``

from what i've gleaned from the scriptures

is that the Bible God is not to chastize the world until
the Bowls and Vials judgements, sometime future.

the Sundra earthquake (an active & dangerous zone)
and resulting tsunami are extraordinary periodic occurrances.

The populations and tourists that chose to be there,
along the sea-shores, should have had this scenario
at least in the back of one's mind as a unlikely but
possible eventuality.

don't they ride out the monsoons and cyclones and
hurricanes and el ninos in that part of the world every year?
and neither a God or Devil is accused of sponsering any of those...

0 points

"Many who are good with words are without words describing the scenario in Asia. "The planet vibrated," said the head of Italy's National Geophysics Institute. The earth wobbled on its axis and permanently altered the regional map. The Island of Sumatra moved 70 feet and many islands disappeared. Time stood still for three microseconds. The impact was equal to one million atom bombs."

"The tsunami of December 26, 2004, may go down as one of the world's worst disasters. One woman on camera screamed, "God, how could you let this happen"? He did allow it to happen. Bad things happen even though we have a good God. As a matter of fact, it was likely a message from God although He takes no delight in obliterating villages and life.

As my good friend Bill Koenig points out in his December 30 "Koenig's Eye View from the White House", the nations affected are among the leaders of Christian persecution in the world. And as Bill also states as it concerns the question of why did God allow this, does He owe man anything, including an explanation?

At exactly the same time on December 26, 2003, an earthquake struck Iran killing 25,000. And Sri Lanka, like Iran, refuses any aid from Israel though they are experts in disasters. The stench of the Israeli hand reaching out to them is greater than the stench of the corpses to be buried in mass graves. The nations would rather loathe Israel than receive her aid and possibly save lives."

The above is from: THE "BIRTH PANGS" INTENSIFY--Jan Markell
Olive Tree Ministries, Inc.
www.olivetreeviews.org

I want to remind you all of something:

In 1970's the Indonesian Government murdered in cold blood 250,000 East Timoreans. In 2004 nature killed near 100,000(400,000 possibly) Indonesians.

Can you see how nature works and how we affect it.

We could get technical and stated that America ebett Indonesia in murdering over 200,000 East Timorean; also, we could state that Global Warming caused this massive Earth Quake and other such calamaties..

Deep

Originally posted by Mizar
Depends on what God you are refering to. As a catholic I say that no wouldn't happen with the catholic God.

Christian god wouldnt do it aint he done it before.

These consipracy threads about this horror are kind of bad im sorry but alot of people have died lets respect them and not say they are guilty of some grate sin ( How any child could be labled that is beyond me)

At twelve o'clock tonight i will be thinking of the people lost this past weeks.

May they rest in peace

We can just as easily flip this over and opine that it's God's Blessing because He's taking people out of suffering from the effects of the nwo.

--or the effects of pollution;
--or the effects of "over-population"
--or bioweapons propagation.

Is God inflicting suffering by removing 125,000 people? Good question. Maybe not.

I don't get it. If you believe in a God that is all powerful, and is in control of all and etc etc, whether or not this was directly caused by God, or done through "natural phenomenon", God would still be responsible for it.

Originally posted by babloyi
I don't get it. If you believe in a God that is all powerful, and is in control of all and etc etc, whether or not this was directly caused by God, or done through "natural phenomenon", God would still be responsible for it.

"Come let us reason together."

All powerful? Does that mean, He CHOOSES TO CONTROL everything?

If that were so, He would be a dictator; and free will would be a sham.

You and I and ever human spirit/soul we contact makes choices. God makes choices. It's all a big chess game. And the end has no winners.

What? you say? How can the end have no winners?

Because the people who are "Good" end up paying all the bills for the people who are "Bad" who don't GET what good MEANS. The predatory, evil, spoiled, exploitative, wasteful people take what's good and ruin it; and the Good people forgive them and try to make something out of what's left. By the time everybody gets their experience, there's nothing good LEFT at all. It's gone--everything God made, to teach us.

It's called "experiencing cause-and-effect." That's the Lesson, in a nutshell.

So you get your choices and I get my choices; and God keeps working at recycling, making silk purses out of sow's ears, to restore the environment so the next generation and the next and the next . . . can have their experiences.

Imagine a dozen jugglers all juggling at once to music that is conducted by a blind man. That's the challenge of living by Holy Spirit, and not by appearances.

Please give up the idea of God as Dictator, Thug and Warden. He's more like the mother of lots of newborns who still poop in their diapers--all at once.



[edit on 31-12-2004 by defrag99]

It is interesting that you bring up free will. In another thread (I can't really be bothered to look it up right now ) I asked the same thing. If God IS all powerful, omnipotent, omni-all that stuff, then that God should know everything that is going to happen, and then free will is an illusion anyways. So, either God is not all powerful, or God does not exist, or free will is an illusion.
Also, if God is all powerful, then this God would have no CHOICE but to have a hand in all matters. Everything that happens would be a direct result of God. Even if you say that God just started up the system, that God would still be able to stop it. Sort of like having all those dominoes in a row, and knocking down the first one. If you so wish, you can block one of them, and break the chain.

You can break thought chains all day long, and it doesn't matter.

Paradoxes break the chain. Double-binds break the chain. Contradictions break the chain.

All the thoughts in the world don't amount to a hill of beans. This means, your opinions about God don't affect God.

Your opinions about Free Will do not establish whether you are free to use your will or not.

Your opinions about what constitutes proof don't stand a chance, either.

God is not about subjective thoughts and opinions only. He exists in the Objective, in the Physical, in the Subjective and in the Cosmic.

He is larger than your opinion about Him.

So, have at it--kid.

And from the perspective of a Cosmic Being who occupies Objective, Physical, Subjective and Cosmic realities, YOU and I and everybody here are ALL JUST KIDS. Our opinions don't count for much.

Go ahead! Rule that God does not exist, and see how far that gets you. Why not? It's a gamble and a risk. So, what's the payoff?

(Oblivion--which is forget-full-ness.)




[edit on 31-12-2004 by defrag99]

Garbage in Garbage out

as posted by ZeroDeep
We could get technical and stated that America ebett Indonesia in murdering over 200,000 East Timorean; also, we could state that Global Warming caused this massive Earth Quake and other such calamaties..

Not so...inconclusive, incorrect, and unfounded.
You were better off sticking with proving that God had a hand in this terrible tragedy.




seekerof

[edit on 31-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by defrag99
You can break thought chains all day long, and it doesn't matter.
Paradoxes break the chain. Double-binds break the chain. Contradictions break the chain.
All the thoughts in the world don't amount to a hill of beans. This means, your opinions about God don't affect God.
Your opinions about Free Will do not establish whether you are free to use your will or not.
Your opinions about what constitutes proof don't stand a chance, either.
God is not about subjective thoughts and opinions only. He exists in the Objective, in the Physical, in the Subjective and in the Cosmic.
He is larger than your opinion about Him.
So, have at it--kid.
And from the perspective of a Cosmic Being who occupies Objective, Physical, Subjective and Cosmic realities, YOU and I and everybody here are ALL JUST KIDS. Our opinions don't count for much.
Go ahead! Rule that God does not exist, and see how far that gets you. Why not? It's a gamble and a risk. So, what's the payoff?
(Oblivion--which is forget-full-ness.)

[edit on 31-12-2004 by defrag99]

I never said that God does not exist, I only listed it as one of the possibilities. I realise that my opinion on God does not change what God is, but who is to say WHAT God is? How is your idea of God better than mine?
About paradoxes, if an omni-all that stuff God designed the universe, you would have to assume it is mathematically/physically perfect model, with no paradoxes or contradictions, unless God put them their purposely.

Originally posted by babloyi

About paradoxes, if an omni-all that stuff God designed the universe, you would have to assume it is mathematically/physically perfect model, with no paradoxes or contradictions, unless God put them their purposely.

Of course, He allowed paradoxes, contradictions, illusions and pretenses.

Can you imagine how boring our experience would be if everything were flatly predictable, as the workings of a clock?

We'd all die of sheer boredom!

At least, as immortal spirits, we have some danger and risks to deal with.

You wanna sleep under a banana tree all day and propagate all night, or what? Nah. Too limiting.

I wonder if God has to deal with danger and risk, Himself.

I wonder if He (Whatever HE "is") is absolutely invulnerable; or whether His Heart, like ours, can be broken and crushed by grief.

I wonder whether He programs the paradoxes and inconveniences--or merely lets them play out.

I wonder . . . who He relates to directly and what it's like to know Him personally.

Originally posted by defrag99

Originally posted by babloyi
I don't get it. If you believe in a God that is all powerful, and is in control of all and etc etc, whether or not this was directly caused by God, or done through "natural phenomenon", God would still be responsible for it.

If that were so, He would be a dictator; and free will would be a sham.

You and I and ever human spirit/soul we contact makes choices. God makes choices. It's all a big chess game. And the end has no winners.

What? you say? How can the end have no winners?


It's called "experiencing cause-and-effect." That's the Lesson, in a nutshell.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by defrag99]

There is no free-will with cause and effect. I have about as much as a choice as water popping out of a balloon has a choice as to where it lands.

And no, there was no Zeus at work here, it was nature and nature alone.

. . . yes, and by learning to cooperate with nature, we become wise.

. . . Is that not correct?

God had nothing to do with this......are you for real, what could they have done to deserve this? I don't prescribe to the elitist attitude that most religons purvey - Saying that I am chosen because I happened to be born here instead of there is entirely without perspective...

Originally posted by defrag99

. . . yes, and by learning to cooperate with nature, we become wise.

. . . Is that not correct?

It depends on what you mean by cooperate and what you mean by wise. If you are trying to say that if we dont pollute our planet than natural diasters wouldnt occur then you are wrong, they will occur regardless of pollution, and sometimes, people die. Nature doesnt care, its not a conscience being, nature isnt even one thing, its a collection of things that have cause and effect.

Originally posted by Wask
If it was Gods judgement then he hit the wrong place and the wrong people.

Are you a GOD? how do you know what he's up to, he has a reason for every thing seeing he's in charge.......

Of course not! But we visit.

The same laws of nature that spell our destruction can also be our blessings. It's a perfect order. We do not complain when they work for us, we only complain when they work against us.