EPA is responsible for a devastating toxic spill into the Animas River.

originally posted by: Reflection
But what would you propose? That industry regulate themselves? Government bad, big business everyone's savior?

Streamlining would be a great start! As it presently stands (and I know this because I work in the industry) a proposed roadway requires no fewer than 4 agencies if it crosses a navigable waterway.
Corps of Engineers: Wetland permit, 404 permit, navigable waters permit
EPA: 404 permit, NPDES permit, SWPP permit, etc
Coast Guard: Bridge permit, navigable waters permit (with completely unique formatting and reported data than COE's navigable waters permit)
State level DEC: Everything from above plus...
FEMA also requires letters of map revisions if the floodplain is impacted.

The redundancy is outrageous. Additionally, you can (and do) encounter conflicting requirements between the agencies. One agency may require that you place riprap armor on an embankment to prevent erosion while the next agency refuses to permit that riprap because it could serve as a "fish trap" in tidal situations, leaving small sheltering fish high and dry.

Excessive government red tap BAD, common sense and an atmosphere a bit more manageable and geared towards growth GOOD.

Its starting to look like the EPA may have tried to cause a small spill over time and instead caused a disaster. They've been trying to get the area designated under Super Fund for decades and now they are pushing it again.

tavernkeepers.com...

And is the EPA responsible for this crap being there in the first place?

Rage on.

a reply to: WeRpeons
Oh well, I'm pretty sure somebody at EPA has a cousin, brother-in-law or frat buddies who own companies that will make this clean-up last long enough for their little company to make gazillions and they will all retire happy and rich. If the corporate world won't supply them with the work----well, governmental agencies aim to please their Masters.
Because it is a disaster they can award no-bid contracts. It wouldn't be the first time a "disaster" wasn't an accident.
How in the name of all that's holy would it be an "accident" to bulldoze the retaining wall of a containment pond?

read the letter to the editor written by Dave Taylor

www.silvertonstandard.com...


it won't let me do a cut and paste......

originally posted by: GovWatch79
Its starting to look like the EPA may have tried to cause a small spill over time and instead caused a disaster. They've been trying to get the area designated under Super Fund for decades and now they are pushing it again.

tavernkeepers.com...

This is a very serious matter if they did that.

Thanks for the post.

originally posted by: GovWatch79
Its starting to look like the EPA may have tried to cause a small spill over time and instead caused a disaster. They've been trying to get the area designated under Super Fund for decades and now they are pushing it again.

tavernkeepers.com...

originally posted by: LeslieD
read the letter to the editor written by Dave Taylor

www.silvertonstandard.com...


it won't let me do a cut and paste......

EPA's plans were published before hand, here's the news paper clipping and newspaper's site link:

EPA plan is really a "Superfund blitzkrieg"

Yes this letter was published in the July 30, 2015 edition of the Silverton Standard. -Mark Esper, editor and publisher.

-Image source
Silverton Standard

I saw on the news the other day that the EPA determined that there was no dander from this spill, tell that to the residents of the Grassy Narrows First Nation who have been fighting mercury pollution 40 years after it was not being dumped into their watershed.

Link: www.cbc.ca...

...any Indians sitting on land with mineral wealth that river runs through....just asking?

originally posted by: Edumakated
The EPA should get the same level of fines and punishment that any private enterprise would receive. If BP or some other large corporation did the same thing, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

How do you fine a public entity? If their budget suddenly increases due to a fine the public pays in taxes. It's the same reason we can't effectively fine police departments when they mess up.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
And is the EPA responsible for this crap being there in the first place?



Rage on.

That's actually a good question, but it really gets away from the primary complaint here. Based on all of their actions in the past, the EPA would absolutely be levying massive fines and damage fees to any compnay that had breached that debris dam, caused this spill, and ESPECIALLY waited days before alerting downstream authorities in all the affected and to-be affected states. That's the biggest part of this disaster... the EPA completely bricked their own rules and reporting requirements.

They also bricked other agency requirements. The Clean Water Act requires IMMEDIATE contacting of the National Response Center, State Emergency Response commission, and Local Emergency planning Committee upon discovery of a toxic spill. In addition, depending on where the spill has happened (flowing waters, roadway, tidal influenced area or ocean) the Corps, US Dept. of Transportation, or Coast Guard must be informed.

In this scenario, the SERCs and LEPCs for Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and California are required BY LAW to have been notified immediately following the EPA's call to the NRC. Whoever the EPA's "responsible charge" or project manager on site was should be brought into court EXACTLY the same as would happen if this was a private contractor who caused this spill and that PM failed to report properly.

This stuff is laid out very precisely in the law. If the EPA isn't going to hold themselves accountable to the same regulations they hold everyone else to, how are they any different than a group of local police officers who shake down and abuse the people they're supposed to serve and protect? Good for the goose, good for the gander.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
And is the EPA responsible for this crap being there in the first place?

Rage on.

And at this point, that doesn't matter.

What matters is who caused the spill and why. If the EPA caused the spill through their own negligence, it's the EPA's fault, not the fault of the company. After all, the EPA has taken responsibility for the mess by this point and it's their baby and their responsibility to follow their own rules and regulations just like every other entity they monitor has to.

And if they fail, they are presumably not above the same rules and regulations. Are they?

PS - You know what will happen with their new power plant and coal rules? They are going to be putting a lot of sites that are currently handling their own waste out of business and they will then be taking over a lot of these toxic pools. What does this say about their ability to handle it?

EPA's video of the disaster.....
wattsupwiththat.com...

can't believe I found it.....