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Bush's Post-Election Approval Rating Lower Than Any In Decades

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posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Typical. This is what these threads always resort to. Just a bunch of name-slinging and insult contests. I'm sick of it, and I'm sick of participating. The whole "If you support the war, you have to join the army" argument is B.S. I support the people who CHOSE to sign up and defend their country. I think they're doing the honorable thing, and I support them for doing so. The army may or may not be in my future, but if it's not it doesn't make a difference on my war stance. You guys know this is true, so there shouldn't be a need to argue.




posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
You guys know this is true, so there shouldn't be a need to argue.


No offense, but supporting the war and not serving makes you a hypocrite and coward for offering your fellow children up to the meat grinder.

Good luck with that, your views will carry you far in life.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by Herman
You guys know this is true, so there shouldn't be a need to argue.


No offense, but supporting the war and not serving makes you a hypocrite and coward for offering your fellow children up to the meat grinder.

Good luck with that, your views will carry you far in life.


Explain to me how that's so? It would be different if they got drafted, but we have an all volunteer army. I respect the people who are brave enough to do what I'm not. It's their choice in life, as a carreer and as a citizen. That doesn't make you a hypocrite. Saying you think everyone should sign up, and not signing up yourself would make you a hypocrite. Telling people to do something that you won't is being a hypocrite. I'm not telling people what to do, nor am I disrespecting those who don't do it. Learn what the word means before you go throwing it around like such.

By the way: Using "No offense" as a 30 second pass to say whatever you want and get away with it doesn't fly with me...no offense.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Herman]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
[By the way: Using "No offense" as a 30 second pass to say whatever you want and get away with it doesn't fly with me...no offense.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Herman]


Gosh, whatever will I do? Oh well, I'll struggle to find the will to live.

I don't support the war and I don't want our people there. I don't want them dying in the desert. It would make me a hypocrite if I signed up.

You support the war. You want our people there. They are currently dying. This is tolerable to you, but you won't go yourself to die for your cause. That makes you a hyocrite for holding these views, but not living up to them. That makes you a coward.

No offense.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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Brimstone, you have a point, if you think Bush is right and we should be over there killing more brown people, but don't actually sign up, kinda hypocritical. It would be like a hippi signing up to go kill some gooks or whatever, hypocritical. Also, Herman is a republican, so that might explain why not there. Republicans support war, Democrats hate war, democrats fight in wars, Republicans use money, power, or other excuses to get out of it. Kinda of why Kerry, and not Bush, fought in Vietnam. Or why most Generals who become president are democrats.



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Brimstone, you have a point, if you think Bush is right and we should be over there killing more brown people, but don't actually sign up, kinda hypocritical.


I guess the way I feel about it is this. There are board members who I argue with and mock on weekly basis. No ill will towards them (okay, maybe a tiny bit), but I disagree with their positons 100% and will fight and kick and claw against them.

However, most of them have actually served in the military. So, as much as I may disgaree with their position, and I will do my best to prove them wrong, or mock them into submission...I still respect their right to vehemently to support the war in any way these choose fit.

They fought. They were neck deep in blood and guts, so I can actually respect their view points, no matter how much I may loath them. Herman is a 17 year old kid and I'm just pointing out the shakey ground he's standing on when debating in a public arena.

However, not all republicans are bad. Not all democrats are good. There's not an all or nothing arguement to be made. So, if I'm being snarky to today, I'll give some to you too. I mean, thanks for agreeing with me and all, but you don't do your argeument any favors when you don't draw political distinctions within your subtext.

I mean, the most stunning indictments against the administration's policies during today's senate hearings, were done by moderate Republicans. Yet, when you label all Republicans in a certain way, you remove the possability of kind of moderate dialog.

Look, we live in screwy times and it's easy to just randomly hate everybody on the other side. But, then it just stays a deadlocked stalemate. I'm not saying that I disagree with everything, just that you make your valid points easy to dismiss when they're clouded over with all this other knucklehead stuff.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by brimstone735]

[edit on 6-1-2005 by brimstone735]



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by Herman
[By the way: Using "No offense" as a 30 second pass to say whatever you want and get away with it doesn't fly with me...no offense.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Herman]


Gosh, whatever will I do? Oh well, I'll struggle to find the will to live.

I don't support the war and I don't want our people there. I don't want them dying in the desert. It would make me a hypocrite if I signed up.

You support the war. You want our people there. They are currently dying. This is tolerable to you, but you won't go yourself to die for your cause. That makes you a hyocrite for holding these views, but not living up to them. That makes you a coward.

No offense.


Ok, I guess it's semantics now. No, it's not hypocritical to support a war and not serve. It's not hypocritical because, again, this is a volunteer army. I am supporting our troops DECISION to serve in Iraq. I wouldn't support a draft, I wouldn't support anyone going into Iraq without a choice. If nobody wanted to go, I would be fine with there being no war. Nobody's being force, I'm not in favor of being forced, therefore it's not hypocritical. I support these people's bravery. Think of it like this. Come into fanatasy land for a minute. Pretend a bunch of people are being chased by a monster (I'm not saying that the iraqi's are monsters or anything like that, don't worry). Nobody can stop it, it's too powerful. It turns out there is someone in this group who has the bravery to stand up for everyone else and fight the monster. He decides, on his own that he will go up against this monster. He doesn't consult you first, or ask your opinion. He just starts fighting it. If you support his decision, does it make you a hypocrite?


Posted by Jamesthelesser
Republicans support war, Democrats hate war, democrats fight in wars, Republicans use money, power, or other excuses to get out of it


Are you serious!??!?! Do I really even need to point out the inaccuracies in your statement!? You're smarter than this, and I know it. How can you even say that most of the people fighting are democrats? The great majority of the soldiers are republican! That's why most of them voted for Bush. They join and fight because they support the cause. Sure, there might still be a few soldiers who just have to serve out the rest of their term, but nobody would join and fight in Iraq if they thought it was a horrible idea in the first place...anyone with brains that is. Or do you think the democrats are being secretly drafted? I have family and friends in the military. It's a common fact that the majority of soldiers support Bush. Christ, at least say something like they're being brainwashed or something.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
Typical. This is what these threads always resort to. Just a bunch of name-slinging and insult contests. I'm sick of it, and I'm sick of participating. The whole "If you support the war, you have to join the army" argument is B.S. I support the people who CHOSE to sign up and defend their country. I think they're doing the honorable thing, and I support them for doing so. The army may or may not be in my future, but if it's not it doesn't make a difference on my war stance. You guys know this is true, so there shouldn't be a need to argue.


Sorry you're getting tired of hearing the truth, kiddo. It burns, doesn't it? I don't mean to sound condescending towards you, but because of your young age, there are many things you have yet to comprehend. That's not abnormal, so don't take offense. Wisdom comes with age and experience; it doesn't come overnight. Understanding war comes from serving.

With all due respect, I must say, I agree with the comments Brimstone735 made. First of all, if you check out the service records of our nation's representatives you will find that a great many more Democrats actually served and fought than their Republican counterparts. That's a fact, not conjecture or partisan nitpicking. Perhaps that is why more Democrats do not favor war and the military/industrial complex. I can tell you this, as a Republican who fought in the Persian Gulf War, it has informed my thinking in myriad ways. I knew in the run-up to this invasion, for example, just how absolutely full of shyte the Bush administration is and I also knew what a pandoras box we were about to open. Having been there, I knew how it would go down. I was 100% accurate in my prognostication. My warnings beforehand are on the record in the national media and so too are my calls for Rumsfeld's head. He is a disgrace to this nation and his leadership is abominable.


The gist of Brimstone's comments are this: those who talk the talk should walk the walk. If you don't, you are not credible and you will be ridiculed and marginalized. I am a firm believer in that philosophy. If you are willing to support this administration and their war for oil and empire, than you damn well better be willing to pick up your weapon and march off to war. To not do so is hypocritical in the extreme. If you're not willing to go and back up your beliefs, then your neighbor will; and he will die in your place. While you sit comfortably in your home and play armchair warrior, consider that.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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Attero - two things about this source you quoted that strike me...

uspolitics.about.com...

1) What's interesting is that the Bush administration may die without heirs on Jan. 20, 2009. Cheney has made it clear he won't run, and unless Condoleeza Rice does run, what a Republican candidate might try to do if Bush's end of term numbers are low is distance himself from Bush policies.

2) Nixon never defeated Johnson. He defeated Humphrey (Johnson didn't run).

EastCoastKid said "Why do hardcore conservatives think that ALL republicans hold the same ideals? "

And the problem I see with that is this - people like Arlen Specter, who some right-wingers are trying to boot off the judicial committee, represent a moderate brand of Republican that obviously appeals to a good number of Americans. If the most conservative Republicans choose to burn the moderates in their party at the stake, they're shooting themselves in the foot and risking defeats as soon as 2006. The worst thing neocons could do is see this as a mandate for a neocon agenda.

brimstone said "No offense, but supporting the war and not serving makes you a hypocrite and coward for offering your fellow children up to the meat grinder.

Actually, I don't have a problem with people having an opinion on the war in Iraq. Where I draw the line is when some people say "America is having a problem with such-and-such country? Nuke'em!" The way it's said so casually from the warmth of a comfy living room... I say it because I've read it on threads here often enough.



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Sorry you're getting tired of hearing the truth, kiddo. It burns, doesn't it?


No! There is no truth behind mud-slinging and insults. It seems my posts aren't even read thoroughly enough to comperhend. It's like people just get the gist of my post, and don't even bother to click links or acknowlege my statements. If I prove someone wrong, they just repeat what the previously said again with different wording!! The troops aren't mainly democratic. Just do a google search for military voting polls. Most of the links will say at least something about troops supporting Bush, even if it's just slight. Here's one from USA today..USA today artical Even liberal articals with spin say something like "in our poll, the troops only supported Bush by a narrow 56-44 lead, or something to that effect. Even most of the liberals I've debated with on this board just say the troops are brainwashed to support him.

And no, it's not hypocritical to support something and not join it! Are you saying that if you're not in the military, you have no right to support what these people VOLUNTARILY DECIDED to do? Like I said, you never directly respond to my questions, you just repeat your statement or move on. I don't want to repeat my whole post again! Besides, I'm only 17, how do you know I'm not thinking of joining myself? If you just use simple logic, you have to know that in order to support something, you don't have to join. Do you like any sports? Have you ever rooted for a team? Did you try out for that team? If not, does that make you a hypocrite? Say I like watching the Cardinals (Which I dont') play football. Does it make me a hypocrite if I never tried to become a proffesional football player?



posted on Jan, 7 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Herman
Do you like any sports? Have you ever rooted for a team? Did you try out for that team? If not, does that make you a hypocrite? Say I like watching the Cardinals (Which I dont') play football. Does it make me a hypocrite if I never tried to become a proffesional football player?


No, that's false logic. A better arguement would be radiation treatment. It can save lives when correctly applied, but it can even more if misused and applied incorrectly.

Anti-war people say, "no, radiation treatment is something being improperly applied. I don't want radiation treatment used on me, or anyone else as this present time."

Pro-war people say, "Radiation treatment works and needs to applied to this particular situation. You HAVE TO use it".

The reason your position is cowardly and hypocritical, is because you would be saying this, "Radiation treatment works in this situation, and everybody else has to use it...but I'm not going to".

It's hyocritical for a pro-lifer to have an abortion.
It's hyocritical for an environmentalist to drive an SUV.

Now, very carefully I've laid out this arguement for you. I read your posts, and they read like somebody with the traditional Republican inferiority complex. I'm not saying every Republican has this, just SOME. Much in the same way that SOME Democrats have a superiority complex.

You feel victimized when people disagree with you. I'm not accusing you of being an insecure person, but I am saying that you should look at the way you interpret the responses people give you. I respect any 17 year old who has an interest in politics, but if you're going to wade into the deeper waters of debate, you need to know how to swim.

That means understanding the complexities of issues, rather than just the broader definitions, because otherwise you'll get taken to the woodshed nine times out of ten.



posted on Jan, 8 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by brimstone735

No, that's false logic. A better arguement would be radiation treatment. It can save lives when correctly applied, but it can even more if misused and applied incorrectly.

Anti-war people say, "no, radiation treatment is something being improperly applied. I don't want radiation treatment used on me, or anyone else as this present time."

Pro-war people say, "Radiation treatment works and needs to applied to this particular situation. You HAVE TO use it".



The reason your position is cowardly and hypocritical, is because you would be saying this, "Radiation treatment works in this situation, and everybody else has to use it...but I'm not going to".


No, now you're the one using false logic. Who forced these people to sign up? Did anyone force them to sign up and "use the radiation treatment"? Like I said, I'm not in favor of the draft. I'm not in favor of picking people up off the streets and saying "You HAVE to go fight in Iraq!!!" Like I said, the fact that it's a volunteer army changes the whole course of the debate. Let me take your analogy, and change it to better suit the situation. It's more like me saying "I believe in the right for the people to choose if they want to use the radiation, because it can be helpfull". I support those people who decide to use this treatment to better their situation. Of course, even this analogy isn't accurate. You have to take into account that it's not as simple as walking into a building and gettin treatment. There's a long, terribly hard proccess. The army, for some, is what they're going to do for a living, and it's to better everyone else not just themselves.


It's hyocritical for a pro-lifer to have an abortion.

I agree, but this isn't the same situation. Again, I'm not trying to foce anyone to join the army. I support these people who choose to do it.



[edit on 8-1-2005 by Herman]



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Sorry you're getting tired of hearing the truth, kiddo. It burns, doesn't it?


No! There is no truth behind mud-slinging and insults.


What are you talking about? I didn't mud-sling and insult you. If you think I did, than you better grow a thicker skin.



The troops aren't mainly democratic. Just do a google search for military voting polls


Google search? Polls?
I'll give you a much better snapshot of how the troops vote.. try being inside the belly of the beast. The majority of white folks are Republican, if anything; the minorities are Democrats if anything. Most folks on the lower echelons are not even concerned with politics.



Even most of the liberals I've debated with on this board just say the troops are brainwashed to support him.


Yes, the troops are brainwashed, to an extent. Not for any politician; but, to kill certain people.


And no, it's not hypocritical to support something and not join it!


Yeah, we have a name for that.. I won't say it, though. It might hurt your feelings.



Are you saying that if you're not in the military, you have no right to support what these people VOLUNTARILY DECIDED to do?


I have a real problem with Chickenshyte MORONS who have no military or real life experience, for that matter, cheering on war and all that entails. Folks who've actually gone and done it usually aren't so quick to be trigger happy. It teaches that there are other ways to resolve conflict without going John Wayne.


Besides, I'm only 17, how do you know I'm not thinking of joining myself?


You might want to think long and hard about that. I mean, considering today's battle environment, how much do you value your healthy psyche, eyesight, legs and arms? Just how deep is your support? Forget about death.. there are worse outcomes.

If you support this administration and their war, than you should join. It's the best political science class you'll ever have. Otherwise, your support is hollow. If you're willing to send others off to fight for your ideals, you should be willing to back it up with your own pound of flesh.



Do you like any sports? Have you ever rooted for a team? Did you try out for that team? If not, does that make you a hypocrite?


I played sports from a young child through high school and into college on two scholarships. I hate watching sports. I PLAY.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

What are you talking about? I didn't mud-sling and insult you. If you think I did, than you better grow a thicker skin.



It's not direct, but it's in there. While someone is talking about a subject, they always seem to find time to throw something in like "While our people are out there killing more brown people...". Stuff like that annoys me. I'm not saying stuff directed at me, but stuff directed at the president and such. It's in there.



Google search? Polls?
I'll give you a much better snapshot of how the troops vote.. try being inside the belly of the beast. The majority of white folks are Republican, if anything; the minorities are Democrats if anything. Most folks on the lower echelons are not even concerned with politics.

Well, where are your facts that there are more democrats in the Army than Republicans? I've given you mine.


. If you're willing to send others off to fight for your ideals, you should be willing to back it up with your own pound of flesh.


But like I said, I'm not sending anyone. They're choosing to go. I support that. Just because I don't go doesn't mean I lose my right to support their going.


Do you like any sports? Have you ever rooted for a team? Did you try out for that team? If not, does that make you a hypocrite?
I played sports from a young child through high school and into college on two scholarships. I hate watching sports. I PLAY.


But would you say it's hypocritical to root for the Cardinals and not play for theM?



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

What are you talking about? I didn't mud-sling and insult you. If you think I did, than you better grow a thicker skin.



It's not direct, but it's in there.



It's not in there.. but it's in there..
Please tell me what I said.. that I did not say.. Then I might be able to address it.


not saying stuff directed at me, but stuff directed at the president and such.


The last time I checked, there was such a thing as the FIRST AMMENDMENT, which gives me the right to speak my mind.



Well, where are your facts that there are more democrats in the Army than Republicans? I've given you mine.


I didn't even bring that up.
I was answering what someone else brought up. Why would I need facts when I was there, front and center, seeing it with my own eyes? Let's see.. live, realtime.. or some bit of info. off a website? I'll put my real-life experience up against your cyber experience any day.


EASTCOASTKID: If you're willing to send others off to fight for your ideals, you should be willing to back it up with your own pound of flesh.



But like I said, I'm not sending anyone.


Wrong. Your support for this administration's invasion/occupation is the same as sending them. Whether you like it or not, your position is hypocrital. Nice try, though.


But would you say it's hypocritical to root for the Cardinals and not play for theM?


This was my answer: I hate watching sports. I PLAY them. You might wanna look for a better argument. That one ain't workin.



posted on Jan, 10 2005 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

What are you talking about? I didn't mud-sling and insult you. If you think I did, than you better grow a thicker skin.



It's not direct, but it's in there.



It's not in there.. but it's in there..
Please tell me what I said.. that I did not say.. Then I might be able to address it.


My apologies if it's not in there as boldly as I thought it was. I'm doing wrong and grouping all the liberals I argue here with together. However, it's still there.

1.)

Hope you like olive drab. Your nice Republican parents won't be able to buy you out of college when the war machine calls your number. Things are much different now. You might wanna learn some Arabic, too.


What "truth" of that hurts? That was just a cheap shot.

By sminkeypinkey 2.)

'Plausible necessary mythology'.......don't you just love the out-right lies, complete loathing and utter lack of respect for their fellow Americans that kind of evil fascist neo-con condescention speaks volumes about?!


By ECK 3.)

Neo Cons are the most condescending, arrogant, clueless bunch I've ever seen.


After this, the discussion basically turned into marg talking about her husband, and you and kidfinger talking about a book. This is where I got a little frusterated with the remarks mentioned, and also some of the other threads I was participating on at the time. I made the remark about how I was frusterated with the name-calling and such, and you said "The truth hurts". What truth were you referring to?

And nice job trying to twist my words. When did I say you said something that you didn't say? I said it wasn't as direct as I thought, but it was still there.


not saying stuff directed at me, but stuff directed at the president and such.



The last time I checked, there was such a thing as the FIRST AMMENDMENT, which gives me the right to speak my mind.


Yet, I totally agree with you that it's perfect legal for you to insult me....




I didn't even bring that up.
I was answering what someone else brought up. Why would I need facts when I was there, front and center, seeing it with my own eyes? Let's see.. live, realtime.. or some bit of info. off a website? I'll put my real-life experience up against your cyber experience any day.


Really? Did I miss something? This is a real question too, not just sarcasm.
If your argument is accurate, then there must also be proof to back it up, right? My uncle, and a friend of mine served too. They've told me that the majority of people there are Republican. My uncle's a green beret. Front and center.


posted by ECK First of all, if you check out the service records of our nation's representatives you will find that a great many more Democrats actually served and fought than their Republican counterparts.



EASTCOASTKID: If you're willing to send others off to fight for your ideals, you should be willing to back it up with your own pound of flesh.



But like I said, I'm not sending anyone.



by ECKWrong. Your support for this administration's invasion/occupation is the same as sending them. Whether you like it or not, your position is hypocrital. Nice try, though.


How on earth is that the same as sending them!??!?! They chose to go! They chose to fight for the cause. They chose to defend my freedoms. How on earth did I send them!??



But would you say it's hypocritical to root for the Cardinals and not play for theM?



This was my answer: I hate watching sports. I PLAY them. You might wanna look for a better argument. That one ain't workin.


But you still didn't answer my question. Would it be hypocritical to support the Cardinals and not play for them? I would rather play than watch too, but this is hypothetical.


[edit on 10-1-2005 by Herman]



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

What are you talking about? I didn't mud-sling and insult you. If you think I did, than you better grow a thicker skin.



It's not direct, but it's in there.


My apologies if it's not in there as boldly as I thought it was. I'm doing wrong and grouping all the liberals I argue here with together. However, it's still there.


EASTCOASTKID:

Herman.. just because you say something, does not make it true. Either give me an example of what you think I'm saying, or give it a rest.



EastCoastKid:
Hope you like olive drab. Your nice Republican parents won't be able to buy you out of college when the war machine calls your number. Things are much different now. You might wanna learn some Arabic, too.


HERMAN:
What "truth" of that hurts? That was just a cheap shot.


Truth is not a cheap shot just because you don't like the sound of it, or because you are not able to grasp it. Why don't you tell us why that statement so gets under your thin skin.

By ECK 3.)

Neo Cons are the most condescending, arrogant, clueless bunch I've ever seen.



Herman:
After this, the discussion basically turned into marg talking about her husband, and you and kidfinger talking about a book. This is where I got a little frusterated with the remarks mentioned, and also some of the other threads I was participating on at the time. I made the remark about how I was frusterated with the name-calling and such, and you said "The truth hurts". What truth were you referring to?


The truth, you know.. that you refuse to see and contemplate b/c it does not fit in with your view and media-programmed mindset. You would do well to look into that link that was so kindly offered you regarding the origins of Neo Conservative movement. Until your willing to investigate all avenues, you will never find the truth. You will only remain mired in one-side propoganda. Free yourself.


Herman:
Really? Did I miss something? This is a real question too, not just sarcasm.
If your argument is accurate, then there must also be proof to back it up, right? My uncle, and a friend of mine served too. They've told me that the majority of people there are Republican. My uncle's a green beret. Front and center.


Guess what, your inexperience is about to bite you on your tender a$$. How many minorities do you think are in the Green Berets?
NOT MANY. That's a fact. So.. in the rarified air of his little world, I'm sure he meets mostly Republicans. The vast general ranks are a far cry from that crowd, I assure you. Guess ya have to be there to know that.
Maybe you'll see that for yourself one day.



EASTCOASTKID: If you're willing to send others off to fight for your ideals, you should be willing to back it up with your own pound of flesh.



Herman:
But like I said, I'm not sending anyone.


This is why the comment was made about arguing with a 17 year-old kid. Logic is bouncing off your forehead. You accuse people of never really reading your posts and grasping what you're saying.. touche. The same can said of you.


by EASTCOASTKID:

Wrong. Your support for this administration's invasion/occupation is the same as sending them. Whether you like it or not, your position is hypocrital. Nice try, though.



Herman:

How on earth is that the same as sending them!??!?! They chose to go! They chose to fight for the cause. They chose to defend my freedoms. How on earth did I send them!??


When you support a politician, you support their votes and policies, in this case, to invade and occupy a sovereign nation. Those votes sent our troops into harm's way and it doesn't matter whether they volunteered or not. Grow a pair and own up to that reality. And since you're so supportive, you should step up and do your part. That's what true believers do, afterall.


Herman:

I would rather play than watch too, but this is hypothetical.


Your hypothetical question is nonsense. I gave an answer. If you don't like it, I can't help you. Find an analogy that applies and we'll talk.


[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Now.. getting back to the subject at hand. Dubya's numbers remain piss poor on the eve of his second inaugural. Mandate? My a$$.




Approval ratings low for Bush, Congress
By Will Lester, Associated Press | January 8, 2005

WASHINGTON -- President Bush is entering his second term with the lowest approval ratings of any recent two-term president, even as he talks about an ambitious agenda of change, an Associated Press poll finds.
www.boston.com...


So much for his mandate.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Herman after reading your post and ideas I think you should get a career as a lawyer, and then move on into politics, for one so young you sure can keep up a rant.

I am not joking about the Career thing.



posted on Jan, 11 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Truth is not a cheap shot just because you don't like the sound of it, or because you are not able to grasp it. Why don't you tell us why that statement so gets under your thin skin.


You keep calling things "truth", when they don't have anything to do with truth! All you did was sarcasticaly say that I'm going to get drafted and sent off to the middle-east. There's no truth in that. Yeah, some of the national guardsmen are being forced to serve longer terms (Which I don't support at all), but there is no draft, so there was no truth in your statement.


EastCoastKid

Guess what, your inexperience is about to bite you on your tender a$$. How many minorities do you think are in the Green Berets?
NOT MANY. That's a fact. So.. in the rarified air of his little world, I'm sure he meets mostly Republicans. The vast general ranks are a far cry from that crowd, I assure you. Guess ya have to be there to know that.
Maybe you'll see that for yourself one day.


Well, like I said, my uncle isn't the only one that I know who's in the military. And also, you're over-looking the fact that you don't just move to a greenberet out of nowhere! He started off low, then moved up. If you're telling the truth then there would be some evidence to back it up!


EASTCOASTKID:

This is why the comment was made about arguing with a 17 year-old kid. Logic is bouncing off your forehead. You accuse people of never really reading your posts and grasping what you're saying.. touche. The same can said of you.



by EASTCOASTKID:
When you support a politician, you support their votes and policies, in this case, to invade and occupy a sovereign nation. Those votes sent our troops into harm's way and it doesn't matter whether they volunteered or not. Grow a pair and own up to that reality. And since you're so supportive, you should step up and do your part. That's what true believers do, afterall.


I know what you mean here. It makes sense, but it's more complex than that. The troops still choose to fight. If none of the troops supported the cause, they wouldn't be in Iraq. The people sending them are allowing them to move in. I didn't have a part in actually sending them. If none of them wanted to go, I wouldn't want them there. They want to go defend these freedoms, so I support that.


EastCoastKid

Your hypothetical question is nonsense. I gave an answer. If you don't like it, I can't help you. Find an analogy that applies and we'll talk.



But it does apply! If you support a team, doesn't that mean you should go play for them? With your logic, it would by hypocritical to root for a team and never try to join them. The football players aren't out there just to play football; they're there to win a championship. It's the same with the Army. They're not just out there fighting for no reason. Their cause is to stop terrorism. Their cause is to defend us. They're choosing to defend us. Are you really saying that nobody outside the military has a right to defend their cause?

But we're both engulfed in a circular debate. In my opinion, it's your head that the logic is bouncing off of. In your opinion, it's mine. Of course you'll never admit that.

[edit on 11-1-2005 by Herman]



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