Kerry/Edwards Ohio Strategery

Originally posted by syntaxer

Originally posted by Realist05

Realist05 are you claiming that this story will discredit the movites/efforts of John Conyers based on MIA Turkeys?

Good luck! Great comic relief, tho.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by syntaxer

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Though worded nicely, I havta say..

The state is made up of human beings, which in this case, happen to be highly partisan.

Don't forget those same human beings may of had remote access!

Even if there was remote access, the ability to change the vote count without any trace of evidence would have to had to be supported by the software/firmware on the system. I doubt the many people of all political stripes from the several States who reviewed the systems in question would have let this pass.

[edit on 1/5/2005 by djohnsto77]

God, no! Let him speak for as long as he wants, let the nation witness what we in Michigan have been laughing at for 20 years.

By the by, the evidence of election fraud in Washington state seems far more persuasive than the polling evidence in Ohio, but Rossi is still the loser.

Originally posted by Realist05

By the by, the evidence of election fraud in Washington state seems far more persuasive than the polling evidence in Ohio, but Rossi is still the loser.

Have you read the information I've posted; or, that others have?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I doubt the many people of all political stripes from the several States who reviewed the systems in question would have let this pass.

The problem is that they didn't.

If their processes meet the definition of "review" then it is akin to you accepting Ohio's (read Blackwell's) response to the FOI request as an acceptable response to audit. It's complete bollocks.

See my post earlier on Ohio's "F" grade.


[edit on 5-1-2005 by MaskedAvatar]

Help me out here, is there a Wash. Gov. thread started? Did it get into the county overcount or identical handwriting on 4000 absentee ballots?

Originally posted by Realist05
By the by, the evidence of election fraud in Washington state seems far more persuasive than the polling evidence in Ohio

On what do you base that comment? Do you include all the other evidence from Ohio besides the radical turnaround of the result on exit polls, or are you used to comparing apples with angler fish?

It is typical that evidence is "persuasive" if it supports your own side or your own goals.

One day ATS could rise above that, but not on current form.

Originally posted by Realist05
Help me out here, is there a Wash. Gov. thread started? Did it get into the county overcount or identical handwriting on 4000 absentee ballots?

If there isn't one, please start one this is the most blatent example of my last post. Unfortunately, the SCOTUS won't get involved in this one like they were able to in 2000. Legislation from the court bench to change laws after the election is always a bad idea.

The US senate has the opportunity in the next 24 hours to do something about one of the most corrupt electoral systems of any democracy on the planet.

Will it act?

Or will it be deemed acceptable to incorporate every branch of government, including the judiciary, into a self-serving, criminal web of deceit?


www.suntimes.com...

January 4, 2005
BY JESSE JACKSON

This Thursday in Washington Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), the senior minority member of the House Judiciary Committee, will formally object to the counting of the Ohio electoral vote in the 2004 presidential election. If any senator joins him, the counting of the vote is suspended and the House and the Senate must convene separately to hear the objections filed, and to vote on whether to accept them.



The grounds for the objections are clear: The irregularities in the Ohio vote and vote count are widespread and blatant. If the Ohio election were held in the Ukraine, it would not have been certified by the international community.

In Ohio, the gulf between exit polls and counted votes is vast and glaring. Blatant discrimination in the distribution of voting machines ensured long lines in inner-city and working-class precincts that favored John Kerry, while the exurban districts that favored President Bush had no similar problems.

Systematic efforts were made to suppress and challenge the new voters in Kerry precincts, whether students or African Americans. Some precincts were certified with more votes than the number registered; others were certified with preposterously low turnouts. Voting machines, produced by a company headed by a vowed Bush supporter, provide no paper record. Ohio's secretary of state, the inappropriately partisan head of the state's Bush campaign, has resisted any systematic recount of the ballots.

The systematic bias and potential for fraud is unmistakable. An in-depth investigation is vital -- and the partisan secretary of state has opposed it every step of the way. In this context, Conyers and his colleagues in the House are serving the nation's best interests in demanding an investigation of the irregularities in Ohio, and objecting to business as usual in counting the vote.




Previous partisan responses to the message of Rev. Jackson have been to shoot the messenger. Go to it, all that is lost is credibility and democracy.

Well, it seems that Kerry himself has acknowledged defeat:

Dear Josh,

No American citizen should wake up the morning after the election and worry their vote wasn't counted. No citizen should be denied at the polls if they are eligible to vote. And, as the greatest, wealthiest nation on earth, our citizens should never be forced to vote on old, unaccountable and non transparent voting machines from companies controlled by partisan activists.

Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors.

Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

But, that does not mean we should abandon our commitment to addressing those problems that happened in Ohio. We must act today to make sure they never happen again.

I urge you to join me in using this occasion to highlight our demand that Congress commit itself this year to reforming the electoral system. A Presidential election is a national federal election but we have different standards in different states for casting and counting votes. We need a national federal standard to solve the problems that occurred in the 2004 election. I will propose legislation to help achieve this.

Florida 2000 was a wake up call. But the Republicans who control Congress ignored it. Will they now ignore what happened in 2004?

There are nearly 3,000,000 of you receiving this email. We accomplished so much together during the campaign. Now let's use our power to make sure that at least one good thing comes from the voting rights problems of the 2004 election. If we want to force real action on election reform, we've got to demand that congressional leaders hold full hearings. Make sure they hear from you and help hold them accountable.

Speaker Dennis Hastert: 1-202-225-0600
Leader Bill Frist: 1-202-224-3135

And please report that you've made your call right here:
www.johnkerry.com...

I want every vote counted because Americans have to know that the votes they stood in line for, fought for, and strived so hard to cast in an election, are counted. We must make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. It's critical to our democracy that we investigate and act to prevent voting irregularities and voter intimidation across the country. We can't stand still as Congressional leaders seek to sweep well-founded voter concerns under the rug.

Please join with me in calling Speaker Hastert and Leader Frist and telling them that you want action on election reform now.

A recent report from Representative John Conyers (D-Michigan) reveals very troubling questions that have not yet been answered by Ohio election officials. I commend the Democratic National Committee for its announcement this week that the DNC will be investing resources and reaching out to non-partisan academics in a long term study of Ohio voting irregularities. I am only sorry that we haven't seen the same from Ohio Secretary of State Blackwell and GOP officials.

Congress must play a positive, proactive role on this issue. That's why I will soon introduce legislation to reform our election system, ensuring transparency and accountability in our voting system and that all Americans have an opportunity to vote and have their vote counted.

Please remember to let us know that you made your call when you're done. We're hoping to ensure House and Senate leaders' offices hear our demand for action on election reform in meaningful way. Please take a moment to let us know you have made your call here: www.johnkerry.com...

Thank you,

John Kerry

P.S. Thanks to all those who participated in our USO "phone home" campaign last week. The totals are coming in from the USO, and they are thrilled with your generosity and support for our brave men and women in uniform. We will send you totals as we get them.



Paid for by Friends of John Kerry, Inc.

So there ya go.

So... another Skull & Bones member comes up short of saying "That's a clean election result", but provides another feel good message, and all is good with the world in the US electoral system?

Nuh-uh.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
JAMES ZOGBY, of all people, called it for Kerry by 6 p.m. Nov. 2. The exit polls were all showing a Kerry win. Then the numbers were re-jiggered and the outcome fell to Bush. There were different ways the final numbers were manipulated this time around.

Please explain, if you will, Why the exit polls were accurate for all the elections prior to this year (that I mentioned) and yet, not this year?

Zogby also went on record as calling the election for Kerry several days before it was actually held. He did this on Fox News.

Perhaps this article will shed light on the exit polls from a different angle:

Exit Polls Can't Always Predict Winners, So Don't Expect Them To
an excerpt:

Perhaps the Democratic skew this year was the result of picking the wrong precincts to sample?

A post-election review of these precincts showed that they matched the overall returns.

Whatever produced the pro-Kerry tilt was a consequence of something happening within these precincts.

This year, it seems that Bush voters were underrepresented in the samples.

The question is, why were they missed?

Mitofsky, the veteran pollster who co-directed this year's exit surveys, fears that Republican voters refused to be interviewed in disproportionately higher numbers, thus skewing the results.

Perhaps they were busier than Democrats and didn't have time to be interviewed.

Perhaps they disliked the media's coverage of Bush, and showed it by snubbing poll interviewers.

Whatever the reason, Mitofsky warned the networks about the apparent Democratic bias mid-afternoon on Election Day -- a caution "they chose to ignore," he told Terence Smith on PBS.

www.ronaldreagan.com...

Past exit polls are not without their problems. As recently as 2000 and 2002 they have showed to be unreliable. Remember the problems with VNS exit polls in 2002? A short quote to refresh your memory:

CNN.com is committed to bringing you full exit poll results when available. However, Due to problems with exit polls from Voter News Service (VNS), no exit poll data is available for the 2002 elections.

www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
So... another Skull & Bones member comes up short of saying "That's a clean election result", but provides another feel good message, and all is good with the world in the US electoral system?

Nuh-uh.

Clean and legal are very rarely one and the same. Legal is what counts in the end result.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Clean and legal are very rarely one and the same. Legal is what counts in the end result.

So you admit to advocating a DIRTY system? So, are you a representation of most conservatives? If so, it would seem that the conservatives who preach a so called higher moral level, are willing to accept dirty politics because a law makes it legal. Well thats a good outlook for our country

So if they legalize murdering someone because they took your tootsie roll, it would be OK. I mean, after all, there would be a law allowing it.

[edit on 1/5/05 by Kidfinger]

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
So... another Skull & Bones member comes up short of saying "That's a clean election result", but provides another feel good message, and all is good with the world in the US electoral system?

Nuh-uh.

MA, do you think Kerry has just plain rolled over b/c that's his S&B function?

More info. for inquiring minds....

Vote Fraud 2004:
How Ohio was "Delivered" to Bush

IN mid-August [2003], Walden W. O'Dell, the chief executive of Diebold Inc., sat down at his computer to compose a letter inviting 100 wealthy and politically inclined friends to a Republican Party fund-raiser, to be held at his home in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. ''I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year,'' wrote Mr. O'Dell, whose company is based in Canton, Ohio.

That is hardly unusual for Mr. O'Dell. A longtime Republican, he is a member of President Bush's ''Rangers and Pioneers,'' an elite group of loyalists who have raised at least $100,000 each for the 2004 race. [New York Times]

How To Rig An Election In The United States


October 21, 2004 - "The Bush campaign is confident it can win the state [Ohio]; as if to prove its comfort level, today marks 14 days since the Republican president last set foot in Ohio," Cleveland's Plain Dealer wrote this past Saturday [October 16]. By the time Bush arrives in Canton tomorrow, he'll have gone 19 days without campaigning in the Buckeye State. His last stop here was in Cuyahoga Falls on Oct. 2. [Slate MSN]
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Originally posted by Kidfinger
willing to accept dirty politics because a law makes it legal. Well thats a good outlook for our country

So if they legalize murdering someone because they took your tootsie roll, it would be OK. I mean, after all, there would be a law allowing it.

"I'm confident, that every person that has been put to death in Texas under my watch has been guilty of the crime charged, and has had full access to the courts." George W. Bush

131 prisoners died in his five years as governor of Texas. Act's of a man close to god? or acts of a man who thinks he's god?

In a few short hours, John Conyers will test the true legitimacy of US democracy. Will there be a repeat of 2000?

[edit on 6-1-2005 by syntaxer]

IN mid-August [2003], Walden W. O'Dell, the chief executive of Diebold Inc., sat down at his computer to compose a letter inviting 100 wealthy and politically inclined friends to a Republican Party fund-raiser, to be held at his home in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. ''I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year,'' wrote Mr. O'Dell, whose company is based in Canton, Ohio.

The chips are falling faster and faster. Yet anothe example of gross negligence on the part of a non partisan voting system. This is really not right on so many levels. I mean, the guy that owns Dibold is a conservative that ACTIVELY gives monitary support for an election year What in the hell were they thinking Oh, I know, they were thinking they would ensure Bush's re-elecion no matter what they had to do. Including cheating. What a joke our system of checks and balances have become


Syntaxer,

Defanitly a man acting as if he is God. Bushes new title: Bush, The Most Holy HYPOCRITE!

Originally posted by syntaxer
On Thursday at 1:00pm,

John Conyers will rise and object to the vote count in Ohio. According to the laws of this land, he will not be allowed to speak unless at least one member of the US senate agrees to let him have the floor.

2000 Deja Vu in the works?

I'll be watching c-span on Thursday. If not a single Senator stands up Dem or Rep alike, i will forever bow my head in shame and no longer believe in the greater cause of US democracy.

Can it happen twice?

It appears now that Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-California) will join the representatives in this objection. I have no problem with letting them spew these conspiracy theories ad nauseum televised and on the Congressional record. It will provide a great resource of material to be used in Republican political commercials for the 2006 mid-term Congressional elections.

[edit on 1/6/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
It appears now that Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-California) will join the representatives in this objection. I have no problem with letting them spew these conspiracy theories ad nausem televised and on the Congressional record. It will provide a great resource of material to be used in Republican political commercials for the 2006 mid-term Congressional elections.

I see that you have been blessed by your god, Carl Rove.

Make a single peep you demo's and you'll pay the price for a long time, a very loooong time

It's great to know the future of democracy lay in hands of simple 'bullying'