The Terminology Is Grotesque... In My Opinion!

a reply to: johnwick

Why do you think that having multiple sex partners excludes a person from being "good"?

Does having multiple partners make someone bad? Or undesireable?

I know a lot of people have this concept of purity. But how does this translate into the real world?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Yeah. I know, Charlie, to use the word "murder" for the pleasant term of "pro-choice" is really disgusting isn't it?

Walk up to a wall and keep smashing your head against it. That is what you are doing. Language and terms used in that language are evolving all the time, whether innocently or by design ie. ,sack the workforce, no ,no it's downsizing. Down through the centuries words that in their time were everyday terms, yet today could be very offensive. This language evolving for good or bad is going on all the time, it's dynamic.

a reply to: johnwick

They can. It's called "killing in self-defense".

So if carrying a child to term means the woman dies, you think the child's life trumps the woman's life?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Charlie, you're nothing more than a "clump of cells".

Just sayin'.

Me too!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
One thing that bothers me lately is the terminology amidst the abortion/PP threads.

Likewise here. But instead of being annoyed by people calling lumps of cells - well, lumps of cells - I'm annoyed because some folks insist that these lumps of cells are already children. They will do anything to make you feel like you have murdered somebody if you had to have an abortion, simply because they ride a high moral horse.

That's manipulation too.

Bleating and moaning with high horses and judgement I see but never solutions.
Same as always from the anti choice crowd...

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Bleating and moaning with high horses and judgement I see but never solutions.
Same as always from the anti choice crowd...

Solutions are quite simple.

I mean, if you're hitting people in the head with a hammer and asking for solutions to the issue of hitting people in the head with a hammer, then I'd say, "Stop hitting people in the head with a hammer".

The problem is that people see procreation as something akin to breathing.

Something involuntary and outside of their realm of control.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Spontaneous abortion happens a lot. When a woman has a late heavy period it is often a spontaneous abortion. Just a normal part of reproduction where the body gets rid of an unviable foetus. Of course having what seems to be a period but is in fact a spontaneous abortion would freak a lot of woman out, so it's left as a late heavy period.

No point getting all high and mighty or freaking out. It's simply biology at work, do you really think the human body is perfect!?!?!?!?!? Or do you want "God" to ensure every bad fertilisation to go full term? I've seen jars of aborted foetuses (human and non human) at the Huntarian Museum in Glasgow. Cyclops babies, two headed sheep etc

Certainly freaky, but all normal occurances in a non perfect non god world.

FYI all cyclops babies spontaneously abort late and the mother never sees the baby.......obviously!

a reply to: beezzer

So thats your answer ? Stop having sex?.
How about us men practising safe sex? Of course women also.
Better sex education? Because these will help bring down the abortion rates.
Because lets face it ot will never be made illegal again. Unless you want women to be 2nd class citizens.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: beezzer

So thats your answer ? Stop having sex?.
How about us men practising safe sex? Of course women also.
Better sex education? Because these will help bring down the abortion rates.
Because lets face it ot will never be made illegal again. Unless you want women to be 2nd class citizens.

Have I ever said that men shouldn't be responsible?

Last time I checked, it took 2 people to make a baby.

theres a clear difference with a clump of cells, and what those at PP were poking through in that bowl in the clinic, arms and legs and eyes etc.....

Which video showed that? I did not see that.

a reply to: kellyjay

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Which video showed that? I did not see that.

a reply to: kellyjay

the 3rd video....www.youtube.com... skip to the 9 minute mark

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It's the way of the world fella, same with animals, notice how dogs are never killed they are 'put down' or 'put to sleep', and tomcats are never castrated they are 'fixed'.
That 'fixed' thing particularly annoys me, it seems to be a US thing, and the cats are not 'fixed' at all, they have their perfectly good working balls removed, if anything the cats reproductive system is broken after castration.

Regarding abortions and 'clumps of cells' well I guess it all depends on the stage of development. There are some religious types who think the morning after pill is murder, but hey what do I know, I'm a bloke so I'll never have to worry about making that decision.
I know one thing though, you ban abortion and it ain't going away anytime soon, just underground. I assume you feel the same as me and do not want a return to women in back alley death houses with knitting needles.

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Which video showed that? I did not see that.

a reply to: kellyjay

the 3rd video....www.youtube.com... skip to the 9 minute mark

Thanks kelly, i did not see that part. I know that this is really hard to watch for most people. Seeing the form of a hand or leg can trigger an unpleasant reaction. This is what i would expect a fetus to look like though. Perhaps some people are not familiar with the stages of developement but i grew up on a farm. I have seen miscarriages of many different animals. Doctors and med profs have a serious job to do. The education is intense and part of it is being comfortable enough with images like this, to be able to do a very important and beneficial job. Not everyone is cut out for this type of unbiased procedure.
I think there are a lot of issues that the anti crowd could never be comfortable with. It seems like some folks have an emotional attachment to every fetus in the world. And i say that with no sarc. The truth is that most woman with an active sex life will get pregnant and miscarry many times and never even realise. These same folks aren't up in arms about miscarriage because they see it as a natural occurrance, because there was no decision made. It just happens because the chemistry doesn't support the fetus. Abortion is just giving control of that process to the woman. I would never want to remove a persons ability to get an abortion at a clean facility with trained personel.
A womans right to end a pregnancy should never be refused and she should not be shamed into having a child she does not want. This creates a parent who could grow to resent that child.
Now that the decision to abort a pregnancy has been made, and they go to a qualified facility to have the procedure done, the question becomes what to do with the chopped up baby parts. (Thats for you charlie) do you treat them like garbage? do you incinerate them? Or do you use them to further our understanding of human development and help find cures for future viable babies for when they grow up and get sick? That is left up to the woman. It is her choice to incinerate or to donate.
The decision to abort should not be refused for many reasons. And i'm sure you would not want to legislate that into a blanket ban. That would be terrible for many women.
Then if she decides to donate that chopped up baby (charlie) then you need qualified technicians to work with that material. Those techs need to get paid, and you will need supplies and tools to do the work and preserve it. The more intricate the work becomes, the more costs will accrue. That is why they are talking about how some material is cheaper/more expensive to provide.
These PP facilities happen to be non profit. (There are abortion clinics that charge for their services) that doesn't mean that the people who work there are volunteers and work for free. Non profits are allowed to charge for their work to cover costs of their labor, materials, and to pay the employees. They are just not allowed to sell human body parts. Which they are not doing.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Which video showed that? I did not see that.

a reply to: kellyjay

the 3rd video....www.youtube.com... skip to the 9 minute mark

Thanks kelly, i did not see that part. I know that this is really hard to watch for most people. Seeing the form of a hand or leg can trigger an unpleasant reaction. This is what i would expect a fetus to look like though. Perhaps some people are not familiar with the stages of developement but i grew up on a farm. I have seen miscarriages of many different animals. Doctors and med profs have a serious job to do. The education is intense and part of it is being comfortable enough with images like this, to be able to do a very important and beneficial job. Not everyone is cut out for this type of unbiased procedure.
I think there are a lot of issues that the anti crowd could never be comfortable with. It seems like some folks have an emotional attachment to every fetus in the world. And i say that with no sarc. The truth is that most woman with an active sex life will get pregnant and miscarry many times and never even realise. These same folks aren't up in arms about miscarriage because they see it as a natural occurrance, because there was no decision made. It just happens because the chemistry doesn't support the fetus. Abortion is just giving control of that process to the woman. I would never want to remove a persons ability to get an abortion at a clean facility with trained personel.
A womans right to end a pregnancy should never be refused and she should not be shamed into having a child she does not want. This creates a parent who could grow to resent that child.
Now that the decision to abort a pregnancy has been made, and they go to a qualified facility to have the procedure done, the question becomes what to do with the chopped up baby parts. (Thats for you charlie) do you treat them like garbage? do you incinerate them? Or do you use them to further our understanding of human development and help find cures for future viable babies for when they grow up and get sick? That is left up to the woman. It is her choice to incinerate or to donate.
The decision to abort should not be refused for many reasons. And i'm sure you would not want to legislate that into a blanket ban. That would be terrible for many women.
Then if she decides to donate that chopped up baby (charlie) then you need qualified technicians to work with that material. Those techs need to get paid, and you will need supplies and tools to do the work and preserve it. The more intricate the work becomes, the more costs will accrue. That is why they are talking about how some material is cheaper/more expensive to provide.
These PP facilities happen to be non profit. (There are abortion clinics that charge for their services) that doesn't mean that the people who work there are volunteers and work for free. Non profits are allowed to charge for their work to cover costs of their labor, materials, and to pay the employees. They are just not allowed to sell human body parts. Which they are not doing.

I said on another thread, that some refer to it as a clump of cells, that suddenly become intact lungs and intact hearts when planned parenthood are selling off the parts for profit

a reply to: kellyjay

Are you claiming that they are making a profit? Or are you saying that others are making this claim?
Either way, it would be easy to tell if they are making a profit. You open their books and check their tax returns.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: kellyjay

Are you claiming that they are making a profit? Or are you saying that others are making this claim?
Either way, it would be easy to tell if they are making a profit. You open their books and check their tax returns. [/quot


if it were as easy at that the IRS would be out of a job, take for example PP claiming tax funds for "services" and "proceedures" they didnt actually carry out, and were taken to court and were forced to pay back.

fact is it looks like PP are using loopholes in the law to do what they are doing.

see the law states that they can be compensated for things such as shipping costs and reasonable expenses, it wouldnt be hard to throw in a few extra expenses here and there, and that is even discussed in great detail in one of the videos, about ways of working around such laws, and making sure everyone is on the same page so they "dont get caught"

dont get caught doing what exactly? whats to hide? why do they have to work around laws is everything is legal?

edit on 02/08/2015 by kellyjay because: (no reason given)

a reply to: kellyjay

Laws are tricky, there are always loopholes. If it is a question of the legality, and it is found that they have stretched it so far as to be outside the boundaries, then so be it.


If they are found to be innocent, will you still be offended at the thought of them using this fetal tissue?