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Socialism is Not a 4 Letter Word

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posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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besides for a couple or northern Europe countries that i would likely consider to live in, America is my #1 choice, hands down.....you make of it what you want




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: greencmp
Cronyism is the unholy alliance between big government and special interests of all types.

Cronyism can exist without government and that is why you don't see free markets.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
I see people arguing over which master to have, but none are espousing individuality and "none" except for a few.

Espouse in one hand...
edit on 9-8-2015 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: beezzer

That remains to be seen. Until then it's all melodrama on your part.


You keep on calling me melodramatic.

Is that how you refer to people who don't agree with your socialist utopia?


what individuality are you lacking, beez?....what "chains of society" are you wearing that makes you so grim?....what master do you feel that you are serving?


I'd like to think I serve no master.

But in reality, we can only choose which master we serve.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Ya whatever dude.

Anarchy!


I see people arguing over which master to have, but none are espousing individuality and "none" except for a few.


What system of government and economic model would you be in favor of?


I'd lean towards "free market anarchism".


In an "anti-capitalist" way, socialist, or the geolibertarian form?
edit on 9-8-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Ya whatever dude.

Anarchy!


Look, a corporation can be corrupt. Yes. But what makes a corporation corrupt is that it's a bureaucracy of people.

The government is, well, largely a bureaucracy of people. Just giving it the label of "government" does not make it any different than the corporate bureaucracy. And, it is far larger. Do you realize, for example, that the bureaucracy that runs the British health care system employs more than the US military? Just imagine how many employees we'd end up with in a similar type of system in our country given the relative population differences.

Sort of scary.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

If there were anarchy, how would we prevent a corporation from closing the "free" market? I could monopolize retail by hiring thugs to beat my competitors customers, then embargo every manufacturer who didn't sell out to my cartel.

Edit: I don't need the government chaining me and telling me what I can tell my thugs to do or who can or can't but my services.
edit on Sun 9 Aug 2015 by The Vagabond because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Xtrozero

So your comparing the living conditions of being in a war zone as A marine to the topic of discussion in this thread?

Give me a break.


You miss my point, or care not to think about it....

Take the military...

2 million active duty and reserve
2 million retirees
1 million civilians in support roles.

This costs the Government 25% of their defense budget or about 150 billion per year. One way they keep the cost down is lower ranks (the largest numbers) live together, eat together and all have the same clothes. Best bang for the buck. Over in Afghanistan and Iraq all are under this style of living, and once again most bang for the buck.

This is a huge cost for 5 million people, think of 100 million or more. The more people the less choices, less freedoms, less privacy in everything. We get to a point of a sea of HUDs and soup kitchens since there is just not enough to go around.





edit on 9-8-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: Isurrender73
...
Social programs are not the cause of the massive debt in the country. Except possibly the ungodly amount spent on Military. And most of that money goes to friends of the globalist agenda.


Meanwhile social programs are not the only reason why so many countries are in trouble, you are hiding your head under the sand if you think that over-spending in social programs is not part of the problem.


originally posted by: Isurrender73

Anyone who thinks we are 18 trillion in debt because of social programs needs to do some homework on ATS. The information on the debt is out there, just use the search function on ATS until your satisfied that our debt has nothing to do with immigration, welfare, or any other social program.


I didn't say we were in the economic crisis only because of the over spending in social programs, but anyone who thinks that such over spending is not part of the problem, that person needs to do some proper research.


...
Most economists agree that commitment to social welfare programs, demographic trends, and fundamental macroeconomic shifts are the main causes of the deterioration of the fiscal positions across the industrial world.
...

www.nrb.org.np...


originally posted by: Isurrender73
We pay plenty of taxes to pay for social programs. What we can't afford is to continue to pay interest on bogus debt created by a bogus banking system.



First of all, let's talk about taxes, not GNP, but taxes. I know that generally when spending in social programs are mentioned, it is mentioned as a percentage of GNP (Gross National Product), but the truth is that "income taxes" are what pays for social programs not the GNP.

Let's see some figures.


Not including Social Security and Medicare, Congress allocated almost $717 billion in Federal funds in 2010 plus $210 billion was allocated in state funds ($927 billion total) for means tested welfare programs in the United States.
...
Total Social Security and Medicare expenditures in 2013 were $1.3 trillion, 8.4% of the $16.3 trillion GNP (2013) and 37% of the total Federal expenditure budget of $3.684 trillion.
...
In addition to government expenditures private welfare spending in the United States is thought to be about 10% of the U.S. GDP or another $1.6 trillion.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

We can rule out the $1.6 trillion that is spent in "private welfare spending". But in total the U.S. pays about $2.3 trillion USD in total social security, medicare and other social programs.

in 2014 Federal Revenue was $3 trillion USD, of that $3 trillion $2.1 trillion are spent on welfare programs and social security plus medicare. Now, remember that there is only $900 billion more for other expenditures.

Apart from welfare, social security and medicare expenditure we also pay for medicare.

In the U.S. the total expenditure in medicare for 2014 was $475,909,674,990 That's $476 billion USD.

kff.org...

Then there are other healthcare expenditures apart from Medicare and Medicaid which include health research, food safety, and public health services and disease control.

Let's not forget that about 8% of each person's income tax goes towards paying the U.S. debt. Then there is immigration, law enforcement, the nation's court system. Then there is natural resources, energy and environment management, international affairs, science space and technology, etc, etc.

In total we spend well over $3-3.2 trillion U.S.D. we get in income taxes.



edit on 9-8-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct post.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Can I just hate both ?

I have a lot of hate to share


Yes, yes you most certainly can!




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Ya whatever dude.

Anarchy!


I see people arguing over which master to have, but none are espousing individuality and "none" except for a few.


What system of government and economic model would you be in favor of?


I'd lean towards "free market anarchism".


In an "anti-capitalist" way, socialist, or the geolibertarian form?


Dunno.

I like capitalism. I can't stand government.

I think I should be free to trade my skills for a form of currency that'll allow me to live in comfort.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: beezzer

If there were anarchy, how would we prevent a corporation from closing the "free" market? I could monopolize retail by hiring thugs to beat my competitors customers, then embargo every manufacturer who didn't sell out to my cartel.

Edit: I don't need the government chaining me and telling me what I can tell my thugs to do or who can or can't but my services.


You are now touching on the basic premise of the free market, that without the power of the threat of state supported violence, such an attempt would almost certainly end in the abridgment of their corporeal manifestation.

Violence begets violence, it is only when the state conducts it that armed monopolization is possible. Otherwise, we compete on the merits of our products and services.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: beezzer

If there were anarchy, how would we prevent a corporation from closing the "free" market? I could monopolize retail by hiring thugs to beat my competitors customers, then embargo every manufacturer who didn't sell out to my cartel.
Drug cartels do this all the time.


No corporation lasts, that uses those methods.



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Ya whatever dude.

Anarchy!


I see people arguing over which master to have, but none are espousing individuality and "none" except for a few.


What system of government and economic model would you be in favor of?


I'd lean towards "free market anarchism".


In an "anti-capitalist" way, socialist, or the geolibertarian form?


Dunno.

I like capitalism. I can't stand government.

I think I should be free to trade my skills for a form of currency that'll allow me to live in comfort.


Do you also like roads, firemen, police, the military, etc?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

THEY do, if they are paid by the government...



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: greencmp
Cronyism is the unholy alliance between big government and special interests of all types.

Cronyism can exist without government and that is why you don't see free markets.


No, it specifically requires a regulatory state to enact defensive legislation.

I think what you mean is that unsavory characters will always exist and some amount of people will always attempt to misrepresent their offerings to their own advantage.

The free market solution is to not buy from them anymore, abstinence is an incredibly effective tool, far more effective than violence.
edit on 9-8-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: greencmp



The free market solution is to not buy from them anymore, abstinence is an incredibly effective tool


That sounds good in theory until you have to abstain from a monopoly. What do you do if someone has a monopoly on something required to sustain life, such as medicine?

Abstinence could mean death, correct?



posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: introvert

Commerce does not create poverty.




posted on Aug, 9 2015 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
I'm amused at the people who despise corporations but embrace government.

Government is the biggest corporation there is.


Ya whatever dude.

Anarchy!


I see people arguing over which master to have, but none are espousing individuality and "none" except for a few.


What system of government and economic model would you be in favor of?


I'd lean towards "free market anarchism".


In an "anti-capitalist" way, socialist, or the geolibertarian form?


Dunno.

I like capitalism. I can't stand government.

I think I should be free to trade my skills for a form of currency that'll allow me to live in comfort.


Do you also like roads, firemen, police, the military, etc?


Are you asking if I like taxes?

No.

They are necessary, however.

And f government just kept to roads, fire, police and the military, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.



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