Bush's Post-Election Approval Rating Lower Than Any In Decades

Originally posted by marg6043
Herman after reading your post and ideas I think you should get a career as a lawyer, and then move on into politics, for one so young you sure can keep up a rant.

I am not joking about the Career thing.

Thanks marg

Originally posted by Herman
You keep calling things "truth", when they don't have anything to do with truth! All you did was sarcasticaly say that I'm going to get drafted and sent off to the middle-east. There's no truth in that.

I guess you support the Guard and Reserves getting screwed over then. That way you and others like you will never be forced to put your money where your mouth is.

Read:

With the war draining the military of the troops needed for commitments worldwide, the Pentagon is being forced to take extraordinary steps to maintain adequate troop strength. A temporary increase of 30,000 soldiers for the Army, already approved by Congress, will most likely be made permanent. The Pentagon is also considering plans to further change the rules about mobilizing members of the National Guard and Reserve. Right now they cannot be called up for more than 24 months of active service. That limit would be scrapped, which would permit the Army to call them up as frequently as required.
That's not a back-door draft. It's a brutal, in-your-face draft that's unfairly limited to a small segment of the population. It would make a mockery of the idea of an all-volunteer Army.

From: The Scent of Fear
By Bob Herbert
The New York Times, Monday 10 January 2005

Herman:

Well, like I said, my uncle isn't the only one that I know who's in the military.

Let's see.. I was actually in the Army, regimented with the 101st Airborne Division and knew my share of special ops guys.. I guess you MUST know more military folks than I do.. What ever was I thinking..

by EASTCOASTKID:
When you support a politician, you support their votes and policies, in this case, to invade and occupy a sovereign nation. Those votes sent our troops into harm's way and it doesn't matter whether they volunteered or not. Grow a pair and own up to that reality. And since you're so supportive, you should step up and do your part. That's what true believers do, afterall.

Herman:I know what you mean here. It makes sense, but it's more complex than that. The troops still choose to fight. If none of the troops supported the cause, they wouldn't be in Iraq.

It doesn't work that way, Herman. The soldier is not paid to think or to make those decisions. He is paid to kill people and destroy property. And what he wants or likes doesn't mean diddly shyte to command. They go where they are told.

To me, as a civilian, it is now my duty to my fellow vets to do everything in my power to make sure they are using our forces wisely. In the case of Iraq, they are NOT.

Here's a link to the article I sourced above. There are a few other good ones that follow on the same page.

The Scent of Fear
By Bob Herbert
The New York Times

Monday 10 January 2005

The assembly line of carnage in George W. Bush's war in Iraq continues unabated. Nightmares don't last this long, so the death and destruction must be real. You know you're in serious trouble when the politicians and the military brass don't even bother suggesting that there's light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing ahead is a deep and murderous darkness.
www.truthout.org...

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I guess you support the Guard and Reserves getting screwed over then. That way you and others like you will never be forced to put your money where your mouth is.

Well, like I said more than once already, I don't support the "back door draft" that's supposedly going on. But we're getting away from the point. My point was that you were telling me "The truth hurts" after you made a comment that's foundation had nothing to do with any truth. I'm not getting drafted. All that was was a sarcastic cheap shot.

Read:

With the war draining the military of the troops needed for commitments worldwide, the Pentagon is being forced to take extraordinary steps to maintain adequate troop strength. A temporary increase of 30,000 soldiers for the Army, already approved by Congress, will most likely be made permanent. The Pentagon is also considering plans to further change the rules about mobilizing members of the National Guard and Reserve. Right now they cannot be called up for more than 24 months of active service. That limit would be scrapped, which would permit the Army to call them up as frequently as required.
That's not a back-door draft. It's a brutal, in-your-face draft that's unfairly limited to a small segment of the population. It would make a mockery of the idea of an all-volunteer Army.

From: The Scent of Fear
By Bob Herbert
The New York Times, Monday 10 January 2005

Again, refer to the post above.

Let's see.. I was actually in the Army, regimented with the 101st Airborne Division and knew my share of special ops guys.. I guess you MUST know more military folks than I do.. What ever was I thinking..

Ok, but you're again getting off topic. My point was that if what you're saying is true, and democrats really do outnumber republicans in the army, then there would be some proof to back that up. One person's word isn't enough to me when I've got more people from the other side telling me their argument. You were in the army, and you're telling me it was mostly democratic. I know other people in the army telling me it is mostly republican... More people on the other side, in fact.

by EASTCOASTKID:
It doesn't work that way, Herman. The soldier is not paid to think or to make those decisions. He is paid to kill people and destroy property. And what he wants or likes doesn't mean diddly shyte to command. They go where they are told.]

But they do sign up! If they didn't support the cause, they wouldn't be signing up. The soldiers there are there because...wait...this is just merging into the other argument we were just having! The one above this one about the Army being mainly republican or democratic. Anyway, they're there because they signed up and went there. By the way, my uncle was also in the 101st airborn.

Explain this Herman. If there was no need for a draft, there would be no need to start beefing up and readying the boards.

Posted on Wed, Jan. 12, 2005
Aberdeen: Local board members needed

From staff reports


The Selective Service System is looking for men and women to serve as members of local boards that are currently in a standby mode. A prospective member must be a United States citizen, at least 18 years old, registered with the Selective Service (if male), not employed in law enforcement, not an active or retired Armed Forces member and not convicted in any criminal offense.
www.aberdeennews.com...

I'm really not sure why. It doesn't matter. As of now, there is no draft. Bush hasn't announced any plans for a draft. He's said upfront there will be no draft. I don't believe there is going to be a draft. If a draft happens, I will gladly step down and admit that Bush has done wrong. Until then, debating it doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Herman
Bush hasn't announced any plans for a draft. He's said upfront there will be no draft.

Just like he claimed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. The man is a congenital liar, just like Bill Clinton was.

If a draft happens, I will gladly step down and admit that Bush has done wrong.

That will be too little, too late. It matters more than you know, Herman. It's your life on the line, not mine.

Getting back to our previous conversation.. Regarding political affiliation in the Army.. the vast number of grunts/lower enlisted are not very political. I rarely if ever heard folks from that echelon discuss politics. Really the only ones I did hear (from that group) talk about it was the black folks. They, of course, were Democrats for the most part, if anything. Among the officers, they were mainly Republicans. Even then, I rarely heard any political discussion, at least during working hours. Maybe at the O Club or Rod & Gun Club after work over beer...

The thing is, though, when you're in uniform (enlisted ranks mainly), national politics doesn't really have a place there other than in absentee voting. It's the most non-political you'll ever be b/c it matters not who you support. It's pretty much something you keep to yourself. And you have to obey and respect whatever guy is in the White House. When you're in uniform, you belong to the state. You are their property. And you are not free as a civilian is.

All I can say, and I know my liberal friends won't wanna hear this, is I am SO glad I got out before Clinton took the oath. I couldn't stand him.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The man is a congenital liar, just like Bill Clinton was.

Oh psshaa! Bill Clinton never told a single lie in his life. He was the most honorable, and noble president we have ever had. His morals are impeccable, and he is an all around good guy

Even though Im a Clinton fan, I wont deny he had his share of problems.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Even though Im a Clinton fan, I wont deny he had his share of problems.

I won't begrudge you, Kid. Afterall, my favorite prez (of my lifetime) is Reagan.

Originally posted by Herman

But they do sign up! If they didn't support the cause, they wouldn't be signing up.

This is not true. A plethora of our armed forces signs up in order to pay for college. I know many personally myself.

as posted by Scat
...not true. A plethora of our armed forces signs up in order to pay for college.

Not true?
I beg to differ, considerably.
Care to link us to a "plethora" of findings that suggest what you are alledging?

BTW....according to GALLOP, 53% and still rising.....




seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

BTW....according to GALLOP, 53% and still rising.....

Thats funny, because on the gallop web sight, a different picture is emerging here.

George W. Bush Approval Rating

Most
Recent

52% Approve

44% Disapprove
2005 Jan


--------------------------------------------------------

State of the Country" Satisfaction Rating

Most
Recent

46% Approve

53% Disapprove
2005 Jan

---------------------------------------------------------

Economic Confidence Ratings

Most
Recent Highest Lowest

41% Approve

59% Disapprove

2005 Jan

---------------------------------------------------

So tell me how bush has over half the approval rating, yet still maintains less than half of the State of the Country" Satisfaction Rating, and the Economic Confidence Ratings are below half? It would seem these three would go hand in hand. If you approve of Bush, then you approve of his economics and the way he runs the country. So why arnt these numbers higher as well? IMO, its because these people respect the presidential post, but have no confidence or trust with the man holding the position.



Edited for link:
www.gallup.com...


[edit on 1/16/05 by Kidfinger]

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Most
Recent

52% Approve

44% Disapprove
2005 Jan


--------------------------------------------------------

State of the Country" Satisfaction Rating

Most
Recent

46% Approve

53% Disapprove
2005 Jan

---------------------------------------------------------

Economic Confidence Ratings

Most
Recent Highest Lowest

41% Approve

59% Disapprove

2005 Jan

---------------------------------------------------

[edit on 1/16/05 by Kidfinger]

Actually, this more or less proves my point about polls. I don't think they reflect the overall opinion of the country. How on earth could 53% of people no approve on how he's handling the country (A.K.A, the PRESIDENT'S JOB), 59% disapprove of his economics (Which is not just him by the way), but still 53% think he's doing a good job. I don't believe in polls haha.

ITs a conspericy by the Gallop polls Herman! They fixed the approval rating and hoped the public would just see that one You are right about the inconsistancies. It leaves many questions unanswered.

It sure is interesting.. Bush wins the election and his numbers go down. Lowest, still, of any second termer at this point. They were discussing that this morning on Good Morning America. If he's so darn popular how can this be explained?

America should wtf up and descend en masse upon the white house to demand Bush's impeachment for the WMD LIES, among other things (like a REAL investigation into 9-11). 2 million folks marching on behalf of truth, true freedom and Democracy.. what a beautiful thought.

Originally posted by Herman

Ok, I guess it's semantics now. No, it's not hypocritical to support a war and not serve. It's not hypocritical because, again, this is a volunteer army. I am supporting our troops DECISION to serve in Iraq. I wouldn't support a draft, I wouldn't support anyone going into Iraq without a choice. If nobody wanted to go, I would be fine with there being no war. Nobody's being force, I'm not in favor of being forced, therefore it's not hypocritical. I support these people's bravery. -sniip-

So let me get this straight then, you support your fellow citizens, who on the basis of OUTRIGHT LIES and EXAGGERATIONS by your TRUSTED GOVERNMENT, signed up for a invasion where Americans were supposed to be greeted as LIBERATORS, but instead has turned into a QUAGMIRE of death and disability on both sides, with no END in site.

I don't really think you understand what you're saying and how it sounds. You may not be in favour, but all I can say is don't stray too far away from your mailbox, because the draft is coming, probably sooner than you think.

Originally posted by CazMedia
What has changed is the short attention spans of the average american with the overall education level of an 8th grader.

Question from Canada - don't mind me guys, but I watched the US election very closely, and as you can imagine was tres upset by the outcome. I read some interesting polls before the election from the university of maryland program on international policy attitudes.

There was one in particular - the Separate Realities of Bush and Kerry supporters which I'd like you to comment on if you'd be so kind.

pipa.org...

According to what I saw, these particular Bush supporters polled are too dumb for words. Is this poll out in left field?

To my mind people cannot be that stupid, which leaves the other scenario...they knew what BushCo. was all about and didn't give a sh*t.

Please let me know what you think. There are also other very interesting studies at that site: www.pipa.org. Suggest you check it out.

Thanks!

[edit on 18/1/05 by AlwaysLearning]

Sorry, I just hate politicans now; why can't we live in 1789? I know Bush rigged the election here in the BEAUTIFUL, BORING Buckeye state. They donated a bunch of $ from their companies, so they can do some shady business and get rid of smaller companies in the electronics field. So Bush, with all do respect to all parties, said "okay. the media will cover for me like they always do because we're elitest and I'll make UN look good so we can start the end of the world."
Because you see, when I was younger I would see bu(sin)ess men/women do this poser stuff all the time. So when I first saw him on the news and heard the report say "Christinan Conservative" I knew it was "Elitest-family-UN connected Ugly meanie poser". Now, I don't care what you believe as long asI can debate nicely, and you follow Kant's Rule For Humanity in your practices(no hurting childern at all, and now using mind control or demons, b/c well duh, they hate humans!)
Bush is just using religion to control people; like Paris Hilton is using Nick Carter to get more attention on the web from BSB(like that). It's only to keep america polarized, but sadly I care too much let stupid little sherrads by him, Corrperations, and the UN control people.
See what happens when you like a boyband that talks too much and read Thomas Paine.

[edit on 1/19/05 by BSB2005]

Fraud?! Are you crazy?! Listen here.. just b/c Republicans own the voting machine companies and run the Ohio election boards and airwaves doesn't mean anything! Everyone LOVES Bush and the Republicans would never cheat! Swear to G D!

Alwayslearning asks,

According to what I saw, these particular Bush supporters polled are too dumb for words. Is this poll out in left field?

While polls can be indicators of things...they are only examples and can certantly be skewed by many things including the way questions are asked, the type of question, the #'s polled, the interpretation of the data...(meaning selective interpretations of the data recieved) etc etc...

I wont say the poll is out in left field, but
it does appear to me to only put a critical eye on "exposing" the Bush voters side by going into much more detail of their position on reality interpretations, and only throwing up the Kerry sides % to compare to without looking into them... Basically it appears that the poll assumes the kerry reality is the true reality and the bush one not reality.

I think the truth is some where in between.

AlwaysLearning states,

To my mind people cannot be that stupid, which leaves the other scenario...they knew what BushCo. was all about and didn't give a sh*t.

Again, i think the truth lies somewhere in the middle...Umm people CAN be that stupid. But i think mis or un-informed is more the case.

Until 9-11, most Americans cared little to learn about international politics, and concerns of the world and the USA relative position in it because we were too comfy in our suburban dwelling, minivan driving, tv comsuming, bubble world. There was NO imputus to care about international politics as we went blindly about in the knowledge that we were the only remaining superpower, believing we were immune to others.
911 changed this notion both for the citizens and the government.

I think it is unrealistic for in only 4 yeasrs after 911 that either the government or the citizens (more-so) to get fully educated and develope an understanding of the complex issues involved with the mid east relationships with the west Especially considering the average educational level here is at about the high school or jr college level.
Hence the seeming stupidity (which is not limited to the bushies) in the citizens. Dont paint us all with that same brush.

While some that are aware, like myself, you say seem to think we dont give a damn....you are correct in a small way, its not that we dont care about what bush is doing from blind alligiance, its more that we dont care what the rest of the world thinks because many of us feel tired of being spit at, demonized, threatened, and treated like we owe the world something. Especially by 2 bit, third world tyrants that think they can get away with it because the world also thinks (or thought before the war) that Americans were too fat, lazy, uninterested and affraid to do something hard like go to war. Im glad they see now the error of that idea.
If you call this not caring, ill call it pushed to our limits of tolorance.

I respect your right to your opinion AlwaysLearning, but also find offence at you, a citizen of one of our closest neighbors and allies, to have an avatar which morphs our presidents pic into one of hitler. Some neighbor...some ally? This only makes some Americans reinforce their idea of "not caring what the world thinks". Heck we dont care what other citizens think of each other, why would we care about other countries. (im noit saying this is a great thing, its generally a "free" attitude, but one that is often disrespectful of others as well)

Many people around the world are not looking at the big picture and long term of the mid east, and are only focusing on iraq now. This is where they just dont "get" the Bush policy. Its more about breaking up the extremist islamic anti west ideology in the whole area, than it is about just freeing iraq.

For my 30 year time of being aware of the news and world events, i can tell you now, that as a kid, i was affraid of the threats comming out of the mid east from the hostage crisis onward to now (more fear than against the Russions)...911 only solidified the idea that there is an ideology and places filled with people that desire me, my nation, and my way of life to become extinct.
This is why alot of Americans feel better about (but dont have to idolize) President Bush.