Kerry/Edwards Ohio Strategery

as posted by Seekerof
Twice asked already, how many people in Ohio used touch-screen voting machines? 13%, 25%, 50%, how many?

The number was and is nearly 14.6% of the Ohio voters utilized electronic touch-screen voting machines, MaskedAvatar. This leaves approx. 85% who did not. There were nearly 5.7 million people who cast votes in Ohio.



seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Screw exit polls. Its the voters that determine results and thats what counts, not exit polls.
seekerof

Seekerof, you know as well as I do, exit polls are no more than the best snapshot of the outcome.

The intelligentsia hails exit polls in one case (Ukraine, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Bush I victories) then when the masters raise their eyebrow in subtle re-direction, exit polls are suddenly "notoriously unreliable." I think the average person is smart enuff to know you cannot have it both ways.

both ways?

as posted by ECK
...exit polls are suddenly "notoriously unreliable."

Excuse me, people have not been chiming that they are "notoriously unreliable." Funny that you say that, but yet never hesitate to mention that Bush 'stole' the 2000 Elections. Were there problems with the exit polls then? Seems so. No ECK, what I have been saying is that they are not infalliable. If used in the proper manner, they are fairly reliable, but as has been stated in this thread, the 2004 exit polls were inflated in Kerry's favor. Link was provided.

One thing is for sure:
Voters can lie to a pollster on who they voted for. (exit polls)
Voters cannot lie in placing their votes. (non-exit polls)

Your claim and assertions that exit polls do not lie is bunk and was debunked.




seekerof

On Thursday at 1:00pm,

John Conyers will rise and object to the vote count in Ohio. According to the laws of this land, he will not be allowed to speak unless at least one member of the US senate agrees to let him have the floor.

2000 Deja Vu in the works?

I'll be watching c-span on Thursday. If not a single Senator stands up Dem or Rep alike, i will forever bow my head in shame and no longer believe in the greater cause of US democracy.

Can it happen twice?

Originally posted by Seekerof
both ways?

as posted by ECK
...exit polls are suddenly "notoriously unreliable."

Excuse me, people have not been chiming that they are "notoriously unreliable." Funny that you say that, but yet never hesitate to mention that Bush 'stole' the 2000 Elections. Were there problems with the exit polls then?

Breathe deeply, Seekerof.. I must've hit a nerve, there.

Where have you been? Or perhaps, you don't have access to the powers I spoke of? They most certainly, like the knobs they are, repeat that sudden and fraudulent claim that exit polls are notoriously unreliable. It's pure BU#. They know it, you know it, I know it. But you won't admit it. That's cool, tho. We don't need you to.

It took me awhile before I was ready to acknowledge the shenanigans that took place in 2000. Remember, I voted for Bush and truly believed that it was handled with all due diligence and good faith. It wasn't until I came to learn about how Harris and Jebbie purged the voter rolls that I accepted the truth of them manipulating the Florida vote to their advantage. At roughly the same time, I began to notice how the Neo Cons were attempting to subvert the Republican and American agenda towards their own perverse aims. That informed me greatly on what these bastards are capable of.

JAMES ZOGBY, of all people, called it for Kerry by 6 p.m. Nov. 2. The exit polls were all showing a Kerry win. Then the numbers were re-jiggered and the outcome fell to Bush. There were different ways the final numbers were manipulated this time around.

Please explain, if you will, Why the exit polls were accurate for all the elections prior to this year (that I mentioned) and yet, not this year?

Originally posted by syntaxer
On Thursday at 1:00pm,

If not a single Senator stands up Dem or Rep alike, i will forever bow my head in shame and no longer believe in the greater cause of US democracy.

Can it happen twice?

Yes, it WILL happen twice. There is nothing we can do about it but bitch and moan. I lost faith in democracy the day Bush was reelected. Democracy is a sham. An illusion maintained in order to keep control over the masses.

[edit on 1/5/05 by Kidfinger]

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Yes, it WILL happen twice. There is nothing we can do about it but bitch and moan. I lost faith in democracy the day Bush was reelected. Democracy is a sham. An illusion maintained in order to keep control over the masses.

How does the famous Dubya Texan saying go? "you can fool me once, shame on you"

So ya, I think we're about to be fooled twice here. You know what? I'd like to see the other members of ATS who are following this matter to also lay it on the line, to declare democracy a "sham" if on Thursday not a single Senator allows John Conyers to speak.

Carpe diem little sheep, Caaaarpeee dieeem!

Originally posted by syntaxer

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Yes, it WILL happen twice. There is nothing we can do about it but bitch and moan. I lost faith in democracy the day Bush was reelected. Democracy is a sham. An illusion maintained in order to keep control over the masses.

How does the famous Dubya Texan saying go? "you can fool me once, shame on you"

So ya, I think we're about to be fooled twice here. You know what? I'd like to see the other members of ATS who are following this matter to also lay it on the line, to declare democracy a "sham" if on Thursday not a single Senator allows John Conyers to speak.

Carpe diem little sheep, Caaaarpeee dieeem!

After thursday, there wont be a day to seize

I agree that there should be a paper record for the new electronic voting machines...but this is not a new problem! Here in New York City, we have ancient mechanical voting machines where you go up to the machine, turn little mechanical levers to indicate your votes, then pull a huge red lever that resets the little levers you turned and supposedly records your vote.

According to the results in my county, New York county, 82% of people voted for Kerry and only 17% voted for Bush. Hey, what gives? I voted for Bush! Does this mean that the Democratic controlled local governments rigged the machines? I tend to think that it is simply that most of my neighbors are left-wing-nuts....

All that is needed to peel the lid off this can 'o' worms is ONE Senator. Calling one honest, fearless Senator! Is there one single, uncompromised Senator out there who is not terrified of the truth?

Presidential Election 2004: BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, BUSH DID NOT WIN THE OHIO OR NATIONAL VOTE

BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, BUSH DID NOT WIN THE OHIO OR NATIONAL VOTE

HISTORIC PRESIDENTIAL CHALLENGE.
PRESS CONFERENCE, NATIONAL PRESS CLUB, WASHINGTON, D.C.
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 5TH AT 2:00 PM Press Conference Tomorrow -- Wednesday, Jan. 5th -- 2:00 P.M. -- National Press Club, Washington, D.C.

Ilene PRoctor
International Public Relations
Press Contact:
Ilene Proctor (310) 271 5857 or (310) 721-2336
Kat L�Estrange (541) 510-5646

WHO:
Lead plaintiff, Moss v. Bush, Rev. Bill Moss
Lead trial counsel, Peter Peckarsky
Professor and statistical expert, Ron Baiman, Ph.D.
Publisher and lawyer, Bob Fitrakis
Lawyer, Susan Truitt
Exit polling expert, Jonathan Simon, JD
Senior editor, freepress.org. Harvey Wasserman
Legal statistician, Richard Hayes-Phillips, Ph.D
Director, Progressive Democrats of America, Tim Carpenter
NAACP, National Voter Fund, Greg Moore
Author Warren Linney, MA (The Patriot Test)

WHAT:
� Exit polls did not match the reported vote in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida and 7 of 8 other key battleground states
� Voting machines with secret software owned by private, partisan companies subject to manipulation and which deprived citizens of their right to fair and transparent elections
� Uncounted and provisional ballots negatively and disproportionately affected African American voters
� Inexplicable vote disparities
� Voting Rights Act Violations
� Recount did not recount all the votes
� Challenge at January 6 Joint Session of Congress

WHY:
TO PROVIDE FULL BACKGROUND ON KEY ASSERTIONS PRIOR TO THE HISTORIC CONGRESSIONAL CHALLENGE TO THE 2004 VOTE

PARTIAL LIST OF EVIDENCE:
There is clear and compelling evidence that the election was stolen. By examining a very wide range of sworn testimonies from voters, polling officials and others close to the administration of the Nov. 2 election; by statistical analysis of the certified vote by mathematicians, election experts and independent research teams who have conducted detailed studies of the results in Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere; from experts who studied the voting machines, tabulators and other electronic equipment on which a fair vote count has depended; and from a team of attorneys and others who have challenged the Ohio results; the freepress.org investigative team has compiled a portrait of an election whose true outcome must be investigated further by the Congress, the media and all Americans -- because it was almost certainly not an honest victory for George W. Bush.
www.ilcaonline.org...

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Here in New York City, we have ancient mechanical voting machines where you go up to the machine, turn little mechanical levers to indicate your votes, then pull a huge red lever that resets the little levers you turned and supposedly records your vote.

Hey, what gives? I voted for Bush! Does this mean that the Democratic controlled local governments rigged the machines? I tend to think that it is simply that most of my neighbors are left-wing-nuts....

Yes, it does mean that most of your neighbors are Liberals. It also means you didnt use the electronic voting system, as you yourself stated, and there was no electronic fraud. The electronic Dibold voting system is the whole reason Bush was able to supplant votes. If EVERYONE used the same system you used, we wouldnt be having this conversation right now because Bush would not be in office. The mechanicle voting system is the only honest way to vote and make sure your vote is counted. he electronic voting system is VERY EASILY manipulated and as such creates a HUGE security risk involved with voting.

It's simply outrageous that the companies who make and operate the machines (w/out a papertrail!) are avowed partisans. We are out of our collective minds to allow this.

The software of these machines was tested and the source code examined by the States and shown to be accurate, why would they be more prone to tampering than a mechanical device? I am afraid that the only threat to democracy is the growing non-acceptance of it by the losers...they think the only fair election is one where their side wins, even if by a coup affected by the legislature or the courts.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The software of these machines was tested and the source code examined by the States and shown to be accurate, why would they be more prone to tampering than a mechanical device? I am afraid that the only threat to democracy is the growing non-acceptance of it by the losers...they think the only fair election is one where their side wins, even if by a coup affected by the legislature or the courts.

Though worded nicely, I havta say..

The state is made up of human beings, which in this case, happen to be highly partisan.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The software of these machines was tested and the source code examined by the States and shown to be accurate, why would they be more prone to tampering than a mechanical device?

It is not the accuracy of the software in question. It is the ability to access the system and change the final vote tally.

The reason this is a more corrupt voting system is because I could change the votes while having a smoke and my morning coffee, in my own house. I dont need to be physically present at the machine to tamper with it. There is a back door in the software that allows remote access. With this remote access, you can do what ever you wish to the dibold database within each system.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Though worded nicely, I havta say..

The state is made up of human beings, which in this case, happen to be highly partisan.

Don't forget those same human beings may of had remote access!

Interesting article on the Hon. John Conyers in today's Detroit Free Press.
www.freep.com...

Where did turkeys go?

Gleaners asks if Conyers' staff helped needy people
January 5, 2005







BY JOEL THURTELL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER



The director of a Detroit food bank wants to know what happened to 60 turkeys -- 720 pounds of frozen birds -- that his charity gave to members of U.S. Rep. John Conyers' local staff two days before Thanksgiving to give to needy people.


Conyers' Detroit office promised an accounting of any turkey distribution by Dec. 27, but the Gleaners Community Food Bank had received no paperwork as of Tuesday, said the charity's director, Agostinho Fernandes.

OMIGOD! The man CANNOT be trusted! He swiped the poor folks turkeys!!!

A turkey-stealin' turkey!

Originally posted by Realist05
Interesting article on the Hon. John Conyers in today's Detroit Free Press.
www.freep.com...

Let me guess. Michael Moore was in the vacinity of when those turkeys went missing?

Realist05 are you claiming that this story will discredit the movites/efforts of John Conyers based on MIA Turkeys? Or perhaps this is just another Republican sway tactic, it smells of Carl Rove'ish.

Yes he must be a crook. The Senate should not allow him to speak regarding election irregularities based on missing turkeys.