Why do most religions tell people to deny themselves (slavery/New World Order propaganda)?

a reply to: arpgme

No it explicitly says not to indulge in things that excite the senses.

It doesn't say to reject life completely though. It just says that you should only take what you need from the world in order to live a full and happy life. But it also points out that in order to realize your full spiritual potential you have to put others before yourself.

That's what it says in all religions, because its the truth, that's any mind can logically examine and investigate in their own lives to realizem it themselves. It's not a dogma to just passively accept. It's a spiritual practise.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, but he doesn't reapect the free-will of the person he rapes, so he's an enemy of Freedom like the gods of slavery most people worship.

You're deliberately evading my points. Should we allow rapists, pedophiles, serial killers, abusive boyfriends, child abusers, poachers, con men, thieves, bullies, war profiteers, cartels, pimps, armed militants, neo-Nazis, and child sex rings to pursue what makes them happy too?

a reply to: enlightenedservant


I already answered your question, you're just not paying attention:

People should do what they want and let others do what they want, a respect for free-will. Rapists and thieves do not care about other people's free-will.

Everyone's free-will should be respected. No one should be raped.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

That's not even thepoint. The point of renouncing all selfishness and pleasure seeking is that ultimately it doesn't make anyone happy.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You don't like free-will and serve an anti-life and anti-freedom god, so you try to scare people away from free-will by bringing up things like rapists, even though rapists have no respect for free-will, either. You're all on the same team.

a reply to: arpgme

Abuse of free will is the very reason prophets, gurus and wise people started religion in the first place. They all accept free will but they point out the natural laws that determine the results of certain behaviours good and bad, and seek to guide humanity away from actions that lead to suffering.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: enlightenedservant
You're all on the same team.

Don't quit your meds.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

A guy says free-will (doing what you want) is bad
Accuses my belief of supporting rapists and killers
No one says anything about that

I tell him rapists don't respect free-will, either (those they raped)
I accuse him of the same thing he accused me of
I'm called crazy by others ("don't quit your meds")

Hypocrisy

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: enlightenedservant


I already answered your question, you're just not paying attention:

People should do what they want and let others do what they want, a respect for free-will. Rapists and thieves do not care about other people's free-will.

Everyone's free-will should be respected. No one should be raped.

I just want you to be clear. So you don't mind pedophiles, serial killers, abusive boyfriends, child abusers, poachers, con men, bullies, war profiteers, cartels, pimps, armed militants, neo-Nazis, and child sex rings being free to do those things?

Because it's literally impossible for everyone's free will to be respected when these categories of people are doing what makes them happy.

a reply to: arpgme

Another way at looking at this is that this deny yourself attitude is spiritually universal. It is a fundamental weakness in us humans to be very pleasure seeking, too pleasure seeking and this has bad consequences on ourselves and others. Perhaps it is a response to a fundamental flaw and our collective attempts to temper it.

Even Plato was analysing this way back when, the Platonic ideal is autarkia, that is to say, self-control and self-sufficiency.

We all have to deny certain impulses coming from our desires. The human experience has taught us by example what becomes of unchecked self gratification. Still, we are having grave moral problems dealing with our darker side.

I am sure at times the deny yourself ethic has been used to control, but I would not go as far as saying that the religious disciplines are agents of the NWO.

With freedom comes great responsibility. That is self control, not by any institution or holy man, but by the self. With all the instruction that say Christ gave He still can not flick the switch for us. That is up to us. We each have a mind and body that is put under our will. How we use that is up to us ultimately.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: nonjudgementalist

A guy says free-will (doing what you want) is bad
Accuses my belief of supporting rapists and killers
No one says anything about that

I tell him rapists don't respect free-will, either (those they raped)
I accuse him of the same thing he accused me of
I'm called crazy by others ("don't quit your meds")

Hypocrisy

You complained in the OP about religions, saying "why don't they teach people to follow their happiness?" I countered by saying:

What you seem to naively overlook is that many people get pleasure out of harming others. Is it really a good idea to persuade rapists to follow their happiness? Or pedophiles? Or serial killers? Or abusive boyfriends, child abusers, poachers, con men, thieves, bullies, war profiteers? Should we encourage cartels, pimps, armed militants, neo-Nazis, and child sex rings to focus on their happiness, too?

These aren't scare tactics, these are reality. Something like 1 in every 6 women has been raped or will be raped. They're not being raped by trees or imaginary ghosts. They're being raped by real people who apparently get pleasure from forcing themselves onto other people.

For the record, this is why so many people are against you anti-religious types. You speak of things in theory but can never defend those theories when they're actually put into action. EDIT: Also, because the world would be a much worse place if people actually followed their every desire.

So should drunk drivers be allowed to follow their pleasure of driving while under the influence of alcohol, too?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I just want you to be clear. So you don't mind pedophiles...

Are you serious? How much more clear can I be (quote from what I said earlier):

Everyone's free-will should be respected. No one should be raped.

So, they do not respect free-will either. Abusers and killers are enemies of Freedom.

You choose to act like you don't understand to support your anti-life/anti-freewill beliefs.

Harming others, killing, raping, and stealing are all forms of not caring about other's free-will.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I just want you to be clear. So you don't mind pedophiles...

Are you serious? How much more clear can I be (quote from what I said earlier):

Everyone's free-will should be respected. No one should be raped.

You choose to act like you don't understand to support your anti-life/anti-freewill beliefs.

Harming others, killing, raping, and stealing are all forms of not caring about other's free-will.

The fact that you keep ignoring everything else I say proves my point. In theory, you claim you want people to follow their pleasures & free will. But in reality, you don't want people to follow their own freedom & free will because it often infringes on others. You can't have it both ways. You complain about religion & preach that we shouldn't infringe on the free will of others. How is that freedom?

Also, you might want to get something clear. Pedophilia is not the same thing as "child rape". Pedophilia is simply the sexual attraction to children. A person is a pedophile whether they touch a child or not. I asked you that specifically because child porn (which can be any image of a naked child) is counted as pedophilia, even if the viewer has nothing to do with the child. A child molester is a pedophile that actually acts on their desires. Or as you would say, actually pursues their pleasure.

And remember, statutory rape is simply sex with an underage person. And child molesting is simply touching a child in a sexual manner. That includes cases when the child is willing. That's exactly why I asked you these. Because a person can be a pedophile, a child molester, and a (statutory) rapist without ever infringing on someone else's free will. So do you think it's ok for them to pursue their own pleasure or not?

EDIT: And you never answered me. Should drunk drivers be allowed to follow their pleasure of driving while under the influence of alcohol, too?

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: nonjudgementalist

A guy says free-will (doing what you want) is bad
Accuses my belief of supporting rapists and killers
No one says anything about that

I tell him rapists don't respect free-will, either (those they raped)
I accuse him of the same thing he accused me of
I'm called crazy by others ("don't quit your meds")

Hypocrisy

You can't even defend your own position. If people are allowed to "do what they want", there will be many people who will kill. You keep ducking this fact because it proves how ridiculous your position is.

You: Do what you want!!!
Person A: What if I want to kill you?
You: No, that infringes on my free will.
Person B: What if I want to rape Person A?
You: No that infringes on Person A's free will.
Person C: What if I want to take Person B's possessions?
You: No, that infringes on Person B's free will.
Persons A, B, & C: So what make your beliefs any different from religions that tell me not to do those things either?
You: Uhh! You just don't get it!

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You: Do what you want!!!
Person A: What if I want to kill you?
You: No, that infringes on my free will.
Person B: What if I want to rape Person A?
You: No that infringes on Person A's free will.
Person C: What if I want to take Person B's possessions?
You: No, that infringes on Person B's free will.
Persons A, B, & C: So what make your beliefs any different from religions that tell me not to do those things either?
You: Uhh! You just don't get it!

The difference is religion also says not to party, drink, want more material goods, etc. Having fun is natural. The only thing we should do is respect each other's free-will, everything else is too much control. Religion makes up many unecesary rules.

You keep asking me questions and I keep answering. This is supposed to be an actual conversation, not ask me a million questions while I just answer. I'm done answering your repetitive questions.

If you don't get it by now, you never will.

You continuously distract and hide the fact that religion has many rules, unrelated to respecting other's free-will and that you don't respect free-will. You even call yourself "servant of the king". You are not about being Spiritually Self-Empowered.

:dn

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: enlightenedservant

You: Do what you want!!!
Person A: What if I want to kill you?
You: No, that infringes on my free will.
Person B: What if I want to rape Person A?
You: No that infringes on Person A's free will.
Person C: What if I want to take Person B's possessions?
You: No, that infringes on Person B's free will.
Persons A, B, & C: So what make your beliefs any different from religions that tell me not to do those things either?
You: Uhh! You just don't get it!

The difference is religion also says not to party, drink, want more material goods, etc. Having fun is natural. The only thing we should do is respect each other's free-will, everything else is too much control. Religion makes up many unecesary rules.

You keep asking me questions and I keep answering. This is supposed to be an actual conversation, not ask me a million questions while I just answer. I'm done answering your repetitive questions.

If you don't get it by now, you never will.

You continuously distract and hide the fact that religion has many rules, unrelated to respecting other's free-will and that you don't respect free-will. You even call yourself "servant of the king". You are not about being Spiritually Self-Empowered.

:dn

Apparently your beliefs also have many rules unrelated to respecting other's free-will and you don't respect free-will, either. Because if you actually respected free will, you'll sit back & let people be free to do as they will. Even if that includes fighting, bullying, persecuting, stealing, killing, pimping, raping, etc. These are all real actions that take place every day by people who are doing what makes them happy. But somehow you don't see the contradiction.

And in my first post, I said you'd have to be specific which denomination or scripture you're talking about. There are religions that allow dancing, drinking, and other forms of having fun. And the prosperity gospel, many beliefs in Judaism, and actually many other denominations have no problem with owning material goods, either. But you're the one trying to lump all religions together & project your false narrative on all of us.

Also, there's a saying that "silence signals compliance". Since you won't just admit it, I'll assume you think people should be allowed to drink while drunk, as long as they're happy & feel free while they're doing it.

a reply to: arpgme

It is easy to make a verse this or that when taken out of context.

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”[a]

4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Notice the establishment of reciprocity here? This is the same problem people have with the infamous obedient wife verse. The very next part of the passage talks about how the husband should treat her as Christ would. Would it be so bad to obey one who truly treated you as Christ would? This is the same idea. Treat each other with the same respect you would honor the Lord with.

Understand that slavery was a facet of the society at the time and different than the version we were taught.

Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.



22
“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,”[f] but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

The second passage when expanded tells Christians how to endure as a minority in a pagan society that does not operate by the same rules they do. It tells them to endure and still operate by the rules Christ expects of them; the same rules He operated by. His example. After all, Christ was SUCH a party animal ...

“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

The third explains why you are to treat your body with honor and not defile it with sexual immorality and rampant partying. It is a temple in and of itself. As a Christian who is properly born again, you house the Holy Spirit much like the ancient Jewish Temples housed the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies. Is it proper for you to take a sacred place and use it for impropriety?

No. It's not. So you honor your body as it houses the Holy Spirit.

And I have plenty of fun. I just don't try to destroy myself with Friday and Saturday night drunken benders. Never saw the point frankly.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

And the prosperity gospel, many beliefs in Judaism, and actually many other denominations have no problem with owning material goods, either. But you're the one trying to lump all religions together & project your false narrative on all of us.

That's a lie. I said, "Why do most religions tell people to deny themselves". I never accused all religions and religious sects of doing this.

And most religious people (the majority) are against The Prosperity Gospel, which is still consistant with what I said about most religions/sects (not all).

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: enlightenedservant

And the prosperity gospel, many beliefs in Judaism, and actually many other denominations have no problem with owning material goods, either. But you're the one trying to lump all religions together & project your false narrative on all of us.

That's a lie. I said, "Why do most religions tell people to deny themselves". I never accused all religions and religious sects of doing this.

And most religious people (the majority) are against The Prosperity Gospel, which is still consistant with what I said about most religions/sects (not all).

To be fair, you're right. You did say "most" & "many", not "all". And you're correct that there are some religions that don't tell people to deny themselves; such as the Church of Satan, Satanism, and Hedonism. They agree with you so of course I shouldn't have included them. I mentioned them in my very first post in this thread but you ignored that.

However, here's the first paragraph from your OP:

Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, even many forms of Hinduism and Taoism teaches people to deny themselves. If religions are against slavery and global control, then why don't they teach people to follow their happiness?

I've asked you several times to be specific on which denomination & which scriptures you're referring to. The groups you mentioned in the first sentence in your OP cover almost all of the people on Earth.

Also, why won't you address the simple contradiction I keep bringing up? You keep deflecting from it & tip toeing around it, but never address it. You claim you're in favor of free will, freedom, and pursuing one's sense of pleasure while talking condescendingly about religions for supposedly denying people these things. Yet you simultaneously say that people have to respect the free will of others & can't rape, kill, or steal. That doesn't make sense.

The very reason those things exist in the first place is because some people find pleasure in doing them & want to be free to do them. The same goes with drunk driving, arson, and all of the other things I repeatedly listed. It's impossible to preach freedom while also preaching limits to that freedom, because freedom with limits isn't freedom at all. You complain about religions putting limits on people's free will but not about your own belief-imposed limits on free will.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I already explained the difference between religious which says not to kill and not killing to respect free-will

The difference is religion also says not to party, drink, want more material goods, etc. Having fun is natural. The only thing we should do is respect each other's free-will, everything else is too much control.[b[ Religion makes up many unecesary rules.

Which denominations of Christianity, for example? The common denominations. Most Christians don't follow The Prosperity Gospel.