Israeli comments of ‘Nagasaki and Hiroshima’ as model for dealing with Iran

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

What's your definition of terrorism? Does blowing up schools count as terrorism? And what about intentionally targeting civilians during airstrikes? Because Israel did all of these and more just in their latest war against the Palestinians. Israeli officials even have a policy people call "Mowing the Grass" that you should look up.

Mowing the grass in Gaza

Mowing the Grass and Taking Out the Trash

Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to resist an illegal occupation? I don't like violence but even I'd resist if a foreign country invaded my neighborhood.

You know what terrorism means. We can discuss the meaning of terrorism in another thread. Have the courage to write a thread about that. Now back to THE SPEECH and the OP.

LOL Like I have to answer to you. You spoke of terrorism so I pointed out Israel's actual acts of terrorism. How is Israel not committing terrorism when they blow up schools with people still in them? How is that not terrorism?

As I said they launch missiles from houses and schools against Israel. Israel bombs military targets. Tell the Palestinians to stop being such cowards and fight a fair war. Tell them to stop using children as human shields. Israel do not do that. Tell me one instance where Israel has used civilians as a human shield.

Israel even fly over and drop leaflets warning the civilians in advance to get clear. They can not give a longer warning because that will give the enemy time to move their military hardware.

Schools and UN shelters are military targets? Let me get this straight, you consider schools, UN shelters, and apartment buildings legitimate military targets? If so, how's that any different than terrorism? I mean this literally. We would demonize extremist groups for attacking these exact same places with the exact same reasoning. But it's ok if a government does it?

And how can you call for a "fair" fight when Israel controls Palestinian resources & has all of the weapons? How is that "fair"? Israel withholds Palestinian resources any time they feel like, are blockading the Gaza Strip, and literally have the best weapons available to the West. The Palestinians have homemade "rockets" which look like glorified fireworks. Israel has tanks, helicopters, aircraft, submarines, and nuclear bombs. The Palestinians throw rocks & shoot homemade rockets. How is Israel fighting "fairly"?

The Palestinians resist Israel's illegal occupation in spite of this massive arms difference. I don't consider that "cowardice" at all. I think it's much more "cowardly" to pick a fight w/Iran while simultaneously begging the US to save it from the very fight it's provoking!

14,000 rockets and mortar bombs is not a few rocks and stones.

"The M-302 rocket is a Syrian-made munition that can launch a 375-pound warhead as far as 125 miles. According to Israeli media reports, the model intercepted on March 6, 2014 was an A302, which is five meters long and with a total weight of 500 kilograms. It has a range of 90 kilometers and carries a 170 kilogram warhead."

There is no illegal occupation. You are saying it is that. International Law does not think so. Get yourself a good lawyer then and fight your case if you feel that strongly about it.

Europe treated Israel like dirt quite frankly. There was no choice. Survival meant retrieving the homeland.

For everything fired at Israel there is a response. It exists. It is a full armed state with a nuclear deterrent. There is a huge diaspora across the whole world. Jews are intertwined with Western history, its institutions, etc, and plenty of what the West is in its identity came from Jewish invention and creativity.

Sorry, I will have to leave it at that. I am the only one who has bothered to challenge the OP and it is hard to do this when pelted with so many members. I think I did a reasonable job at putting an alternative view across and wanted to do justice to the Law Centre speech when I saw it being misrepresented and twisted.

Hating Jews? See how far that will get you, probably metaphorically in a bunker committing suicide.

a reply to: Revolution9

Sweet little Palestine that uses children as human shields and propaganda fodder.

People really keep spouting this propaganda? Out of all the international journalist that was in Gaza during the last war not one reported that children was being used as human shields.

At least they could launch their rockets from military positions away from civilian population, but fat chance of that, eh.

Seeing how Gaza is the largest open air prison on the planet good luck on being able to do that.

a reply to: Revolution9

There is no illegal occupation. You are saying it is that. International Law does not think so.

You know nothing of international law. The law states that it is illegal to annex land by force which is exactly what Israel did. It is also illegal to allow their citizens to move onto occupied land Israel has also done this when they allow the claim jumpers they call "settlers" to live there.

Europe treated Israel like dirt quite frankly. There was no choice. Survival meant retrieving the homeland.

No Europe didn't just Germany. As far as the anti-Semitism that was being felt in Europe you can thank Theodor Herzl for that who said it should be encouraged. It is also the homeland of Christianity so if the feel threatened do they have the right to go in slaughter the people living there and claim the land as theirs?

Hating Jews? See how far that will get you, probably metaphorically in a bunker committing suicide.

The Hitler reference? Typical people don't support everything Israel does call them a Nazi let's not point out how Israel is acting like Nazi Germany.

a reply to: Revolution9

Then ask why Palestinian terrorists launch rockets from densely populated districts, quite literally from civilian houses where children are living?

You're asking yourself the wrong questions I'm afraid. The question you should be asking is why do Palestinians WANT to fire rockets at Israel? You simply cannot keep people under a 50 year occupation....slaughter them at will, and expect that they won't eventually try to fight back against their oppressor.

As to why they fire from civilian areas....Gaza is the most densely populated open air prison in the world. Israel control absolutely everything that goes in and out. Where else are they to go? Does that justify the indiscriminate use of artillery in civilian areas? Also....where is the Israeli EVIDENCE that this is happening?

They do it so Israel has no choice, but to bomb civilian areas to defend its own.

Ah....the tired rant of the tyrant. The Palestinians have no army, no navy, no airforce, no tanks, no jets, no laser guided munitions, no Apache attack helicopters, no nuclear weapons....Israel does. It has the 6th largest military on Earth. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Palestinians pose any real threat to Israel? Yet Israel constantly slaughters LARGE number of civilians, and constantly annexes more of their land, demolishes their homes....which is in direct conflict with International Law and are considered by the entire civilized world as war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The Palestinians have every right to defend themselves from this shameful aggression from Israel.

The speech is intelligent. It is not that of a crazy man as the OP is suggesting.

Most of the world disagrees. Perhaps it is time that Israel steps back and takes a look at what it has become...reminds me of an old saying...."be careful the shadow you chase....is not the one you cast"

Even the US is finding increasingly tough to shield Israel in light of the massively one sided slaughter and continued land theft. If Israel continues....it will find itself isolated and cut off from the rest of the world.

"We are committed to Israeli law, We are committed to International law"

This is an utter lie and I will not dignify it with an answer.

"We will warn civilians".

I've seen how this is done....a small artillery shell or missile is fired onto the roof of a Palestinian home....a few seconds or minutes later, the house is leveled, killing everyone inside. If Israel is feeling merciful they will send out automated cell messages....but with no suggestion as to where would be a safe place to go....my,my,my isn't Israel merciful?

But quite seriously....where are they supposed to go? Would you venture outside knowing that missiles were about rain down? These aren't fighters we're talking about here...men, women, children, the elderly....I'm sure they are terrified out of their minds.

It is NOWHETRE in the speech.

It is certainly implied by the reference to Truman's "decision". Just because they didn't come right out and say it....does not mean that it wasn't implied....which it CERTAINLY was.


In closing....there is simply no way to justify the continued occupation, or the wanton slaughter....the slow motion genocide of the Palestinian people.

FREE PALESTINE.

A sea of glass policy would solve all middle east issues once and for all. So what, it is a policy option and as an option just the mere reminder that it is an option if faced with more casualties on your own side, is a powerful card to play, and it will always be played. The Russians remind the world all the time that they are a nuclear power proving the card is not out of style.

I just love watching the Palestinian TV show with the Mullah Mouse, he tells kids to schtik dynamite in their rearendas and blow themselves up and become martyrs.... and shame to the Jews, they all should move to where the Hamas rockets fall.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

A sea of glass policy would solve all middle east issues once and for all.

These are the rantings of a madman.

In letting loose a nuclear weapon...it would contaminate the entire middle east and cause many hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties...maybe MILLIONS...both from the initial explosion and the radiation poisoning after.

This simply cannot be allowed to happen.

a reply to: Revolution9
I don't know why you bother. None of these clowns have ever been to Israel. They don't know what it means to deal with an enemy who has been taught since birth kill Jews kill the Jews kill the Jews.
In textbooks at mosque on the streets.
Kill.
They have taken billions in aid money and constructed a tunnel Network under their country.
They don't Make their own electricity.
They Don't make any factories.
Not one desalination plant.
But they encourage their children to become a "shaheed" martyr.

Israel provides water gas electric and other utilities to all of Palestine for free( since they haven't paid the bill in years)
All the while 1.2 million Arabs live peacefully as Israeli citizens.

I think the best thing isreal can possibly do is give the Palestinians their own State And watch how badly these murderers will fail without someone to blame for their problems

originally posted by: manuelram16
and shame to the Jews, they all should move to where the Hamas rockets fall.

In fact they seem remarkably good at avoiding casualties, 0.174% death per attack, 10% injured.

Since the blockade of Gaza: still 0.17% casualties, 5.63% injured.

This is another site that has statistics across the century. There is also a 9k victim of terrorism/Other which includes much earlier dates.

You might also want to educate yourself on the death toll of last year's war, there are a lot of mainstream media articles like this, but you can find more or less the same rates everywhere.

But go ahead with your rhetoric, generally when advocates of this slaughter are presented facts the discussion becomes about the suffering during the holocaust or the right to self-determinate, rarely a discussion about the enourmous disparity or UN reports.

a reply to: Revolution9

You have found one instance of it, an isolated incident, and the soldiers were convicted for misconduct.

I used that example because it is fact not accusation , there are plenty of accusations of Israeli troops using children as human shields and deliberately targeting them , it's the oldest trick in the book , if you want to hurt someone hurt their kids.
Isolated incident ? , if you choose to believe that then that's for you , the link I posted in regard to the UN shows it isn't isolated and they've been doing it for years.

You know how many instances of brutality by Palestinians upon Israeli civilians there are.

Far less than the other way round , you are a supporter of Israel so are more than willing to buy their narrative , I am just a Brit who has watched the injustice against the Palestinian people and illegal actions of Israel throughout my lifetime , my vision is unhindered by loyalty.

No it does not. It bombs military targets.

The problem is they class the West Bank and Gaza Strip as military targets , it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

That is why the U.N has no tight case against Israel because Gaza is using tactics like that.

The UN has a case they just don't have the balls to prosecute it , how many UN resolutions is Israel in breach of ?
How much Palestinian land have they stolen since the 67 border agreement ?

There is plenty of ammo to use on the U.N, too, like Child sexual abuse by UN peacekeepers, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Ammo ?

Gaza plays a vile game doing this. Gortex, go change International Law then you will have a case. In the mean time it is just tit for tat, pointless diatribes all round.

You're free to believe as you choose but the fact are their for all to see.

a reply to: Mastronaut

Pardon me sir. Have you ever even been to israel or the Palestinian controlled areas?

a reply to: dashen

oh ok , us clowns haven't been to Israel . have u been in gaza ? have you been in tehran ?

since i know the answer to these questions , then i politely ask u to Shut The Hell Up .

u have some nerve talking about free electricity and nonsense like that . actually gaza HAS it's own power plant which is built by international donations . what you said is absolute BULLOCKS as brits say .

funny you should mention that since every now and then the electricity goes off due to inhumane siege thats put on gaza every now and then .

every power plant needs fuel to run and guess what ? Israel cuts that every time they feel like it . or bombs the sh!!t out of it

the result is :

www.theguardian.com...

www.presstv.ir...

www.al-monitor.com...#


but since i'm not a liar like you , i've gotta admit that a proportion of gaza's needs is indeed provided by Israel .

but thats no act of humanity , here is why :

www.al-monitor.com...#



========================================================

people in this forum have an IQ above 100-110 , so please !

a reply to: dashen

I don't know why you bother. None of these clowns have ever been to Israel.

Someone says something you don't like (the truth) and you feel you have the right to call them clowns ?
Nice.

a reply to: gortex

Yes clowns. People who act foolishly and make me laugh.
i have been to israel. Gaza. My father in tehran. Many friends from Iran actually.
You believe very strongly in your propaganda, i beleive my own eyes.

a reply to: dashen

They have taken billions in aid money and constructed a tunnel Network under their country.

The tunnels provided a means of transporting necessary goods into the Gaza strip. Given the complete blockade of Gaza and the ridiculous restrictions on normal everyday items that are not allowed....I can't blame them. Were some weapons smuggled in? Perhaps....but Israel has provided no proof of it...so who really knows? In any event....the weapons don't seem to be doing them a whole lot of good...the death tolls from recent Israeli slaughters bears this out.

They don't Make their own electricity.

Its difficult to make electricity when the vast majority of your infrastructure has been destroyed by Israeli airstrikes. Don't forget that Israel controls everything that is built in the territories..and that the Palestinians pay a premium for the power they buy from Israel. Who benefits?

They Don't make any factories.

In the Gaza strip most factories were destroyed by Israeli bombing long ago. In the West Bank there are any number of factories....most of them Israeli...in direct violation of International Law I might add. Israel just can't help but exploit the Palestinians in any way they can.

None of these clowns have ever been to Israel.

I have been to Israel and the West Bank more than 7 times over the last 15 years on business. I have seen the horror of Israeli occupation with my own eyes...so you can lay off the clown talk.

a reply to: deadcalm
Why is egypt blowing up Palestinian controlled tunnels?
Why do these tunnels terminate under isreali territory?
Why are there 1.2 million Arab israelis who live like civilized human beings?
Besides the fact that never before 1948 was there ever such a thing as the "Palestinians"

originally posted by: deadcalm
a reply to: dashen


I have been to Israel and the West Bank more than 7 times over the last 15 years on business. I have seen the horror of Israeli occupation with my own eyes...so you can lay off the clown talk.

So do tell. Why my isreli arab neighbors in Jerusalem are such sweethearts and if i drive a few miles over to gaza they would shred a jew to pieces by hand?
I would compare it to driving to the south side of Chicago

Wow, someone called out Israel on their atrocities? How dare you!

originally posted by: amicktd
Wow, someone called out Israel on their atrocities? How dare you!

you say atrocities I say feeble way of dealing with an aggressive enemy.
Israel has blood on his hands sure.
But Palestinians drag their own people by ropes attached to motorcycles for anyone caught collaborating with Israel.
with hamas and the Palestinian Authority having AK 47 shoot outs in the streets for control of territories


No that's all ok.
Using their cars to run over civilians is a form of protest right?

Children Saturday morning cartoons in Palestine advocated the murder of Jews
. That's just cute I guess.
you people are really demented.
Imagine if you will what a Palestinian controlled territory will look like in 20 or 30 years.
think Saudi Arabia on steroids with a bomb belt and no money

Why not just do an image search for Palestinian parade.
I think that will sum up the problem rather well.
Thousands of masked men and children wearing bomb belts and carrying AK 47s.
That is their parade.
that is their culture.
that is what everyone here is trying to defend?
When a suicide bomber blows up little Israeli women and children Palestinians sing and hand out candy in the streets.
on 9/11 the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank were singing and handing out candy.
I suspect the defenders of these people are much like them