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Socialism is Not a 4 Letter Word

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posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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These discussions are actually really good...They may frustrate us, but they need to be had.

We're undoubtedly headed in a more socialist direction over time -- but what "flavor" of socialism is it going to be? Unless we hash out what is and isn't important to us as individuals NOW, we might end up with something none of us like.

There are many lessons and many mistakes we can and ought to be learning and drawing from. We seem to remember history, but never put into place evidence that we've learned from it.




posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: introvert

Oh, like the public school system which I have gone on and on about ...



There are many factors in that issue to simply say it was the fault of socialism, but it is an example of what happens when the people do not uproot corruption.

That would be similar to how our 2nd amendment rights have eroded because the people were not vigilant. Yes, even in our great Republic we will have issues if the people are lazy.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: greencmp



Who doesn't know what they're talking about?


You.

You still have yet to intelligently refute my assertions or provide a better alternative.

Sniping from around the edges of a conversation does not make it very productive.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
These discussions are actually really good...They may frustrate us, but they need to be had.

We're undoubtedly headed in a more socialist direction over time -- but what "flavor" of socialism is it going to be? Unless we hash out what is and isn't important to us as individuals NOW, we might end up with something none of us like.

There are many lessons and many mistakes we can and ought to be learning and drawing from. We seem to remember history, but never put into place evidence that we've learned from it.


Very true, I obviously prefer a particular conclusion but, if we all must endure the result at least recognize the past mistakes lest we emulate every previous socialism.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Actually, I have been pretty civil throughout the majority of the discussion.

I may have confused you with another poster though. If so, I apologize.

Your attitude has been one of dismissal, not consideration though so, I don't find your admonishments particularly reasonable.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: introvert

But here's the problem: How do "the people" uproot corruption in the public system? WE have very little to no control over it anymore.

So, we can complain and point out the failings day after day and many do, but if our betters, the elites who run things, don't take meaningful action, it doesn't matter, so the system becomes abusive and we have no recourse if we cannot remove ourselves from it.

And since it us involuntary, none of us really can remove ourselves from it.


edit on 10-8-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

I did not claim that you were anything but civil. It's funny that you say my approach was one of dismissal, yet even after it was shown that National socialism is not the same as economic socialism, you continued to dismiss that reality and pressed that incorrect assumption further.

Pot, kettle.....you get idea.
edit on 10-8-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko



But here's the problem: How do "the people" uproot corruption in the public system? WE have very little to no control over it anymore.


We are seeing the same problem today in our constitutional, capitalist republic. The people have to be vigilant. Mao was correct when he said the people always need to be in a state of constant revolution. We have to be willing and able to take control as a people if the small group of those in charge do something we do not like.



And since it us involuntary, none of us really can remove ourselves from it.


How easy is it to remove ourselves from the problems in this country, short of moving out of the states?

You see. The same problems we may experience with socialism are the same problems we are facing today, but we fail to recognize that because capitalism is good.....socialism is bad.

Perhaps a mixture of both is what is needed.
edit on 10-8-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: greencmp

I did not claim that you were anything but civil. It's funny that you say my approach was one of dismissal, yet even after it was shown that National socialism is not the same as economic socialism, you continued to dismiss that reality and pressed that incorrect assumption further.

Pot, kettle.....you get idea.


Not an untrue statement, I suppose I am doing the same thing but, I really do think I am right about national socialism being a form of socialism so it is frustrating to fail to establish that within this discussion.

It is a major point.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: introvert

But when we collectivize and are forced to pool into massive systems the damage becomes greater.

You call what we have capitalist, but it's not. It's something else, something that has been steadily collectivized. See the two terms that are the same?

The bigger they are; the harder they fall and the more people will be hurt in the ensuing chaos. Government has been colluding to collect power unto itself and the power players are working with them because they get power unto themselves in the bargain. When the system falls, the system they create, they'll have enough to take care of themselves.

But to collectivize is to forcibly collect power into someone's hands rather than spread it out into the hands of individuals.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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It is every 4 letter word of a derogatory nature.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: makemap

We've been turning to socialism because we require less and less of a workforce to create more and more goods.

That's how simple it is.


What you see here is the start of the end of Capitalism and beginning of Corporatism. Those socialism, communism, etc. Are just words of how the country is run. It has nothing to do with the workforce. Never apply workforce or payment into those ideal. Those have separate words. For example, if you apply money, it is called "monetary system". We can live in the past without money while trading food for clothes if you want, this was "Soviet Union" in the past. If you have a workforce they were called "pioneers"/ "workers" in the past depending how the nation calls its workforce by name.

US right now is fully capitalist because you can own a private house. A bit fascist because you have to pay taxes to governments. There hasn't been a full communist country after Mao and Lenin. You can't call US a monarchy because there is currently no kings/queens or leader who applies all the rules to the people. The President cannot just apply any rules without congress approval. Only thing that can cause US to go full imperialist is a huge ass war like WW2.

Communism would not have homeless, the people work together and live together in the country. Nothing is private in Communism, people are freely to move everywhere without having to deal with private territory laws(capitalism) while the Government doesn't control the people/everyone. People produce for their own good.

Unlike US, poor people land gets bought out and they aren't told where to move. To not be confused, the Idea of fascism is everyone works for the government, government controls all land either privately or publicly. Everyone obeys the government.



edit on 10-8-2015 by makemap because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-8-2015 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Isurrender73

I left the thread for the day and my thread about fixing the balance between socialism and capitalism, which is the form of government we have, turned into a debate about the worst examples of fascism in history.

Our government has turned into a facisist corpocracy. My idea of democratic social capitalism is founded on everyone having the right to vote on all law creation. A true democracy not a representative democracy.

Hitler, Stalin, Lenon were fascist who imposed laws on the people without the democratic process.
...


Why do you think the U.S. and other countries have been slowly turning into fascist corpocracies? Because socialist and even communist policies have been implemented in the system such as central banks, and world banks, which are necessary to corrupt the power structure of those countries even more allowing for more extreme socialist and communist ideals to be implemented in those nations.

When people don't learn from the past, the past is bound to be repeated.

If you want direct democracy to be implemented you haven't learned from the past. Another member already mentioned that direct democracy is nothing more than mob rule, and that is true.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: makemapmmhmmm and you once lived in the old communist Soviet Union? Or maybe not!!!!



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

We are seeing the same problem today in our constitutional, capitalist republic.


First of all, we are not a constitutional, capitalistic Republic anymore... Progressives made sure of that. According to the Constitution, Congress is the only Federal institution that should issue coin, and the only coins mentioned in the Constitution are silver and gold... Yet, thanks to democrats in 1913 the power of the economy of the United States was given to the international bankers who own the Federal Reserve.

Then in 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt implemented executive order 6102, forbidding all Americans from "hoarding gold and silver coins", making the ownership of gold and silver a criminal offense, thanks to another progressive democrat.

Article 4 Section 4 of the United States Constitution states:


...
Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
...

www.law.cornell.edu...

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government.

Yet, that is not happening is it? And thanks to the implementation of the Federal Reserve and other policies implemented "in the name of progress", the United States has been transformed from what used to be as a Constitutional Republic, into a corpocracy.



originally posted by: introvert
The people have to be vigilant. Mao was correct when he said the people always need to be in a state of constant revolution. We have to be willing and able to take control as a people if the small group of those in charge do something we do not like.


Really?... Mao was correct?... You are agreeing with a genociadal tyrant... A state of constant revolution means a state of always murdering and oppressing people just for the sake of "the constant revolution"...


originally posted by: introvert
Perhaps a mixture of both is what is needed.


The mixture of both is what got the entire world into the mess we are in today...


edit on 10-8-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

They were in the midst of the Great Depression



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: beezzer

Obama care socialist? It is used as a mandatory insurance scam from my point of view.


Could not agree more.



This is the similar idea to the bankers dream pension system that was created in Sweden to stimulate the stock Market. Every month we are forced to take part of our pension money and invest it in bankers fond that is buying stocks every month.

That is the way capitalism works now days. Profit/benefits to few and the cost shared by many thru tax and insurance schemes.


That's not capitalism. That's just what happens when big government gets in bed with big business, which happens whenever a government has or is given complete power over the market.



posted on Aug, 10 2015 @ 11:14 PM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: greencmp

Scientists/Inventors- semantics

And Tesla thought electricity should be free.

Free electricity for all did not come from the mind of a capitalist, free energy is a very socialist ideology.


Tesla never said it would be free. He said his system could deliver power to anyone, anywhere in the world, provided they had the right receiving equipment. That does not mean "free"...though many people seem to have interpreted his system, which required no connective wiring between power plants and end users, as equating to "free power".
Why would it be free? Is it because there are no wires involved? Why do people pay for satellite tv then?

Read Tesla's presentations on wireless power. He gave many. He never said anything about "free".



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 12:12 AM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: beezzer

Makes me think back to the revolutionary war. The part of the conservtives was played by the loyalists. These guys ended up loosing in the deal because that other group wanted to try a different system.

The more things change...


Stop it. The founders weren't mentally ill progressive authoritarians trying to steal everything with the butt of a government gun. They wanted individual freedom, not a bunch of socialist know it all's telling everyone their version of failed reality.

Progressives always try to rewrite history because its filled with socialist failures. My personal favorite socialists rewrite is the "Hitler was extreme right wing". Its the best because not only is it funny but it displays the users total lack of historical knowledge. Ignorance at its finest.
edit on 11-8-2015 by pyramid head because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: pyramid head

Stop what?

Loyalists existed during the revolutionary war.




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