to a single side as an argument for equality.
It's a mess of false equivalencies.
When my parents divorced the legal pendulum was too far one way, and my father - a rather wealthy man - got away with not paying child support at all, and no court would force him to. In fact a Judge told my mother to "Get a third job" and "learn to manage money better".
By the time I got divorced, things had swung too far in the other direction and all my ex had to say was "He scares me" for a judge to see her as totally in the right.
What is being proposed by the OP is simply another massive swing to one side and does not benefit the child at all. It's all about ego, and that is just sad.
originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
originally posted by: WanderingSage
Okay but if the roles are reversed and she wants it and he doesn't then he is still responsible. How is that right? He'll be responsible his whole life and not just for nine months.
I believe that a man should have the legal option to "opt out" in time for the woman to decide if she wants to be the sole caretaker or have an abortion. But that's not the way it is now, so it's kind of moot.
But the man has a LOT to lose when he has sex. He can lose the right to keep the baby, he can lose the right to opt out, he can lose 18 years of child support money... So, since he has SO MUCH to lose, he should be a LOT more careful
about who he has sex with and what protection he uses.
Also if the woman doesn't want to get pregnant then she shouldn't have sex. It's responsibility for your actions.
Likewise, if a man doesn't want to take the chance of handing the fate of his baby over to someone else, then he shouldn't have sex. It goes both ways.
Fact is, men can't carry babies. That's just a fact. Until they are, they have so much more to lose, so they should be HIGHLY selective. Instead of blaming the woman for doing what she does, take 100% responsibility of creating a life and be ready to either let it go or to pay for it for 18 years. You DO have a choice. Take advantage of it.
I am sorry about your pain.
originally posted by: muse7
originally posted by: Gryphon66
Crux of the irrational argument: fertilized egg (blastocyst), embryo, fetus equals "unborn human."
This is "political correctness" taken to a ridiculous extreme.
By the same logic, preventing a pregnancy (via contraception) is also "murder" because those little ova and sperm all "deserve a chance" to come together.
Monty Python considered the subject once upon a time: "Every Sperm is Sacred" ... check out the video if you want to see the ultimate result of the majority of "pro-life" sentiment.
They're not really "pro-life" though.
We should begin to call them what they really are, which is anti-choice
originally posted by: Gryphon66
... and yet, the callous murders committed by cops, and the millions of callous murders by bombs are just honky-donkey.
However, if she chooses not to, he has no say at all.
originally posted by: ParasuvO
So tell us, what are the signs we should all be looking for, when they want just a child and toss us to the door.
A whole HELL of a lot of women are doing this, I have seen it , and I have subsequently chosen VERY carefully.
Imagine how hard it is to look through the seas of women wondering which ones are not like the vast majority who are all single mothers and onto the 5th guy by now, with the 3-5th child.
Complaint filed against Texas judge over 'get married or go to jail' order
The judge last month gave Josten Bundy, 21, a choice of marrying his girlfriend Elizabeth Jaynes, 19, and being released on probation or spending 15 days in jail after he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault. Bundy, who had gotten into a fight with Jaynes's former boyfriend, chose to get married.
The judge also ordered Bundy to write Bible verses and attend counseling, according to a transcript of the proceedings obtained by broadcaster KLTV in Tyler, Texas.