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Socialism is Not a 4 Letter Word

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posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: introvert

Perhaps I missed the original premise of your remarks. I thought you were saying anarchy equals socialism.

My bad.


Did you just reply to yourself???




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: introvert

Stay out of my head introvert!!!



My apologies.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: beezzer

I'm asking if you enjoy the benefits of what the collective wealth of the people can provide?



Police, fire, military, roads?

They aren't benefits.

They are services I pay for.



They are services WE pay for....you socialist.


It's an entitlement that a few pay for, for everyone else.

Perhaps we should get rid of them until everyone starts paying for these services.

Until then it's an entitlement to most, and a tax burden to a few.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen
What went wrong here ....

Venezuela: “We’re Scared To Go Into The Streets And Look For Food, The Crime Here Is Killing Us



Anarchy.


Anarchy?

But that country is a massive organized big government.

The government authoritarianism is rendering everything useless, not the people or any free market.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: introvert

Perhaps I missed the original premise of your remarks. I thought you were saying anarchy equals socialism.

My bad.


Did you just reply to yourself???


Fixed.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen
What went wrong here ....

Venezuela: “We’re Scared To Go Into The Streets And Look For Food, The Crime Here Is Killing Us



Anarchy.


Anarchy?

But that country is a massive organized big government.

The government authoritarianism is rendering everything useless, not the people or any free market.




Who is preventing people from leaving their homes?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: beezzer

I'm asking if you enjoy the benefits of what the collective wealth of the people can provide?



Police, fire, military, roads?

They aren't benefits.

They are services I pay for.



They are services WE pay for....you socialist.


It's an entitlement that a few pay for, for everyone else.


I disagree. We all pay for those services through various forms of taxes.



Perhaps we should get rid of them until everyone starts paying for these services.

Until then it's an entitlement to most, and a tax burden to a few.


That's a bit regressive, don't you think? What sense would that make?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen
What went wrong here ....

Venezuela: “We’re Scared To Go Into The Streets And Look For Food, The Crime Here Is Killing Us



Anarchy.


Anarchy?

But that country is a massive organized big government.

The government authoritarianism is rendering everything useless, not the people or any free market.




Who is preventing people from leaving their homes?


well gee i don't know.



it must be insane capitalists on the loose !!!



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: introvert

But commercial property owners pay for streets and services so commerce can happen.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

It's an entitlement that a few pay for, for everyone else.

Perhaps we should get rid of them until everyone starts paying for these services.

Until then it's an entitlement to most, and a tax burden to a few.


No, the majority aren't freeloading for those services. It's almost impossible to avoid paying for them unless you are completely separate from society in every way. For example, if you drive on the roads, you're paying for those roads when you buy gas. If you buy anything you pay sales tax. Even a bum on the corner who begs for change pays tax on what he purchases. So most do pay for those services because they simply cannot avoid them.

There are some who do avoid paying Major amounts of Taxes however and those are the Big Corps. who have rigged the system to somehow actually get negative Tax Rates. You want to talk freeloading, they're the ones to be pissed off about. The Homeless, The Unemployed and The Poverty Class aren't the ones buying up politicians and getting laws made to benefit them. They don't have the resources to do any of those things. You really think they are the ones who have rigged the system for their own benefit??? Does it seem like a mistake in Priority Assessment to be made because a homeless guy might get a free meal or food rations while a huge Multinational Corp. making record profits get's billions in subsidies???



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: greencmp

But nothing is guaranteed. Again, you have to rely on assumptions and purity of intent to make it viable.


I am working with a premise that I consider a priori, that is true.

You brought up extortion, such problems are important to consider not because they will arise due to laissez-faire but, because those problems are universal and thus, the removal of the one evil doesn't affect the other.

Economic anarchy doesn't need to address it. In a political anarchy there would still be judicial systems and it becomes one of the criteria for choosing where you want to live.

Many of us travel around the world so, stepping into another judicial system or many during the course of the day isn't uncommon in our existing experience.

I should remind you that my position is short of anarchy as a minarchist and constitutional republican but, the principals of anarcho-capitalism work almost as well in a limited government.
edit on 9-8-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: introvert

But commercial property owners pay for streets and services so commerce can happen.



No true.


Gas taxes and other fees paid by drivers now cover less than half of road construction and maintenance costs nationally – down from more than 70 percent in the 1960s – with the balance coming chiefly from income, sales and property taxes and other levies on general taxpayers.

Source

We all pay for them.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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In an world of anarchy...

I don't like someone, so I go and kill the guy. No laws, right? Well, that person's family isn't happy that I killed him so now we have a Hatfield & McCoy style blood feud.

That guy likes my dog, he steals it. I have no recourse but to steal it back and possibly kill he guy.

And we would only devolve from there...pretty soon we'd be living in caves, fending off each other with sharp pointy sticks after all the bullets have run out. Human beings aren't evolved enough to govern themselves without the rule of law.

If we had anarchy (no government, no law) -- it would be like that movie "The Purge". Society would collapse and we'd loose any progress we've gained. We essentially go back to tribalism (which itself isn't anarchy) because human beings always self-organize.

Anarchy can never happen -- people always want to find some kind of structure and social order. The stronger will always find a way to control the weaker. People will always want to have some kind of stability in their lives.

So, just like a liberal utopia being a pipe dream -- so is anarchy.
edit on 9-8-2015 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: xuenchen
What went wrong here ....

Venezuela: “We’re Scared To Go Into The Streets And Look For Food, The Crime Here Is Killing Us



Anarchy.


Anarchy?

But that country is a massive organized big government.

The government authoritarianism is rendering everything useless, not the people or any free market.




Who is preventing people from leaving their homes?


well gee i don't know.



it must be insane capitalists on the loose !!!



You posted this:


It’s the law of the jungle in Venezuela, as shopping for groceries becomes an increasingly dangerous activity. As the shortage crisis worsens, more and more angry mobs are raiding the nation’s supermarkets, looting whatever basic goods they can find.


Rioting is a form of Anarchy.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Actually they buy their own clothes out of their checks, uniforms included, from for profit corporations, so that's another matter of pointing at peripheral capitalist support industries as a problem for socialism.
And keep in mind that capitalism expects people to house themselves on 40 hours/week of minimum wage, which is what an E-1 makes, so really the fact that they sleep at work like fire fighters so often that they just get to drink their rent money can't be used against them either without giving in on a different capitalism vs socialism issue: minimum wage.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
In an world of anarchy...

I don't like someone, so I go and kill the guy. No laws, right? Well, that person's family isn't happy that I killed him so now we have a Hatfield & McCoy style blood feud.

That guy likes my dog, he steals it. I have no recourse but to steal it back and possibly kill he guy.

And we would only devolve from there...pretty soon we'd be living in caves, fending off each other with sharp pointy sticks after all the bullets have run out. Human beings aren't evolved enough to govern themselves without the rule of law.

If we had anarchy (no government, no law) -- it would be like that movie "The Purge". Society would collapse and we'd loose any progress we've gained. We essentially go back to tribalism (which itself isn't anarchy) because human beings always self-organize.

Anarchy can never happen -- people always want to find some kind of structure and social order. The stronger will always find a way to control the weaker. People will always want to have some kind of stability in their lives.

So, just like a liberal utopia being a pipe dream -- so is anarchy.


So don't do that.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Don't mis-represent.

I posted a link to an article.

And asked what went wrong.

The government there is still operating full blast.

An otherthrow may be in the works however.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: beezzer

I'm asking if you enjoy the benefits of what the collective wealth of the people can provide?



Police, fire, military, roads?

They aren't benefits.

They are services I pay for.



They are services WE pay for....you socialist.


It's an entitlement that a few pay for, for everyone else.


I disagree. We all pay for those services through various forms of taxes.



Perhaps we should get rid of them until everyone starts paying for these services.

Until then it's an entitlement to most, and a tax burden to a few.


That's a bit regressive, don't you think? What sense would that make?


If true socialism is the goal, then it makes perfect sense.

We all pay in and we all take out. If instead, the progressive goal is to have a few pay in so that everyone can take out ... then you aren't actually talking about socialism are you?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: Annee

And your criticism would be valid if ... Venezuela had a capitalist society, but it demonstrably does not. In Venezuela, the anarchy comes from the failure of socialism.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

Anarchy.


No... Venezuela's problems in lack of food, staple items, and other items are because of the socialist/communist rationing system...

Anarchy appears in true socialist/communist nations after the socialist rationing systems are implemented...


Despite Riches, Venezuela Starts Food Rationing
Government Rolls Out Fingerprint Scanners to Limit Purchases of Basic Goods; ‘How Is it Possible We’ve Gotten to This Extreme’

By Sara Schaefer Muñoz
Oct. 22, 2014 8:54 p.m. ET
117 COMMENTS

MARACAIBO, Venezuela—Amid worsening shortages, Venezuela recently reached a milestone of dubious distinction: It has joined the ranks of North Korea and Cuba in rationing food for its citizens.

On a recent, muggy morning, Maria Varge stood in line outside a Centro 99 grocery store, ready to scour the shelves for scarce items like cooking oil and milk. But before entering, Ms. Varge had to scan her fingerprint to ensure she wouldn’t buy more than her share.

Despite its technological twist on the old allotment booklet, Venezuela’s new program of rationing is infuriating consumers who say it creates tiresome waits, doesn’t relieve shortages and overlooks the far-reaching economic overhauls the country needs to resolve the problem.

“These machines make longer lines,” said Ms. Varge, 50, as she was jostled by people in line, “but you get inside, and they still don’t have what you want.”
...

www.wsj.com...

BTW, if you want to see what is happening in most markets in Venezuela just search on youtube. Search "fights for food in Venezuela"...







Many times Venezuelans now have to wait in line 9 -10 hours to buy food products.

At about minute 3, a Venezuelan in the following video explains how long Venezuelans have to wait now in line when food products are available.



Not only that, but apart from this "socialist rationing" more and more liberties have been lost in Venezuela, and crime has increased tremendously, thanks to "socialism/communism".

There were 24,000 murders in Venezuela in 2014.

You should watch this first video to hear what the Venezuelan Edgardo Lander, Prof., Universidad Central de Venezuela en Caracas has to say about what has caused crime to increase even after Chavez claimed that with more education and better opportunities for the poor that crime would decrease, which was not the case.







I find it ironic how certain people always love to try to either blame the problems of socialism and communism on capitalism, or they try to blame something else when it is the socialist and communist programs that cause these problems.

True socialism and communism has always and will always make things worse in those nations that embrace these systems.





edit on 9-8-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



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