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Socialism is Not a 4 Letter Word

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posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: greencmp



The free market solution is to not buy from them anymore, abstinence is an incredibly effective tool


That sounds good in theory until you have to abstain from a monopoly. What do you do if someone has a monopoly on something required to sustain life, such as medicine?

Abstinence could mean death, correct?


Well, to complete the hypothetical situation, nobody would want to appear to be withholding lifesaving remedies as their reputation and future endeavors now entirely depend upon their perceived behavior instead of the state so, they would likely be far more generous than under the current regulatory model.

Now, there must be some exceptions to this but, I can't think of any and I am really trying.


Socialized health care where it is illegal to practice medicine outside the auspices of the state?

The state doesn't want to appear to be withholding life-saving treatment, but the very latest treatments are often too expensive for the system to hand out, so the studies often factor in criteria such as "cost effectiveness" in order to justify not handing out the best available, and it's illegal for you to go it alone ... so ...


Not sure what countrys make it illegal to go alone in the developed world.

UK if your not happy with the NHS you can pay for private medical care out your own pocket.


Most of the country's in the developed world are the same.

How ever you spin it medical care in the USA is mediocre.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: beezzer

I'm asking if you enjoy the benefits of what the collective wealth of the people can provide?



Police, fire, military, roads?

They aren't benefits.

They are services I pay for.



They are services WE pay for....you socialist.


It's an entitlement that a few pay for, for everyone else.


I disagree. We all pay for those services through various forms of taxes.



Perhaps we should get rid of them until everyone starts paying for these services.

Until then it's an entitlement to most, and a tax burden to a few.


That's a bit regressive, don't you think? What sense would that make?


If true socialism is the goal, then it makes perfect sense.

We all pay in and we all take out. If instead, the progressive goal is to have a few pay in so that everyone can take out ... then you aren't actually talking about socialism are you?


Talk to a progressive. I wouldn't know.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Can I just hate both ?

I have a lot of hate to share


Careful.

You'll be branded an anarchist.



Pfft i get branded alot of things!



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

And your criticism would be valid if ... Venezuela had a capitalist society, but it demonstrably does not. In Venezuela, the anarchy comes from the failure of socialism.



Anarchy is anarchy.

What difference does it make where it comes from. Or you just want to bag on socialism?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: beezzer

If there were anarchy, how would we prevent a corporation from closing the "free" market? I could monopolize retail by hiring thugs to beat my competitors customers, then embargo every manufacturer who didn't sell out to my cartel.

Edit: I don't need the government chaining me and telling me what I can tell my thugs to do or who can or can't but my services.


If the government is not involved, and there are no regulations the people can arm themselves as well or better than those thugs and fight back.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: xuenchen

A few Giants is better than 1 super giant.


But, instead of a few giants you get one super-hyper-mega-giant, the state.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: introvert

yes, it is true.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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The problem with Venezuela is 80% of government revenue comes from the oil industry:

"Venezuela has a mixed economy dominated by the petroleum sector, which accounts for roughly a third of GDP, around 80% of exports, and more than half of government revenues."

venezuelanalysis.com...

The country's energy-dependent economy requires oil prices above $100 per barrel in order to sustain itself.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

And your criticism would be valid if ... Venezuela had a capitalist society, but it demonstrably does not. In Venezuela, the anarchy comes from the failure of socialism.



Anarchy is anarchy.

What difference does it make where it comes from. Or you just want to bag on socialism?


Bag on socialism?

So what if it ends up in people killing each other over food?

You're all in?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Annee

Anarchy.


No... Venezuela's problems in lack of food, staple items, and other items are because of the socialist/communist rationing system...

Anarchy appears in true socialist/communist nations after the socialist rationing systems are implemented...



I've been reading your posts. Thank you. Very intelligent, very informative.

So many posters here state they want no government. That everyone should just take care of themselves.

They seem to believe everyone will be polite, respectful, and share whats needed. That's not realistic.

Rioting is a form of Anarchy - - - no matter the reason behind it. This is how humans behave without rules.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3

And that is a good example of a big government fail.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

And your criticism would be valid if ... Venezuela had a capitalist society, but it demonstrably does not. In Venezuela, the anarchy comes from the failure of socialism.



Anarchy is anarchy.

What difference does it make where it comes from. Or you just want to bag on socialism?


Bag on socialism?

So what if it ends up in people killing each other over food?

You're all in?


You take that chance with any economic system if it is not run properly. Capitalism had to resort to socialism in the US to avoid that reality, in the form of food stamps.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
The problem with Venezuela is 80% of government revenue comes from the oil industry:
...


That's not the problem with Venezuela. How is it that the oil industry caused the increase in human rights abuses in Venezuela? or the food crisis? or the increase in crime even after offering more education to the poor?

The problems in Venezuela are caused by the socialist/communist system. Just like the problems of Cuba, North Korea, etc.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Annee

Anarchy.


No... Venezuela's problems in lack of food, staple items, and other items are because of the socialist/communist rationing system...

Anarchy appears in true socialist/communist nations after the socialist rationing systems are implemented...



I've been reading your posts. Thank you. Very intelligent, very informative.

So many posters here state they want no government. That everyone should just take care of themselves.

They seem to believe everyone will be polite, respectful, and share whats needed. That's not realistic.

Rioting is a form of Anarchy - - - no matter the reason behind it. This is how humans behave without rules.


There really aren't any anarchists here, we are presumably all arguing from the purest ideological form so most people don't really want communism either.

I would say the debate is roughly between minarchist constitutional republicans (because you guys stole the term liberals last century) vs market socialists (what I would call socio-economic interventionists).



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Annee

Anarchy.


No... Venezuela's problems in lack of food, staple items, and other items are because of the socialist/communist rationing system...

Anarchy appears in true socialist/communist nations after the socialist rationing systems are implemented...



I've been reading your posts. Thank you. Very intelligent, very informative.

So many posters here state they want no government. That everyone should just take care of themselves.

They seem to believe everyone will be polite, respectful, and share whats needed. That's not realistic.

Rioting is a form of Anarchy - - - no matter the reason behind it. This is how humans behave without rules.


There really aren't any anarchists here, . . .


Sorry, I meant on ATS not this specific thread.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

I've been reading your posts. Thank you. Very intelligent, very informative.

So many posters here state they want no government. That everyone should just take care of themselves.

They seem to believe everyone will be polite, respectful, and share whats needed. That's not realistic.

Rioting is a form of Anarchy - - - no matter the reason behind it. This is how humans behave without rules.



Show me where I wrote we should have no government. Limited, small government is not the same as no government.

There will always be need for some basic laws. For example traffic laws, and branches in government without overextending itself to ensure that not one branch, or person has all the power.


edit on 9-8-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

Kudos on the vocab and syntax but you just said that the 800 pound gorilla keeps the lesser monkeys in line, but that if we changed 800 pound gorillas from governmental to corporate that suddenly the lesser monkeys would be the ones keeping the gorilla in line.

We can compete on the merits of our products, but if my product is beating people into submission and I am the best in the business, then we're gonna be practicing the kind of anarchy where everybody does what I say.

If I were wrong about this, then petty criminals should have overthrown the mafia. That's what an unregulated free market looks like.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Fascism is a brand of socialism. It just married some Capital to the socialist ideology. Both are factions of the Left however. It takes the late Antony Sutton to explain it. I will keep posting till I get screamed at by those who refuse to understand.


Probably the most difficult task in this work will be to get across to the reader what is really an elementary observation: that the objective of The Order is neither "left" nor "right." "Left" and "right" are artificial devicces to bring about change, and the extremes of political left and political right are vital elements in a process of controlled change.
The answer to this seeming political puzzle lies in Hegelian logic. Remember that both Marx and Hitler, the extremes of "left" and "right" presented as textbook enemies, evolved out of the same philosophical system: Hegelianism. That brings screams of intellectual anguish from Marxists and Nazis, but is well known to any student of political systems.


In the Hegelian system conflict is essential. Furthermore, for Hegel and systems based on Hegel, the State is absolute. The State requires complete obedience from the individual citizen. An individual does not exist for himself in these so-called organic systems but only to perform a role in the operation of the State...

www.prisonplanet.com...



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Annee

I've been reading your posts. Thank you. Very intelligent, very informative.

So many posters here state they want no government. That everyone should just take care of themselves.

They seem to believe everyone will be polite, respectful, and share whats needed. That's not realistic.

Rioting is a form of Anarchy - - - no matter the reason behind it. This is how humans behave without rules.



Show me where I wrote we should have no government. Limited small government is not the same as no government.

There will always be need for some basic laws. For example traffic laws, and branches in government without overextending itself to ensure that not one branch, or person has all the power.



OK, I know you are way more informed and knowledgeable of this subject then me.

Limited government sounds like a good idea. But, there are billions of people.

As I said earlier, we need to something new. I'm out.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

No corporation has ever existed under anarchocapitalism. But what about the Mafia?



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