Originally posted by Bearmaw7
I somehow knew that you would say you had read the Bible. Everyone says they have,
No.. you said "I can tell you haven't read it." Oh I see.. you think I may've exagerated just to be tit for tat? I was raised on the bible.. I
went to Christian schools and have fundies in my family. I already KNOW the religion.
It would seem to be a lie to me if you had not said you felt SHAME, that rang true.
The shame I was taught were things like women are inherently evil because of Eve. That is disgraceful. Of course I knew it wasn't true.. and I've
ALWAYS believed in evolution anyway but I did realise that some of this brainwashing had rubbed of subconciously. It also teached that pride is
evil.. so If you do something you are proud of.. you should be ashamed?
And self induced suffering is a GOOD thing. These are just a couple of
examples. I won't bother giving anymore as you wouldn't be able to undertstand how people are able to interprit the bible any other way than the way
We need to feel shame and sorrow..it drives us to know for sure we are guilty in the eyes of a HOLY GOD.
If I have harmed someone my conscience tells me.. I will go and rectify it with that person.. considering I don't believe in your god..
[predominently for science reasons] guilt in his eyes is irrelevant. All that is relevent is the person I have wronged and how they see me.. and how I
The Good news is this:
once we see our shame and guilt we also (by the Spirit ) understand that the sin has been paid for,
As I said if I've hurt somone.. I make peace with them.. this is better than going to confesson instead
of righting things and respecting
other human beings.
covered and we can be filled with joy unspeakable..the gift of salvation.
I believe we should save [nurture] eachother.. and I'm not after some holy reward after I'm dead... it is life that matters to me.. I believe that
is all there is... and if it wasn't.. I'd still say it's irrelevant. It is the here and now that counts.
My prayer is that you will ask for this gift and experience the freedom and joy of HIM who died for your shame..
I don't have irrational shame now. . and I feel freedom and joy already. My hope for you is you gain some objectivety, be less judgemental.. and see
the the universe the way it is.. and not the way a book tells you how t see it. By blindly believing what the bible tells you.. you miss out on the
truth/reality of oor world. It's a beautiful place in itself.. it doesn't need the bible to validate it.
Riley;Jesus is all He claims to be...and more. In 26 years of serving HIM I have never been given reason to regret my decision to follow with
all my heart.
I've taken alot of his philosophies on board.. as with other great philosophers. He and Buddha seem to have shared similar outlooks. I can imagine
them having a peace pipe together. But I don't serve either.. I love the world that I am in and want to add not detract from it. Jesus said it is the
MESSAGE that is important not the messagenger. I think.. hyperthetically.. he would rather people feel
the need to be good to eachother rather
than just doing so because 'he's the boss'.
I make choices.. I try and make the choices that will not cause suffering.. to myself or to others. Whats wrong with me doing this without following a
god I can't believe in? There are are no rules that says you have to believe in god to be a good person.
When I look at the night sky my heart fills with praise to my Lord and my God, the creator of Heaven and Earth...
See.. many do not believe this.. and there is alot of evidence that it's not true. That aside.. you talk about worshiping a creator.. but I think a
creator would rather us respect ourselves.. and not fight over 'him' [allah vs yaweh]. Hypathetically.. I think it would rather us believe in
Just because the West does claim to be "Christian" and the West does have the wealth to spend on pleasures..it doesn't immediatly follow that
Western men, who go to church, buy and murder children put for sale by their own society.
Alot of these families sell their daughters because they are in DEBT to pay for things.. like.. I don't know FOOD and SHELTER. The daughters are
usually TAKEN to pay the debt. It is a sick practice I agree.. but I can't judge POOR cultures because their choices are limited.
As for Western men who go on sex holidays [and some would call themselves 'christian'].., it is these men that are creating a demand for
No. this doesnt happen in every part of the world..I assure you. It is the product of lawlessness.
People do what they have to do to survive when they are living in poverty. It's also a big problem in Russia and many other countries... it happens
in America.. in Australia. Women are locked in rooms here [and everywhere] and hoard to pay their debts to whoever smuggled them into the 'free'
country. They were looking for a better life. Many western women have to stip or prostitute to feed their kids because the fathers have taken off.
There are many girls in western countries who's fathers, step fathers, uncles, brothers molest them.. they get used for sex by their own families..
the difference is it's not in open air brothels for all the cameras of the world to see. Something like 1 in 4 apprently.. no.. Christian nations are
no different.. they just do it behind closed doors instead.
In India, for instance, if a man is displeased with his wife he can cause a" kitchen fire" .
This is the practice of dumping kerocene on her. He, and as many relations as it takes to hold her still ...then they set her on fire . In the papers
it is called a "kitchen fire". She dies and no one investigates, after all, she died in the kitchen , right ? Everyone knows fires break out in the
kitchen. No problem..
That happens sometimes in the middle east as well. If a father denies someone his daughters hand in marriage.. [they are usually about 12 at the time]
they have petrol poured over them to di$figure them so they have no more value and can't marry anyone else. Christianity used to have love honour and
OBEY as well.. women were considered property and raping a wife used to be quite legal.. as was assaukting her. Christianity grew out of it and
evolved.. [as it had to obide by the laws] other religions haven't grown out of it yet.
The West is not HOLY but the influence of Christ is remarkable.
Thats probably the all mighty $ that provides fairly decent lifestyles.. I can't say the same for westerners living beneath the poverty line though.
When the Holy Spirit is grieved enough with the West we too, shall fall. I believe the thing to look for would be the persecution of Christians
as a benchmark for HIS judgement.
Some Christians like to believe this.. but it seems to be it's usually after they have tried to FORCE other people to convert that they claim to have
Look at China abortion is the only option after having one child. This is the fruit of a Buddist society.
What?! Another biggoted statement. You can't help yourself can you? the one child policy is the result of an OVERPOPULATED
society.. it has
to do with buddhism. This would be obvious to most people.
"You shall know them by their friuts" In the United States there is
still enough salt and light that a fight is waged against baby murders...and you can thank God for the Christians who pray and fight the good fight
I do find the practice of forced abortion in China apporhent.. I can't JUDGE anyone else for choosing it though as I am not living their lives.. and
if I'm not willing to raise or help raise their unwanted children myself to ensure they have the basics.. [which would be things like education and
not a one off hamper with nappies and talcem powder in it] I'm not going to try force women to continue pregnancies and then just walk away when
they've given birth as some prolifers do. Thats dispicable. Seems there is a time limit on their compassion for these babies.
[edit on 3-1-2005 by riley]