MH17: 'Russian missile parts' at Ukraine crash site

originally posted by: LesBrocknar
a reply to: dragonridr

Look it up for your self you wanted to see the pattern here's another. This one is from an actual buk manual. Seems I have no problem finding information on it why do you?

I have a problem with finding consistent information, sofar it exploded from above, below, left, right of the plane, or different combinations of that, and I have seen a variety of supposed blast patterns.

Shall I go with the latest one you posted? So it exploded from the front and below with a 360 degree round and forward blast?

There's that scraping sound again!

originally posted by: LesBrocknar
a reply to: dragonridr

Wrong plane try the one he's filming wow really!?

Now you are just trying to be dishonest. Wow indeed.

This is obviously the cockpit of a Su25. Do I really need to go and make a side by side comparison with little arrows pointing out the similarities?

Or are you just going to admit that you are lying on purpose.

Come on now, these aren't honest mistakes anymore.

No you just don't know your aircraft the so 25 cockpit looks like thisupload.wikimedia.org...

What your looking at is the cockpit of su 39 frogfoot. It has a higher curling and as you pointed out can go faster. It is the wrong plane as I said before.


www.globalsecurity.org...

a reply to: Zaphod58

What are you saying?

a reply to: LesBrocknar

I'm not saying anything. You asked for sources for what he was talking about, so I provided them. The Su-39 has a higher ceiling and to speed while retaining the planform of the -25.

a reply to: dragonridr

Stop confusing the issue with actual facts! I'm outta here.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The comment you responded to was not refering to the airplane but the BUK images he posted.

So this plane is considered a SU25 right. Same looks, same radar signature?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: dragonridr

Stop confusing the issue with actual facts! I'm outta here.

Sorry I just find it funny that someone who knows nothing about avionics is going to argue with experts from companies like janes. Because he thinks he knows more about missiles aircraft and damage then they do. Bit yet can't even tell the difference between one plane and another.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: dragonridr

Stop confusing the issue with actual facts! I'm outta here.

Sorry I just find it funny that someone who knows nothing about avionics is going to argue with experts from companies like janes. Because he thinks he knows more about missiles aircraft and damage then they do. Bit yet can't even tell the difference between one plane and another.

a reply to: dragonridr

Bit yet can't even tell the difference between one plane and another.

But they are both SU25's officially.

a reply to: LesBrocknar

You can't tell type from radar signature. It looks almost the same. The are obvious differences to the trained eye.

originally posted by: LesBrocknar
a reply to: dragonridr

Bit yet can't even tell the difference between one plane and another.

But they are both SU25's officially.

Problem is Ukraine doesn't have the su 39 unless you mean to imply it was a Russian jet?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: LesBrocknar

Su-39/Su-25TM

According to your source it entered service in 1996. The vid was shot in 1995.

Your source says it can go 2550 kmh. In the vid, the meter only goes to 1000 kmh.

Seems to me the plane in the vid is not a SU39.

a reply to: LesBrocknar

Shall I go with the latest one you posted? So it exploded from the front and below with a 360 degree round and forward blast?

What about the first illustration?

Here you go straight from the good people who manufacture the BUK...



tass.ru...

The blast pattern of the BUK that they even say took out MH 17.

Clearly a Su25 cockpit, not Su39.

Not falling for the lies, despite the group effort.......

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And where did it explode in relation to the plane?

a reply to: LesBrocknar

It's also wrong on several details. There have been about 10-12 built. It's undergone testing in combat in Chechnya but isn't officially operational. The top speed on every other source shows 950km/h.A top speed of over 2500 km/h would be over Mach 2, and there's no way that design gets that fast.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Look at the cockpit pics, it simply is not a SU39.

originally posted by: LesBrocknar

Clearly a Su25 cockpit, not Su39.

Not falling for the lies, despite the group effort.......

I suggest you go back to your video and take a look check radio gun sights and the aux panel.. Again wrong aircraft the su 39 is an improvement made to su 25. NATO gave it a new designation because of the improvements. Prototypes were sent to Afghanistan for testing. You know like in the video that's called flight tests as they film performance.

In Afghanistan Russia had a real problem there was just many places out of reach of the so 25 engine was under powered and the wings didn't provide 'em ohhh lift for high altititudes. In most countries that's not a problem in Afghanistan it was a huge problem. And look at the jet they are filming notice only 1 person odd for a 2 seat design.

a reply to: LesBrocknar

According to your source it entered service in 1996. The vid was shot in 1995.

And Ukraine do not even have an SU 39.

Aircraft Origin Type Versions Numbers[51][52] Comments
Trainer Aircraft
Aero L-39 Albatros Czechozlovakia Training L-39/L-39M1 34[53] 3 L-39M1 Ukrainian upgrade (1 in 2011, 2 in June 2012). In 2012 12 additional aircraft were repaired.[54]
Yakovlev Yak-52 USSR Training Yak-52M 20 80 delivered.
Fighter Aircraft
Sukhoi Su-27 USSR Air Superiority Fighter Su-27
Su-27S
Su-27C
Su-27P
Su-27UB 45[55] 55 delivered.[54][56]
Mikoyan MiG-29 USSR Multirole Aircraft MiG-29
MiG-29S
MiG-29A
MiG-29UB
MiG-29MU1 80[57] 80 in service in 2013, 45 MiG-29s aircraft were captured by the Russian Armed Forces on Belbek Air Base during the 2014 Crimean crisis,[55] 3 MiG-29S and one MiG-29UB.[58][59][60] 37 MiG-29s were handed back to Ukraine by late May 2014.[61] Five MiG-29MU1 Ukrainian upgrade (1 in 2011). Additional two were renovated in 2012. Initially mothballed, the fleet of MiG-29s was in April 2014 restored to active service as a result of the unrest in Ukraine,[62]
Ground Attack
Sukhoi Su-25 USSR Close air support Su-25
Su-25UB
Su-25K
Su-25UTG
Su-25M1
Su-25UBM1 40[55] 46 delivered. Four Su-25M1 and one Su-25UBM1 were upgraded in 2010-2011.[63][64]
8 upgraded to Su-25M1: #04 Blue, #05 Blue, #06 Blue, #07 Blue, #08 Blue, #38 Blue, #40 Blue, #41 Blue.
1 upgraded to Su-25UBM1: #62 Blue.
Bomber Aircraft
Sukhoi Su-24 USSR Tactical Bomber Su-24M 25[55] 120 delivered. 95 are in reserve
Reconnaissance
Sukhoi Su-24 USSR Reconnaissance Su-24MR 20[53] 23 delivered.
Antonov An-30 USSR Reconnaissance An-30B 1[53] 1 was shot down over Slavyansk during the Donbass War
UAV
Tupolev Tu-143 USSR Reconnaissance drone/UAV Tu-143 50, most in storage or decommissioned Several were spotted during the War in Donbass and Russian separatist forces downed a Tu-143 in August 2014 suggesting that the Ukrainian military has brought it back into operational status
Tu-141 USSR Reconnaissance drone/UAV Tu-141 68 In 2014, the air force announced that it will be bringing back 68 aircraft that have been in reserve since the collapse of the Soviet Union, including the Tu-141 reconnaissance drone.
Transport Aircraft
Ilyushin Il-76 USSR Transport Il-76MD 19[65]
Antonov An-70 USSR Transport An-70 2
Antonov An-70 Ukraine Transport An-70 2 To date, Ukraine has received two AN-70 prototypes.
Antonov An-2 USSR
Poland Transport An-2 2
Antonov An-24 USSR Transport An-24 2 4 are in reserve
Antonov An-26 Ukraine Transport An-26 28 Several upgraded as An-26 "Vita" flying hospitals. 14 modernized AN-26 will be transferred to the Ukrainian Army in the ATO Area.[66]
Helicopters
Mil Mi-8/17 USSR Transport helicopter Mi-17
Mi-8MT 19 Around 100 delivered. By the beginning of the 2014 combat in southeastern Ukraine had 14-16 operational Mi-17.
Mi-8MSB1 Mi-8MSB-B USSR Transport helicopter Mi-8MT 7 Modernized by the Ukrainian Air Force, was due to enter the serial modernization/production in late 2011.[67][68][69]
Mil Mi-24 USSR Attack/Transport helicopter Mi-24P
Mi-24V
Mi-24VP
Mi-24PM 30
H125 France Light Transport helicopter ? [70]
Mi-2MSB2 Poland
USSR Light Transport helicopter Mi-2 7[69] Modernized by the Ukrainian Air Force, was due to enter the serial modernization/production in late 2011.[67]

en.wikipedia.org...

So now we have this...

Su-39 Frogfoot (Su-25T or Su-25TM)

www.globalsecurity.org...

Now refer to what I put in bold above and tell me if you see an SU 39, or an Su 25T, or an SU 25TM?

We can now rule that plane out as Ukraine has not one of them...but Russia does.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And Ukraine do not even have an SU 39.

Stop wasting space. I never said they did and was already mentioned.