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Arrogance of Humans

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posted on Aug, 15 2015 @ 09:34 PM
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I live in the country with dogs, cats, goats, chickens and tons of wildlife. It is beyond me how people think animals are stupid, don't have feelings or don't have souls. They are most certainly not stupid. They most certainly have feelings. And seeing as how no one can prove the existence of the soul, I will have to settle for saying that IF the soul exists then animals certainly have them.

This happened recently:

A whale approached a boat and essentially begged the guys to help remove a plastic bag that was stuck on its mouth. Now which species is really superior? The one that knows it's in trouble and turns to another species for help? Or the one that pollutes the crap out of the water and accidentally kills millions of creatures with its refuse?


edit on 15-8-2015 by ladyvalkyrie because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 15 2015 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Specimen

I bet if I bring statistics in here and detail all the rapes and murders that humans have done you could not even find .00001% equivalent of the entire animal kingdom combined.

They sure are more spiritual and far less arrogant than any humans.

You have convinced me beyond all shadow of a doubt.

That you can even take what I said and bring this BS in here is ridiculous. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Maybe u can and maybe u can't. Their are animals that rape btw, Male Polar Bears will kill a females cubs just to mate with the female, Tasmanian Devils rape their mates pretty much all the time when it comes to breeding, where a Prey Mantis and a Black Widow kills the male after breeding, or how most insects penis break off not letting the female reproduce again.

Chimpanzees go around mate, to mate, cheating all the time, and arent aware of the sacred vow of marriage, which is off spiritual importance I understand. Wolves are monogamous, so thats a reality.

Like I said, a Dolphin raping a person is more like a dog humping someones leg, even though they are one of like two mammals that have sex out of pleasure. Also, why Dolphins attack their young is not really well explained, but it happens.

Although I don't think most animals would be aware of raping a member of it species, like humans do, where they do it out desperation or excitement. Also, other, more aggressive humans are more likely to involves themselves when it comes to rapists.

How many rapists end up getting killed, or used too anyways?

And how can I be ashamed...Im wearing pants.
edit on 15-8-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2015 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

A superior species wouldn't be a superior species if kill it self by its own stupidity, would it?
edit on 15-8-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2015 @ 11:47 PM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie


Now which species is really superior? The one that knows it's in trouble and turns to another species for help? Or the one that pollutes the crap out of the water and accidentally kills millions of creatures with its refuse?

Obviously, the one that can get a plastic bag off its face without having to ask another species to help them.


edit on 15/8/15 by Astyanax because: I wanted to convey the full effect.



posted on Aug, 15 2015 @ 11:48 PM
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a reply to: searcherfortruth


You are to be applauded for your saving of animals

Save your applause; it is as valueless to me as your uninformed and therefore valueless opinions.

Dolphin gang-rape has been caught on camera. If you don't like seeing cetacean penises, don't watch.




posted on Aug, 15 2015 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Hands are cool.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 12:05 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 02:13 AM
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a reply to: Phage

Yeah, they even have the moloko.

(This was posted elsewhere on ATS earlier, I believe)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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originally posted by: Specimen
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

A superior species wouldn't be a superior species if kill it self by its own stupidity, would it?


So you agree that humans AREN'T the superior species? We're not only killing ourselves with our own stupidity, we're taking down half the planet with us.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 06:28 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie


Now which species is really superior? The one that knows it's in trouble and turns to another species for help? Or the one that pollutes the crap out of the water and accidentally kills millions of creatures with its refuse?

Obviously, the one that can get a plastic bag off its face without having to ask another species to help them.



So basically your stance is: F*ck a sentient being, if it can't get a plastic bag (which WE put there) off its face it deserves to die.

I'm not even here trying to say animals are superior to humans. I'm saying that animals are intelligent, have feelings and if you believe in souls at all then they possess those as well. I'm agreeing with the OP that humans are arrogant as hell to try to bend the natural world to their will, to force animals to do their bidding. A much more successful system IMHO would be a harmonious one based on mutual respect. I have animals on my farm that should be natural enemies, yet they live side by side. I don't force my animals to do anything. The goats willingly give milk, the dogs do as they're told, the chickens lay plenty of eggs- all because we provide a comfortable, healthy environment. Everybody's happy here and a system like this COULD be in place on a global scale.......if humans weren't such gargantuan dicks.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie


So basically your stance is: F*ck a sentient being, if it can't get a plastic bag (which WE put there) off its face it deserves to die.

Vicious, offensive rubbish. I'll thank you, madam, to apply a little of that human intelligence you're so busy denigrating.


I'm saying that animals are intelligent, have feelings and if you believe in souls at all then they possess those as well.

I don't believe in souls. Many animals are indeed very intelligent (while many more are less so, and the vast majority lack intelligence altogether). And yes, animals have feelings; since they are equipped with nervous systems, one would hardly expect otherwise. I can't see a cat being moved by Euripides, though.


I'm agreeing with the OP that humans are arrogant as hell to try to bend the natural world to their will, to force animals to do their bidding.

All animals do this to a greater or lesser extent. Humans are no exception; we are simply following the pattern of all evolutionarily successful species. From bacteria to blue whales, all animals live at the expense of the natural world and of their fellow organisms.

Ants bend aphids to their will. Beavers bend entire riverine ecologies to their will. Parasites alter their hosts' behaviour. Dolphins herd tuna. The bacteria in your gut have more to do with your thoughts, feelings and actions than you would ever care to admit.


A much more successful system IMHO would be a harmonious one based on mutual respect.

You may well be right, but no such system exists in nature. The closest we come to it is the system of controlled, systematic exploitation we call farming, and which you describe in such glowing terms as these:


I have animals on my farm that should be natural enemies, yet they live side by side. I don't force my animals to do anything. The goats willingly give milk, the dogs do as they're told, the chickens lay plenty of eggs- all because we provide a comfortable, healthy environment. Everybody's happy here and a system like this COULD be in place on a global scale.......if humans weren't such gargantuan dicks.

The 'natural enemies' live side by side becaue their bellies are full, and because countless generations of selective breeding have eliminated just about all forms of 'natural' behaviour that are inconvenient to humans. Dogs, goats and chickens are not natural except in the most general sense of the word. They are artificial biological entities created by us from respectively, wolves, wild goats and jungle-fowl, none of which will do what they are told or give you their milk and eggs willingly.

Farming is yet another way in which humans exploit the natural world. It is ancient, highly successful, totally artificial and massively destructive to wild environments. If that's your example of 'mutual respect' you obviously haven't thought very deeply about this.

I fear you are a sentimentalist whose view of nature is very far removed from reality. Just how long have you been running that farm?


edit on 16/8/15 by Astyanax because: of organic issues.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: ladyvalkyrie


So basically your stance is: F*ck a sentient being, if it can't get a plastic bag (which WE put there) off its face it deserves to die.

Vicious, offensive rubbish. I'll thank you, madam, to apply a little of that human intelligence you're so busy denigrating.

So sorry to come off as 'vicious and offensive', but what exactly did you mean by "Obviously, the one that can get a plastic bag off its face without having to ask another species to help them. "?



I'm saying that animals are intelligent, have feelings and if you believe in souls at all then they possess those as well.


I don't believe in souls. Many animals are indeed very intelligent (while many more are less so, and the vast majority lack intelligence altogether). And yes, animals have feelings; since they are equipped with nervous systems, one would hardly expect otherwise. I can't see a cat being moved by Euripides, though.


I've already conceded that the whole 'soul' issue is subjective. And by feelings I'm not just talking about the cause and effect of a nervous system, I'm talking about emotions as we know them. Animals- even the ones you feel lack intelligence altogether- feel happy when things are going well, get depressed or even neurotic when things aren't going so well, they feel appreciation when they are treated with kindness and have things categorized in their memories as harmful (a dog that's been beaten will be skittish) or beneficial (a dog that hasn't seen its owner in years will still recognize them and show affection.) Animals- and even plants- are more advanced and much more closer to humans than we give them credit for and our arrogance and underestimation are causing irreversible harm to the natural world.


I'm agreeing with the OP that humans are arrogant as hell to try to bend the natural world to their will, to force animals to do their bidding.


All animals do this to a greater or lesser extent. Humans are no exception; we are simply following the pattern of all evolutionarily successful species. From bacteria to blue whales, all animals live at the expense of the natural world and of their fellow organisms.

Ants bend aphids to their will. Beavers bend entire riverine ecologies to their will. Parasites alter their hosts' behaviour. Dolphins herd tuna. The bacteria in your gut have more to do with your thoughts, feelings and actions than you would ever care to admit.


I'm sorry, but what other species abuses, enslaves, traps, pens and indiscriminately kills other species to the extent of humans? And if you are offering instances of animals manipulating/killing/raping as proof that they are inferior well congratulations you just proved the OP's point that humans are no better than animals because we not only perform all the same atrocities, we do it on a ridiculously large scale. And don't assume what I care to admit- I'm a firm believer in the necessity of bacteria in a symbiotic relationship. It's other humans besides me that try to douse everything with rubbing alcohol and chemical disinfectants, that eat antibiotics like they're candy and make themselves sick in the process by disturbing the balance.


A much more successful system IMHO would be a harmonious one based on mutual respect.


You may well be right, but no such system exists in nature. The closest we come to it is the system of controlled, systematic exploitation we call farming, and which you describe in such glowing terms as these:



I have animals on my farm that should be natural enemies, yet they live side by side. I don't force my animals to do anything. The goats willingly give milk, the dogs do as they're told, the chickens lay plenty of eggs- all because we provide a comfortable, healthy environment. Everybody's happy here and a system like this COULD be in place on a global scale.......if humans weren't such gargantuan dicks.


The 'natural enemies' live side by side becaue their bellies are full, and because countless generations of selective breeding have eliminated just about all forms of 'natural' behaviour that are inconvenient to humans. Dogs, goats and chickens are not natural except in the most general sense of the word. They are artificial biological entities created by us from respectively, wolves, wild goats and jungle-fowl, none of which will do what they are told or give you their milk and eggs willingly.

Farming is yet another way in which humans exploit the natural world. It is ancient, highly successful, totally artificial and massively destructive to wild environments. If that's your example of 'mutual respect' you obviously haven't thought very deeply about this.


You're right, it is unfortunate that no large scale system is in place to promote harmony and mutual respect. And I agree that clear cutting and factory farms are artificial and massively destructive. That's why, where I live 95% of wild nature is left just as it is. We don't even cut down trees or 'weeds' unless it is absolutely necessary. We work WITH our animals' natural behaviors and allow them to give us their resources in the most comfortable way possible. My mom's chickens stopped laying about a year ago. She tried EVERYTHING. Then I speculated that they were overcrowded and suggested that she let them free range. Now we let them out for several hours in the evening and they are laying more eggs than we can consume- we're constantly giving away dozens of eggs to friends and family. My point is that if you take the feelings of animals into account (which of course means you first have to acknowledge that such feelings exist) you end up with even greater results than you would with sheer brute force.


I fear you are a sentimentalist whose view of nature is very far removed from reality. Just how long have you been running that farm?



And I fear you are an arrogant human whose view of nature is even further from reality than what you perceive my shortcomings to be. Our farm has been here for 36 years. I lived here until I was 17 and came back 3 years ago. The 25 acres has remained completely unchanged in that 36 years, all of our animals are free range and no animals in the entire 36 years have been beaten or abused in any way. The chickens eat the pests in the garden (no chemicals needed) the dogs and horse provide security for the more vulnerable animals, the cats prevent vermin infestation, and the garden, goats and chickens provide fresh organic food for our consumption. Sorry, but this IS reality, you're welcome to visit any time and see for yourself.

edit on 16-8-2015 by ladyvalkyrie because: format

edit on 16-8-2015 by ladyvalkyrie because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

And might I point out this irony: Your avatar is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You can't FORCE a snake not to bite. You have to be aware of it's natural behaviors and cues. You have to treat it kindly and with respect. Otherwise, putting a cobra up to your face would be a death sentence. Snake charmers are the embodiment of mutual respect between animals and humans, I guarantee they don't view the snakes as an 'inferior' species that begs to be dominated.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: Specimen

Foot in mouth disease runs rampant in your family I bet.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:28 AM
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Animals are morally no better than us, just less well equipped.

Chimpanzees wage war, commit premeditated murder, rape, and get drunk.

Dolphins track down lone porpoises and gang rape them, then find a shark to bully and kill, then find a nice puffer fish to take a bite out of to get high as they all pass it around and muse about that hot piece of tail they gang banged earlier. For every dolphin that's saved someone, another has drowned and raped them.

There are lots of examples of, the more intelligent an animal is, the more it's capable of willful immorality.

Dolphins are lauded as super spiritual beings we should try to live up to. I think we're doing quite well at that considering their true colors.

Humans think, animals think, and quite often our thoughts and feeling likely parallel, as both our minds evolved from the same building blocks.

Are our thoughts identical all the time, oh hell no, are they never the same, I also say oh hell no. Chances are we often share the same mental abilities as other animals. The evidence is there.

It is erroneous to assume our thoughts are identical, it is equally erroneous to assume they never are.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

It is a shame you don't believe in souls.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Oh, and BTW if your criteria for intelligence is appreciation of Euripides, then you can count 98% of humans in the 'this animal is ignorant so do whatever you want with them' category.



posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

As you can see the proof is in the pudding. Thanks for doing your part to talk sense to brick walls.


(post by soulpowertothendegree removed for a manners violation)

posted on Aug, 16 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: RealTruthSeeker Good topic!!!! I think that is the unexamined belief that most humans hold toward other sentient beings. They do it, because that makes the torture and slaughtering of these creatures acceptable. Otherwise, how could we possibly continue with this insane behavior.

I believe that nonhuman creatures are much closer to source, they have a balanced connection to all other living things in the web of life. What we have done to them as humans, is the greatest of all of our atrocities, I would also include the abuse of children with that. The human race collectively is sociopathic in the way we relate to the planet and all living things. Of course, we don't have self respect so I guess what we do is not surprising. The self indulgent , myopic behavior that most of us display is nothing more than ego, out of control.




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