"Because I exist," you must surrender your merits and achievements...

Wow am I ever getting tired of this crap. The direction of this nation, America, is enough to make a saint rage and an already angry man go completely postal. Somehow, "because I exist, I'm entitled to..." seems to be winning the war against the "you deserve what you have earned" attitude which built this country. The bitter irony is that when the entitlement nonsense was in its infancy in America, a large part of it focused on workers and workers' rights and benefits. Now, partially because of how successful those efforts were in creating a system of merit based benefits for the American worker, we are seeing the same politics attempt to tear that system apart.

-The ACA: America recently had a tremendous benefit package for many of its workers, including modest cost health insurance. For most professional workers, this benefit was negotiation tool. For most laborers, it was the result of union and industry standards. For almost all full time workers, it was far, far less expensive and more affordable than the ACA has made things. This change was entirely done to provide for those who had not earned their own health coverage. "Because I exist" scored over "I am earning this."

-The welfare system: Just a mere 20 years ago, welfare was a much leaner program than it presently is. It was aligned to provide food and housing for those in need and emergency medical care when needed. There was no subsidy for such things as phones and vehicles, cable TV and internet (20 years ago AOL was pretty popular) were not necessities, and you actually were required to demonstrate a need and an effort to remove yourself from that need through your own efforts. Multiple cars, cable TV, cell phones, and dial up internet were held in the realm of those who could afford it. Now, "because I exist" has entered the picture and not only are some of these luxuries subsidized by the working tax payers, it is considered improper to even ask the question: "If you can afford cable TV and an iPhone, why are you accepting food stamps?" The laborer rights movement in the US was directed at providing a system in which a laborer could EARN their way to luxuries... now it has become a bastardization in which the laborer can PAY TAXES so someone else can have their necessities bought for them, freeing up capital they can then use to buy luxuries themselves. "I am earning this" goes down! 10...9...8...7... and he's up but staggered!

-Obscene ideas for minimum wage increases: America's historical laborer rights movement dealt with physically demanding, and often extremely dangerous jobs that paid too little, demanded too much, and offered scant benefits. The jobs were tackled by the movement through a simple and fair mental model which stated: "Employers should expect their workers to put forth their best effort and, in exchange, provide these workers with a fair wage and a safe working environment. These workers should also be offered some safety nets in the form of health coverage, disability insurance, and worker's compensation policies." Note the underlying principle of "You are getting out what you invest." The company invests their paycheck and policies in return for productivity, the worker invests their productivity and time in return for the paycheck and policies. There was a reason at that time for some jobs to not fall under these policies. These jobs were relatively risk free, physically and mentally undemanding, and generally tailored to entry level or part time employment. It was acknowledged at that time that a person who worked 20 hours a week at Burger King was not performing an equivalent effort to someone working 40 hours a week digging ditchlines for a construction site or extracting coal from a mine, and thus was not reasonably able to demand the same protections or compensation. Enter "because I exist" and now we're seeing calls for these low demand, low productivity jobs to be compensated at nearly twice the current minimum wage AND receive a full menu of benefits.

"I am earning this" goes back down... if we're fighting under the 3 knockdown rule, this fight is nearing an end. Unfortunately for "because I exist," the titleholder is "Who is left to pay for all this?" One of two things will happen:
1. "Who's left to pay for all of this" loses and with everybody at the bottom there will be no one left to really give a crap who "exists," let alone subsidize their lives.
2. "Who's left to pay for all of this" knocks "because I exist" completely out of the ring and America will become a true oligarchy with no middle class and a small wealthy class at the top who can then pay workers peanuts because the pool of potential employees will be vast and demand for the jobs will be such that many will work for a lot less.

Either way, if "I am earning this" is defeated, America loses and it loses in a massive way. I really wish some of the (and let's be adults here who are willing to call it as it is) selfish individuals out there who feel everything should be handed to them simply "because they exist" would mature to the point that they no longer acted like children, dependent on mommy and daddy to feed the, buy their toys, and wipe their noses when they sneeze.

Epic rant, and so true.

I am not against modest social safety net. Some people genuinely do need them, but the true numbers of those people are far smaller than our current welfare population.

What we need is a whole lot less government in the way.

Honestly...what gets me...is this feeling of "inequality".

If I were to stumble across one of the "elite", I wouldn't hold my hand out. I don't feel they are in any way shape or form unequal to me.


And guess what....the $15/hr minimum salary? Those jobs are simply going to vanish.

In the America you describe, which is accurate, this post will be considered "Heartless" and "demeaning to the poor".

My challenge to those that CAN, BUT WON'T DO, is this:

If you have minimum skills...You get minimum pay and benefits.

If, however, you desire to EARN more, then you will increase your skills via the many free educational and vocational options available to you.

If you do the latter your are far more likely to not only succeed in life, but lift those around you up as well.

If you choose the former and instead demand that you be compensated for your laziness, then you will drag us all down with you..You might find that it is much harder to succeed in a society that has nothing to offer.

I wish I could shake your hand! A star and flag are nowhere near enough.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics."

-Thomas Sowell

Well, I like to look at these things logically, and logic tells me that you are not, in any way, shape or form "surrendering your merits and achievements" for others to be able to afford to eat, for instance.

Also, I love to keep track of intelligent posts, MystikMushroom said it better on another thread, than I ever could:

Well, it's that the value of the individual human life has been diminished.

People are literally disposable to the people in control of government and the economy.

And when you treat people like disposable drones, they'll begin to exhibit behavior that mimics this. People are behaving in crazy ways to lash out against he marginalization they're feeling.

When a CEO makes 937% more than their average employee it makes you think -- is the CEO worth 937% more? Is that one man or woman's life worth 937% more to the planet Earth?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: MoonBlossom

1. I believe my OP was pretty obvious in dealing with middle class Americans, not CEOs.
2. If you really are into the logic aspect of things, then you'll surely appreciate the logic of number format manipulation intended to make something appear even more dramatic. 937% is the same as 9.37 times... Not as dramatic there, is it? Here's an even more logical way to report it... The average CEO who pays his employees $10/hr is himself making $93.70/hr, or $194,896 per year... So much for that "only going after the 1%" horsecrap. In fact, so much for magical "only raise taxes on those making over $250,000" line we've heard so many politicians regurgitate.

Logic is cold and hard, like concrete. Logic is social Darwinism that dictates you get what you earn for yourself. Logic doesn't see the sense in throwing money down a hole or in policies which punish productivity while rewarding the absence of the same. Logic rejects purely emotionally based redistribution and recognizes that greater personal risks MUST be paid by greater personal rewards, or there is no benefit to exposing yourself to potential failure.

a reply to: MoonBlossom


People have forgotten what president Kennedy "a democrat" said.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

This is just a symptom of a greater problem. Globalization is creating parity. Jobs have been lost that once lead to a middle class lifestyle in America. To hide this fact the government is employing a quasi-socialism by stealth tactic. In another thread someone had laid out some good points showing how the government is doing everything in its power to discourage people from working either through prolonging school, drug testing(marijuana), incarceration, entitlement programs and subsidies and some others which I cant currently recall. This is to hide the fact that the real jobs are drying up or gone. That there are too many people and not enough jobs to go around.

I spotted the following article the other day and it shows just how bad things are getting here when it is becoming cheaper for the Chinese to produce some goods in America than China.

Why it’s now cheaper to produce some goods in the South than in China

Keer Group, a Chinese yarn-maker, is investing $218 million in a factory in South Carolina. Another Chinese manufacturer, JN Fibers, is investing $45 million in the state. And Indian company called ShriVallabh Pittie is investing $70 million in a yarn-spinning plant in nearby Sylvania, Ga. The changes are happening in other industries and locations, as well: Chinese auto glass maker Fuyao is investing in a $230 million production facility in Ohio, and Chinese acquirers are expanding manufacturing capacity at Cirrus Aviation in Minnesota and Nexteer Automotive in Michigan.

An index created by Boston Consulting shows how much the difference between the cost of manufacturing something in the United States and making the same thing in China has narrowed. In 2004, a good that could be made for a dollar in the United States could be manufactured in China for 86.5 cents. One decade later, that $1 product in the United States would cost 95.6 cents to make in China — not a whole lot of savings.

Americans are still making far more in wages than Chinese manufacturing workers. Adjusted for productivity, Chinese factory workers made $12.47 an hour last year, a little more than half of what American workers made, $22.32 an hour, according to figures from the Boston Consulting Group.

The chart below, from Boston Consulting Group, shows how the competitiveness of manufacturing in China and Russia has changed over the past 10 years. Even when adjusted for productivity, Chinese manufacturing wages have risen by 187 percent over the decade. Industrial electricity costs have grown 66 percent, while natural gas costs are up 138 percent. In the same time frame, U.S. wages have risen only 27 percent, while natural gas costs have fallen 25 percent, according to Boston Consulting.

This is the reality. The entitlement crowd are not the source (not that I am in favor of that mindset) but merely a symptom which is being left to fester by the government. The source began with the shrinking of the US middle class due to off-shoring and automation thanks to increased globalization.

Short of a surge in nationalism possibly combined with war I cant really see how the middle class can grow without some isolationist/protectionist policies that actually encourage growth. That or we need a revolutionary technology to place us on top again but I don't see that happening with the current environment. It would just be outsourced as well.

My grandfather was a democrat and all my life I heard "Get what you can from the government, they owe it to us." I think the current wave is just a progression of this line of thought brought about by an environment that is not suited for middle class growth and what we have are people disenfranchised and finding any way they can to subsidize the burdens in their life. Unfortunately this is going to end up being a case of the snake eating its own tail.

Really? Everyone has equal rights, and is here for a reason, including the majority on earth who are kept in cages, unable to use their talents, as fodder and live in misery, and those in this country who cannot find work, have various issues that make employment difficult and also handicaps. Earning? The land and resources belong equally to everyone and while I don't believe in squatting, there is no reason for a fake system that pushes a minority group on earth into jobs to extort from them. There should be no money because its slavery and slavery violates every law there is. Its an intrinsically system that thinks the young healthy buck, in certain areas counts and all the other people should die or suffer horribly because that young buck thinks he is worthy of everything, he counts, his work matters, even if he's working in a chess game for extremely corrupt companies, while no one can do this, he don't care. He just touts the work or starve, but he doesnt care if the work others do is slave labor for a dozen eggs a week while your kids starve.

NAH. WHO CARES.

I say grow the hell up and that your opinions are weapons that harm others, and that one day you answer to all of the innocent people, men women and children you've harmed on this planet.

I personally believe people need to do a general strike until all the land and seeds of the earth belong equally to all the people without slavery, and they can choose what they want to do. Nothing else has integrity or is even legal.

originally posted by: projectvxn
In the America you describe, which is accurate, this post will be considered "Heartless" and "demeaning to the poor".

My challenge to those that CAN, BUT WON'T DO, is this:

If you have minimum skills...You get minimum pay and benefits.

What are "minimum skills" in a market based economy? You can make millions of dollars by putting a soccer ball in a net. That doesn't even require knowing how to read. However most teachers in actual colleges & universities make crap wages because of the whole "adjunct professor" scam. And someone else can graduate from that college with a bachelor's or master's degree; but if there are no job openings, they won't even be able to make minimum wage.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

The main reason these entitlements have gone so far out of control is that is how the government keeps a relative amount of votes,it fairly obvious the government need the votes to stay in power and what better way than to spoon feed those votes....

People that scam welfare are only a part of the problem and a symptom of a much larger issue...really dude if you want change things go after the actual problem ....You rage is good its just needs to be focused in the right place

a reply to: Unity_99

When you say "strike," does that include rejecting the handouts, the welfare, the government "freebies" that the rest of us pay for? If you're advocating a flat refusal of work to earn your own AND a refusal of being given what your failing to earn for yourself, well... I'd absolutely support anyone who elected to do that. I am all about freedom of choice, and I think that particular choice would show a hell of a lot more personal responsibility than what we're presently mired in.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Totally agree and I've said numerous times that when the "kept mistress/whore" voter base exceeds 50% of the registered voters in America, we are dead. At that point there needs to be a mass emigration away from America much the same as in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged," because any who stay and continue to work are little more than dairy cattle pumping out milk to feed not their own calves, but everyone else's children. Not a tenable situation by any means.

There needs to be a sequel to the movie Idiocracy. Call it "Mendicantocracy" because that's where this nation is headed.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

No arguments from over here,i can tell you though it is quite bizarre watching the U.S fall apart from the other side of the pond,just like watching a slow motion train wreck...

Your right, they didn't offer government phone service 20 years ago. That only started 19 1/2 years ago. And while AOL was popular 20 years ago, internet wasn't a necessity for survival unlike today. Try getting a job today without the internet or a cell phone.

As we learned a few months back when my husband was lost his job a few months back (He is working again) "hitting the pavement" is no longer considered appropriate method of finding work. In fact most employers frown on it it when you walk in with your resume. My husband was consistently met with, "We only take on-line applications."

We are 2 of the few cell phone holdouts left in this world. Its just a good ole trusty landlines for us. I couldn't believe how many times I heard prospective employers leave messages on our answering machine with statements like, "We are interested in your application we have sent you a text with a time and date and location for an interview." Or when my husband would try and follow up on an interview. "We sent you a text requesting a second interview, but you never responded." it didn't occur to anyone that they were dealing with a landline phone not capable of text.

The job market is a different world and has changed rapidly. It is not even the same as it was 3 years ago. So tell me again how the internet is not a necessity for someone on welfare who is trying to find a job, or a better job that would enable them to get off of welfare?

And please don't try and tell me they should.d go to the local library, because even many minimum wage jobs require you to take all kinds of assessments just to apply that take longer the the libraries 1 hour per person limit.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Why do you think the debt is at $18.628 trillion? Obama entered office and the debt was at $10 trillion. He made it increase by 70% since he took office, and he hasn't finished...

The Obama administration is in office to put us in debt and make our former friends enemies, and our enemies make them friends... But the thing is many of these "new friends" are no friends at all. It's a farce. Take for example the relations occurring with Cuba... What makes less sense is that on the one hand Obama wants to make Cuba our friends, yet he labeled the best friend of Cuba as a threat, Venezuela... How does that make ANY SENSE?...

And all the whining and contention comes down to one thing JOBS.


Fact is there are less and less decent jobs these days, less social mobility and in the US case economic stagnation.

This results in highly qualified people and former professionals who have lost good jobs stuck in entry level jobs that dont pay enough that in a healthy economy they should be way past.

The solution?

Fix the economy, make sure there is plenty of middle class jobs.

That will stop the whinging from all but the most lazy.

A economicly healthy country with plenty of social mobility is a happy country.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Why do you think the debt is at $18.628 trillion? Obama entered office and the debt was at $10 trillion. He made it increase by 70% since he took office, and he hasn't finished...

The Obama administration is in office to put us in debt and make our former friends enemies, and our enemies make them friends... But the thing is many of these "new friends" are no friends at all. It's a farce. Take for example the relations occurring with Cuba... What makes less sense is that on the one hand Obama wants to make Cuba our friends, yet he labeled the best friend of Cuba as a threat, Venezuela... How does that make ANY SENSE?...

Because he's not making Cuba a allie or even a friend. Just opening a embassy and establishing formal diplomatic relations.

UK has formal diplomatic relations with cuba but we are not exactly friends and sure as hell are not allies with them.


Save your chickenhawk crying for if the US signs a defence pact with them or trys s to sell them weapons then I might share your selective outrage.