5th Planned Parenthood Video Released

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: butcherguy

What is yours, if you don't mind my asking?

I've posted mine, several times. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Forgive me, but I am having trouble understanding where you draw the line for late term, from the post that you linked.

Perhaps defining terms would help?

Studies and estimates show that "Late term" abortions represent between .08% - 1.4% of abortions.

When is it permitted?

As of December 2014, forty-two states had bans on late-term abortions that were not facially unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade (i.e. banning all abortions) or enjoined by court order.[20] In addition, the Supreme Court in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart ruled that Congress may ban certain late-term abortion techniques, "both previability and postviability".

Eighteen states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 22 weeks from the last menstrual period).

Ten states (although Florida's enforcement of such laws are under permanent injunction) require a second physician to approve

Thirteen states have laws that require a second physician to be present during late-term abortion procedures in order to treat a fetus if born alive.

The Supreme Court has held that bans must include exceptions for threats to the woman's life, physical health, and mental health, but four states allow late-term abortions only when the woman's life is at risk; four allow them when the woman's life or physical health is at risk, but use a definition of health that pro-choice organizations believe is impermissibly narrow.

en.wikipedia.org...

I gave the member my cut-off line of 26 weeks.
I was looking for theirs.
That is all.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

so true, that it isn't even funny. it's just sad and pathetic.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: butcherguy

What is yours, if you don't mind my asking?

I've posted mine, several times. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Forgive me, but I am having trouble understanding where you draw the line for late term, from the post that you linked.

Perhaps defining terms would help?

Studies and estimates show that "Late term" abortions represent between .08% - 1.4% of abortions.

When is it permitted?

As of December 2014, forty-two states had bans on late-term abortions that were not facially unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade (i.e. banning all abortions) or enjoined by court order.[20] In addition, the Supreme Court in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart ruled that Congress may ban certain late-term abortion techniques, "both previability and postviability".

Eighteen states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 22 weeks from the last menstrual period).

Ten states (although Florida's enforcement of such laws are under permanent injunction) require a second physician to approve

Thirteen states have laws that require a second physician to be present during late-term abortion procedures in order to treat a fetus if born alive.

The Supreme Court has held that bans must include exceptions for threats to the woman's life, physical health, and mental health, but four states allow late-term abortions only when the woman's life is at risk; four allow them when the woman's life or physical health is at risk, but use a definition of health that pro-choice organizations believe is impermissibly narrow.

en.wikipedia.org...

I gave the member my cut-off line of 26 weeks.
I was looking for theirs.
That is all.

Mine is 24 weeks because of the technology now available
that allows a decent number babies born that early
to survive and to go on to live productive lives.

" a groundbreaking study called EPICure recorded all births
in the UK between 20 and 25 weeks, six days.
Out of 4,001 births, the first EPICure study
(another study took place in 2006 and the latest,
following the original children, now aged 19, is due to be finished next year)
found that 311 babies survived and were eventually discharged, including two babies born at 22 weeks, six at 23 weeks, 100 at 24 weeks and 186 babies at 25 " ...‘The smallest baby I ever treated was called Jessica and she weighed 460g [1lb] at birth,’ Dr Smith says. ‘This baby was born and, actually, she had good lung function, probably because of the stress of the birth – stress produces steroids that have a lung-maturing effect on a baby. But the day after the birth her bowel had perforated; that’s quite a common problem with premature babies. She went into surgery and the surgeons took out a big lump of colon that had infarcted... But she came through and did well – I’ve got a photograph of a very happy-looking toddler.’

...Babies born at 24 weeks are, he says, capable of living independent lives.
‘The outcome is often more successful than neurosurgeon treatment
for brain tumours in adults or stroke treatment,
but somehow people weigh them up in a different way.’

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Survival rates for babies born at 24 weeks and beyond:
24 weeks 39%
25 weeks 50%
26 weeks 80%
27 weeks 90%
28-31 weeks 90-95%
32-33 weeks 95%
miscarriage.about.com...


The person who said late term abortion
is incredibly rare is correct
the around 1% of all abortions is correct
the Guttmacher institute which is pro abortion
gives these stats
out of the over 1 Million abortions per year
slightly more than 1% are late term,
so conservatively,
that is around 9, 000
Nine Thousand late term abortions
per year.
Very very rare.

I know I have repeated this many times
but the rarity of NINE THOUSAND
per year has yet to sink in with many
on this thread.

Since the pro-abortionists on this site
repeat their same old tired arguments
over and over and over,
I'll do the same with my arguments.
Especially emphasizing the RARITY
of NINE THOUSAND (9,000)
late term abortions per year in the US.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Solving one social issue begets murder as the solution for the other.

My history taught me to despise those who offered solutions involving murder because it always led to the mass type solutions.

I would like ATS readers to sit up and take particular notice of the heritage of the woman depicted in this cartoon because it should evoke serious questions as to what group is targeted by PP and its supporters.

The majority of patients who had second-trimester abortions indicated they would have preferred to have them earlier, the researchers reported. While later abortions are unlikely to be eliminated — for example in cases where women find out about fetal anomalies late in the pregnancy — they could be reduced, Jone said.

"Prior research has found that things like finding an abortion provider, making arrangements and tracking down the money are barriers," she said. "If we remove these barriers to first-trimester abortion services, this could potentially decrease the need for second-trimester abortion services."
Study Reveals Who Gets Late-Term Abortions
www.livescience.com...

It seems to me that there are ways to reduce those late term abortions, unfortunately, the republican party and pro-life movement, unable to get what they want, a total ban, are settling for getting what they can get, which is in essence turning more first trimester abortions into late term.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: butcherguy

What is yours, if you don't mind my asking?

I've posted mine, several times. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Forgive me, but I am having trouble understanding where you draw the line for late term, from the post that you linked.

Perhaps defining terms would help?

Studies and estimates show that "Late term" abortions represent between .08% - 1.4% of abortions.

When is it permitted?

As of December 2014, forty-two states had bans on late-term abortions that were not facially unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade (i.e. banning all abortions) or enjoined by court order.[20] In addition, the Supreme Court in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart ruled that Congress may ban certain late-term abortion techniques, "both previability and postviability".

Eighteen states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 22 weeks from the last menstrual period).

Ten states (although Florida's enforcement of such laws are under permanent injunction) require a second physician to approve

Thirteen states have laws that require a second physician to be present during late-term abortion procedures in order to treat a fetus if born alive.

The Supreme Court has held that bans must include exceptions for threats to the woman's life, physical health, and mental health, but four states allow late-term abortions only when the woman's life is at risk; four allow them when the woman's life or physical health is at risk, but use a definition of health that pro-choice organizations believe is impermissibly narrow.

en.wikipedia.org...

I gave the member my cut-off line of 26 weeks.
I was looking for theirs.
That is all.

Mine is 22 weeks absent a compelling argument. I am "pro-life" and "pro-choice". I am not convinced that life exists prior to the second trimester. I base this on the miscarriage rate aka spontaneous abortions aka abortions by nature/god..moving from 75% in the first couple weeks to less than 1% after the 22 week mark...to actually putting the mothers life at risk at time of delivery. IMO it speaks to Nature/God weighing in on when life begins.

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Solving one social issue begets murder as the solution for the other.

My history taught me to despise those who offered solutions involving murder because it always led to the mass type solutions.

It was a commentary on the hypocrisy of the conservative right wing. Not murder as a solution.

Your premise is false in that sperm+egg equals murder victim.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I bet more than 9,000 innocent civilians are killed each year by accidental collateral damage from our military. Directly or indirectly.

Kids, women -- all of whom just happened be next to the wrong building, in the wrong car or on the wrong street.

Murder is murder and you can't pick and chose who's lives matter more. If you think abortion is murder then you should be outraged about the people being killed by our government through collateral damage.

And that is a lot more directly funded by YOUR taxpayer dollars.

a reply to: Phoenix

I would like ATS readers to sit up and take particular notice of the heritage of the woman depicted in this cartoon because it should evoke serious questions as to what group is targeted by PP and its supporters.

What heritage is that? She appears to be a dark-haired white woman.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: butcherguy

I have heard a woman say that the reason that she did it was that she could not bear the thought of having 'that man's' child inside of her after they broke up.

Late term abortion aren't performed because the woman is mad the her "baby daddy", at least not here in USA. Check your sources, and then come back with your protest of man hating women.

I heard that directly from a woman that had a very late term abortion. Her health was affected by the mental stress of carrying a child that she did not want, at least that is what she told me.

Anecdotal....and not useful to the discussion for endless reasons that a singular anecdote from an anonymous poster retelling someone else's purported story etc.

Questioning the utility of such claims, not your honesty.

It is anecdotal.
The member said that it doesn't happen in the US.
I am from the US and I personally know a woman that had one for that reason, according to her. I don't know why she would lie about it.

originally posted by: Phoenix
I would like ATS readers to sit up and take particular notice of the heritage of the woman depicted in this cartoon because it should evoke serious questions as to what group is targeted by PP and its supporters.

What heritage is she? She looks like all the rest of the people in the cartoon... What are you seeing that I'm not?

originally posted by: jimmyx

so true, that it isn't even funny. it's just sad and pathetic.

Seriously... Just look how the pro-life crowd keeps trying to change this discussion into a discussion on the morality of abortion instead of if PP violated any laws or not. Abortion is already legal, these videos are about if Planned Parenthood violated any laws or not with abortions ALREADY performed. The morality of abortion is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

originally posted by: Phoenix

I would like ATS readers to sit up and take particular notice of the heritage of the woman depicted in this cartoon because it should evoke serious questions as to what group is targeted by PP and its supporters.

Especially because the lady more resembles a Grandmother than a Mother.

Hmmm.

originally posted by: [post=19661270]Phoenix

I would like ATS readers to sit up and take particular notice of the heritage of the woman depicted in this cartoon because it should evoke serious questions as to what group is targeted by PP and its supporters.

AND...I would like ATS readers "to sit up and take particular notice " of how this poster failed to notice that everyone in this image had their skin tone colored with the same pencil and color...and yet you somehow saw white people and a minority?

Take a careful look and reflect on that and then maybe take a step down from your painfully hypocritical and unjustified soap box.

originally posted by: Phoenix
I would like ATS readers to sit up and take particular notice of the heritage of the woman depicted in this cartoon because it should evoke serious questions as to what group is targeted by PP and its supporters.

I think you should take notice of the hypocrisy being mocked in that satirical comic strip that is on display from the people on your side of the argument.

Though it's rather interesting that instead of getting the point of the strip, you try to bring race into the mix and try to flip the discussion back around.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

I bet more than 9,000 innocent civilians are killed each year by accidental collateral damage from our military. Directly or indirectly.

2 rongs don't make a wright.

All killing needs to be addressed.

All killing.

a reply to: Indigo5

Exactly. I think people are reading way too much into this cartoon. The message is CLEAR. No need to try to figure out the age or race of the woman, as it doesn't matter.

But the guy in the blue suit DOES resemble Donald Trump...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: grandmakdw

I bet more than 9,000 innocent civilians are killed each year by accidental collateral damage from our military. Directly or indirectly.

Kids, women -- all of whom just happened be next to the wrong building, in the wrong car or on the wrong street.

Murder is murder and you can't pick and chose who's lives matter more. If you think abortion is murder then you should be outraged about the people being killed by our government through collateral damage.

And that is a lot more directly funded by YOUR taxpayer dollars.

I am strongly opposed to the military being held hostage in a protracted war that has been all but ignored by the media, and even the President. I am strongly opposed to having troops in the Middle East for any reason. So yes I am as outraged by that as I am by late term abortion.

President Obama promised to take the troops out the middle east, he lied, straight up and now our soldiers and civilians are paying the price for his lies. But that is off topic, but since you as Mod brought it up, I think it appropriate to comment here.

Yes I find this killing to be as abhorrent as killing babies over 24 weeks, killing on average 9,000 of them per year in the US.

Why would you assume otherwise? Just because I am conservative politically and socially, doesn't mean I support having troops in the middle east. I don't, not at all, and think the US should not be involved in the Middle East, let them take care of their little ISIS problem themselves. Infidels have no reason to be involved, and only make matters worse the more infidels interfere in any way shape or form. I honestly think we should make it illegal for all US citizens to go into any country where ISIS is supported by the government or has majority control of the country.

I find it interesting that you project my abhorrence of late term abortion into
me supporting something like troops in the ME. Haven't you learned
what happens when you assume something about someone?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your premise is false in that sperm+egg equals murder victim.

That statement rests on belief, not scientific fact and is nothing but opinion.

The only reason supporters don't want to call it what it is - murder, is to avoid moral consequences of their belief system. Me, I'll call it what it is and forget the made up polite terms for mass murder.