#AllLivesMatter

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: DenyObfuscation

While a valid point, that is neither the issue not the discussion here.

Maybe it should be. Unless no one cares and just wants to bark up the wrong trees so to speak.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
I don't honestly believe in fair fights either, but an armed 28 YO against an unarmed 18 year old is probably not a fair fight. I shoot low mid torso, I blow his nuts off, pretty sure that will stop whatever he was going to do for a while, and no they are not hard targets. Anyone pointing a firearm at a LEO probably deserves what he gets. I am not anti gun, not anti cop, I have issues with an armed individual killing an unarmed one.

A fair fight is when there is an equal chance that the attacker or yourself might win. I don't know of anyone who wants a fair fight.

If someone is approaching me with the intent to do harm, then they get shot.

The easiest way to avoid getting shot, is to not attack me.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

Check my last post. I grew up poor too, with poor black people and poor hispanics and I saw my privilege work first hand. I never got in trouble for what my friends did even though I was doing the same things. Saw my black friends arrested for loitering on their own street corners and was told I shouldn't be hanging out in that neighborhood, my neighborhood.

Yeah all poor people get treated pretty badly. It doesn't compare to how black people are treated.

Oh please, as the only white kid in my neighborhood, I had to literally fight my way onto the football team... only to have the coach make me play center. I never saw this white privilege you speak of, unless you consider always being the target when we played suicide in the courtyard a privilege. lol

Well gosh. I grew up pretty well off. Was an Army brat. Lived all over the place. I had a mother and a father. Got punished a lot. (I had a smart-mouth as a child. No, really!)

But grew up respecting everyone based on their character.

#Poundsign

a reply to: beezzer
I was born in Southeast. I'm straight outta DC. (True story) A Cracka With A Slight Attitude.

#f@&! da criminals

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
I don't honestly believe in fair fights either, but an armed 28 YO against an unarmed 18 year old is probably not a fair fight. I shoot low mid torso, I blow his nuts off, pretty sure that will stop whatever he was going to do for a while, and no they are not hard targets. Anyone pointing a firearm at a LEO probably deserves what he gets. I am not anti gun, not anti cop, I have issues with an armed individual killing an unarmed one.

A shot liek you take is more likely to kill through sheer bloodloss. know how many major arteries run through there? At least if you shoot a baddie in the lung he might survive. AN da Un armed individual can get armed pretty quick if allowwed to get in arms length.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

You do realize there have been numerous people beaten to death by only hands and feet?

Not to mention the many cases of people involved in the average fist fight being punched and dying after they hit their head on the concrete. I have personally worked such a case.

Furthermore, you do realize that the body is full of arteries right?

Shooting in the arm (brachial artery), the leg (femoral artery), torso/pelvis (iliac artery), as well as many other areas of the body often results in death.

I won't even touch on how difficult it is to hit such a small target while being attacked and under pressure.

By the way, I have studied martial arts myself for twenty years. Tae Kwon Do, American Kempo, Mantis Kung Fu, Kali, and BJJ.

It doesn't mean much in a street fight. It only takes one blow and you're knocked out or dead.

I don't care how much martial arts experience one has, anyone can get hit with a "lucky" punch.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Kali74

*sigh*

As someone who grew up poor, do you really think that system doesn't hit poor whites too?

The main difference is that my parents ... yes, I guess it was my white privilege to have had both of them ... did everything they could to work, work, work to pay it off.

They didn't sit around blaming everyone else.

The problem is the system hits poor blacks harder. Let me give you a brief history lesson if you'll allow it.

According to the 1900 Census data, half of black men and 35% of black women in the US, who reported an occupation, were agricultural workers. At this point, 90.1% of black folks still lived in the South (3.6% in the Northeast, 5.8% in the Midwest and a mere .5% in the West) and nearly 76% of all black families lived in rural areas (as opposed to 25% of white families) and the percentage that owned their own home was less than half of what it was for whites.

A commonly accepted method for gauging educational attainment in this period of American history would be the literacy questions from the Census. Here are the historical percentages of those aged 10 and older, living in Southern states, who were illiterate, 1880 - 1900, with black people on the left and white people on the right:

1880 76.2% - 21.5%
1890 60.7% - 14.9%
1900 48.0% - 11.7%

Not surprisingly given birth years prior to 1845, in 1900 a whopping 93.4% of Southern black women and 86.7% of Southern black men over the age of 55 were illiterate. Also from Census data, school attendance by age in 1900 (left column males black/white, right column females black/white):

Ages 6 to 13 .... 37.8%-72.2% ... 41.9%-71.9%
Ages 14 to 17 ... 26.7%-47.9% ... 36.2%-51.5%
Ages 18 to 21 .... 6.8%-10.4% .... 5.9% - 8.6%

Estimates are that in 1900, the average black man in the US earned approximately 45% of what the average white man earned. Now that we've established some baseline measures in 1900, lets track the progress of black in their struggle to reach economic (and therefore social) parity with whites going forward.

Three decades after the Civil War, segregation, racism, racial violence (thousands of lynchings for example) and a complete lack of economic opportunity led waves of blacks to emigrate from the South, seeking employment in industrialized urban centers elsewhere in the country such as Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, New York, Newark, Philadelphia/Camden, NJ, Oakland, Los Angeles, etc. In the period between about 1900 and 1930, around 1.6 million black folks migrated in what would be the first wave of the The Great Migration and the numbers of blacks in non-agricultural jobs increased drastically. For example, between 1910 and 1920 alone, the number of blacks employed in industrial sectors doubled.

As you can imagine, the influx of black workers was met with resentment in many areas — particularly among poorer working class whites, including recent European immigrants who had begun to see their own statuses improving — but in other areas, blacks were finally beginning to experience some measure of economic success. Then economic disaster struck with the Great Depression eliminating jobs and stifling economic mobility which led to a significant lull in migration. It wasn't until the immediate build up to WW2 that migration picked up again as production ramped up. This led to a second and even larger wave of migration and in the 40's and 50's, another 2.5 million or so black people migrated; once more they migrated mostly into the industrial hubs. During the Great Depression, ground was lost and in many areas outside of the mostly unskilled, blue collar manufacturing sector, the employment gap had actually widened by 1940. Though black representation in white collar professions had more than doubled between 1900 and 1950 (1.8% vs 5.5%), whites males outpaced their black counterparts (14% in 1900 vs nearly 30% in 1950). Because of these and other factors (such as Northern unions denying membership to black workers and wage regression for blacks in the South), in 1940 the average black man's wage was only modestly better (3%) at 48% of that of the average white man's wage then it had been in 1900.

Migration continued in the 60's through tothe early 70's, with another 2.4 million blacks emigrating from the South. By 1970, only 53% of all blacks in the US were living in the South. The 60's and 70's also brought the largest gains toward economic parity/wage convergence. In 1970 the black unemployment rate was only about 6% and by 1975, the average black man was making about 75% of what the average white man was making and black and white women alike were more or less equal at about 55% of the average pay of a white man for black women and 57% for white women. Another positive development; the gap in the number of years of school attendance for males over the age of 20 had also shrunk to 1.3 years (11.2 for blacks vs 12.5 for whites).

Then disaster struck again. Manufacturing employment peaked in 1974-75 and then began its notorious, percipitous decline. According to BLS statistics, by 1983 the rate of unemployment had just about doubled for whites (8.4%) and tripled for blacks (19.5%). The trend toward wage convergence had reversed and the wage gap widened. In 1985, black men had regressed to 69.7% of what white men were making. Similarly, the wage gap had doubled between black and white women (57.1% vs 63%). Interestingly (for some, to others its exactly what would be expected), if you were to examine historic unemployment rates (at least for the last 60 or so years) you'll find that black unemployment tracks very well with white unemployment and is often about double that of white unemployment. This should make it pretty clear to you that black unemployment has little or nothing to do with your apparent premise of lazy black folks who "sit around blaming everyone else" (unlike your hardworking parents of course who clearly worked harder than everyone elses').

This is how we ended up with cities like Detroit with large populations of poor blacks. People moving across the country to work jobs that disappeared and who were hit disproportionately harder by job loss and who also lacked the inter-generational and familial wealth of the whites to fall back on, the sort of wealth that acts like fat in the human body.

It wasn't the New Deal and its safety net programs, it wasn't an increase in births out of wedlock (in fact, it's seems that the 20% decrease in marriage rates among blacks between 1960 and 1980 is largely attributable to failing economic opportunity, more so even than to factors like women's liberation and improved contraception) and it had absolutely nothing to do with rap music. You see, what you've labeled as "decay" isn't the cause of the present situation, it's the effect.

I'd like to leave you with one final thing, a chart from the Washington Post, showing incarceration rates 1960-2010:



Now please, stop making ridiculous statements. If you consider the data objectively, eschewing the corrosive (and frankly stupid) rhetoric of right-wing identity politics, it's no great mystery how we got to where we are today.

a reply to: ketsuko

The difficulty with this statement is that the black community has often decayed to the point where it is hard to know how much of the disparity if actually created by unfair treatment and how much is created by the decayed family and moral structure of the community as a whole.

What do you mean by "Black Community"? Can you please define that?

Personally, I only see an American issue and so does everyone I have broken bread with across the globe when American issues come up at the table. Why the decisive thought process? Are you even conscious of your words above and the message you are sending out concerning your mindset...?

I flipped your words above in order to reflect a more honest perspective:

the AMERICAN community has often decayed to the point where it is hard to know how much of the disparity if actually created by unfair treatment and how much is created by the decayed family and moral structure of the community as a whole.

Let me explain:



So, when one views the video above, the questions you put forth to contemplate in your comment needs to be weighed...

Again, these issues reflect American society as a whole - not a white, black, brown, green, or whatever issue; and until some people wake up to this fact, and lose their ignorant bigoted mindset, these problems will remain because of their decisive hateful nature.

Based on reading your comments, you clearly lack understanding regarding the issue of equality and equity. Here is one more video that might help you understand the problem better:

The apologists are all back patting in here and still don't understand BLM...

Instead they've started trying to justify the unjustifiable...
I thought all lives mattered, huh?

But you're all high fiving over an unjustifiable shoot first no matter policy...


Shameful cognitive dissonance.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I am not the whole country. I am simply me. I believe all lives matter. I am a white, 46yr old father and husband. And yes, I believe all lives matter. All.

I have never owned slaves. I have never discriminated against someone because of who or what they were, or their beliefs. I have personally hired and promoted "minorities".

So, no.... I am not going to accept the yoke of white guilt. Sorry, pass it on to the next white male.

#AllLivesMatter

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I am not the whole country. I am simply me. I believe all lives matter. I am a white, 46yr old father and husband. And yes, I believe all lives matter. All.

I have never owned slaves. I have never discriminated against someone because of who or what they were, or their beliefs. I have personally hired and promoted "minorities".

So, no.... I am not going to accept the yoke of white guilt. Sorry, pass it on to the next white male.

#AllLivesMatter

Good for you.

It just so happens that this hash was a rebuttal to another. And that is what it represents.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Yepp, you're right. It is good for me.


Enjoy being engulfed in your PC feel good movements.

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Yepp, you're right. It is good for me.


Enjoy being engulfed in your PC feel good movements.

Enjoy calling your misinterpretation of reality and rationalization of the facts a PC feel good movement.

a reply to: nullafides

ALL LIVES MATTER , you must be blind or lying to yourself. IF all lives matter please show examples regarding groups such as africans, african americans, immigrants , poor whites, hispanics etc. All lives matter is basically telling black people to shut up. can you not see the war and state of emergency in these communitys

www.youtube.com...