If Someone Proved one point Would Accept the rest?

a reply to: Informer1958

I would like to remind you, people who blame their government of doing a False Flag, are not "anti-government" yet you lump anyone who does not support your theories. It is a false assumptions.

There was not a 9/11 False Flag. Had it been, people would have been in prison by now. It didn't take long before members of Nixon's team were jailed over Watergate and yet we are being led to believe that 9/11 was a False Flag operation. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I believe few people in our government may have been involved in the 911 conspiracies considering all the secrets concerning 911. However, I am not "anti-government" . I believe many people who do real research into 911 and do not support the OS should not be label "anti-government". This is yet another attempt to discrete anyone who does not go alone with the order of how the powers that be want.

Please explain in detail, for what reason why the government would do such a thing. Keeping in mind that I am a retired government employee.

See Informer1958, you are anti government because people were arrested for Watergate. Just because your post was to show how making sweeping generalizations is incorrect and ignorant, people were arrested for Watergate therefore you're anti government. Don't worry skyeagle409 I already told him.

And Informer1958, since your post was to point out that labeling an entire group of people based on just a couple of them is wrong, you should therefore be able to know what is exactly going on in someone's mind who you have never met. It's so obvious that because you have questions about some things that you should be able to tell us exactly what people you are possibly completely unaware of are thinking.

And keep in mind you are talking to a retired government employee. So he knows exactly what everyone in the government is doing at all times. And being a retired government employee clearly means he is much more of an expert than you on anything government related.


Better edit to add ... /sarcasm

a reply to: skyeagle409

Let' me put it this way. I have noticed the CT folks posting bogus and hoaxed videos and disinformation that were debunked years ago.

So now your saying every video and most of ATS members that are debating you about everything concerning 911 are mostly hoaxes and we are all spreading disinformation.

I have watch your postings on this thread and the thread of WTC 7 and you have not agree with any poster on any of their presentations.

You accuse all of us repeatedly of posting hoaxes and spreading disinformation to counter our evidence without proving that we are spreading disinformation. You never proves any of the videos hoaxes.

You say they where debunked years ago, yet you show no evidence to support your claims.

It so easy to just ignore everyone's videos that do not support the OS narratives by making false claims against them. As a ATS casual I have spotted this in may of your posts.

The belittling and ridiculing is beyond disbelief.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if debris are outpacing the collapse of a building, that particular building is NOT collapsing at free fall speed. Common sense logic, yet the CT folks continue to push a dead horse that was beaten to death years ago.

It doesn't take a six graders to watch all these videos of the WTC collapsing to see with "honest eyes" that the debris are not only outpacing the collapse they are being blasted in every direction up to 500 feet. Any idiot knows that can not happen with a building falling naturally.

It is very clear here, in my opinion that you are pushing a false narrative and want people to tell themselves that their eyes are lying to them when viewing these videos.

You continue to use the word: Common sense & logic as if everyone that has an opinion or presents evidence is stupid. On the contrary it is you that is kicking the same old dead horse, by pushing the same old regurgitated impossible narratives.

You repeat over and over that you have warned everyone that we all are spreading disinformation and hoaxes videos. Yet you do not prove those allegation.

I have long be aware of a campaign to discredit the Truth Movement, but it appears that my warnings are falling of deaf ears, which is why I am amazed at times when I see them post the very videos and photos that I have been warning them about.Case in point, pictures of seismic charts they claim proves demolition explosions at ground zero. With that, I will simply say this: I dare them to take that same seismic data and present it to demolition companies.

And you repeated it again. NO demolition companies will ever make a comment concerning any seismic charts concerning 911. They are not going to speak out against the official OS by risking loosing their government contracts and everyone knows that. So you are being silly here.

Not everything we present is fake, hoax, or disinformation. Sure you can hand wave and call everything we present to you hoaxes, and skirt our questions and put yourself on a petal stool claiming to be an expert in just about everything we present to you.

You remind me of an old member on ATS name Reheat, that I used to have the same encounter with. By no means I am saying you are Reheat, I don't think you are. Your personality is much different, however you both defend the OS the same way.

Just my thoughts.

a reply to: Informer1958

Let me put it this way; I have asked the opposition to point out the time lines in the WTC 7 video where demolition explosions can be heard and they have failed to do so.

They are not going to speak out against the official OS by risking loosing their government contracts and everyone knows that. So you are being silly here.

It is silly to think that they would risk government contracts to keep quiet. The is absurd to say the least because the evidence does not remain quiet.

Now, the challenge for you is to prove a government 9/11 cover-up and provide the evidence. Short of that, I will make another case against the 9/11 CT folks.

a reply to: Informer1958

So now your saying every video and most of ATS members that are debating you about everything concerning 911 are mostly hoaxes and we are all spreading disinformation.

That's correct. For an example, they continue to insist that the WTC buildings collapsed at free fall speed, but photos and videos proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that those building did not fall at free fall speed, which is evident by the fact that debris from the building are striking the ground while the collapse of the building is still in progress many stories above?

Question is; why do they continue to insist the WTC buildings fell at free fall speed when it has been proven with video evidence that no such thing occurred?

That is typical of the way they do business.

a reply to: skyeagle409

There was not a 9/11 False Flag. Had it been, people would have been in prison by now. It didn't take long before members of Nixon's team were jailed over Watergate and yet we are being led to believe that 9/11 was a False Flag operation. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Many people believe 911 was a false Flag operation, it was carried out with perfect timing, ( war games that morning ) the perfect distractions used by insiders to allow four planes to fly off their given course and over highly restricted airspace including over our nuclear power plants, highly restricted airspace.

The only possible way for that to happened was there had to be an order of silence on NORAD, the Pentagon and the FAA for an hour. That's right a whole hour. The fact is that's what all the evidence supports.

The United States spends billions of dollar's annually for defense in protecting this country. The United States is the most secure country in the world with the best technologies the world have to offer. Yet on the morning of 911, none of the proper protocols were carried out. Why? We all have been waiting 14 years for that answer and all we get is their silence.

It is laughable to believe 19 alleged hijackers were able to infiltrate all of our high advance technologies for a whole hour, this is laughable it is a joke, it is also impossible.

If it walks like a duck.... then it is a duck. It was a False Flag.

You say people would be in prion by now. That is truly a laughable answer. Not if everyone was on a need to know basics and being kept very compartmentalized. My opinion is only a handful knows the real truth.

You cannot compare Watergate to 911 two complete different events 911 was a highly organized timely event, that only a handful of military renegades helped carried out.

Please explain in detail, for what reason why the government would do such a thing. Keeping in mind that I am a retired government employee.

I just did.

If you can keep everything "highly compartmentalized" you can get away with anything.

a reply to: Informer1958

Many people believe 911 was a false Flag operation, it was carried out with perfect timing, ( war games that morning ) the perfect distractions used by insiders to allow four planes to fly off their given course and over highly restricted airspace including over our nuclear power plants, highly restricted airspace.

That is false. It is absurd to think we close our air defense doors because of an exercise. That is silly to say the least. The exercise was schedule long before 9/11, but let's take a look at how many drills were conducted before the 9/11 attack and yet, no terrorist attack during the many exercises before the 9/11 attack, which points out how the CT folks are easily duped and as a result, they concoct unfounded conspiracy theories.

PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT

Drill Date Scenario
1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into famous US building
2 White House, Richard Clarke 1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive, attack Washington DC
3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets, including WTC, MASCAL
4 Able Danger: DIA, US-SOCOM, LIWA Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy control)
5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy control)
6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?)
7 Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group (P2OG) unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy control)
8 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ, NYC October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane into UN HQ NYC
9 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ NYC October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes FedEx plane with WMD into UN HQ NYC
10 Pentagon MASCAL exercise Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon, MASCAL
11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio that had turned its transponder off
12 Positive Force ’01: NORAD plus a dozen agencies; worldwide April 17-26, 2001 COG; attacks on transportation; one scenario: terrorist group hijacking commercial airliner and flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack)
13 Unified Vision ’01: US JFCOM; US CENTCOM; US SOCOM: 40 agencies May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan (prepared Operation Enduring Freedom)
14 Red Ex (Recognition, Evaluation, and Decision-Making Exercise); NYC OEM; FDNY; NYPD; FEMA; FBI May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in New York City (WTC attack, demolition)
15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: US-Canada multi-agency drill; NORAD; SEADS; Coast Guard, Army, Navy June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based Expeditionary Connectivity Center (JBECC) mobile radar command center tested. (Pentagon attack)
16 Mall Strike 2001, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (near Shanksville); 600 local first responders and emergency managers June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination; (indoctrination of first responders).
17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field office, Miami-Dade County Police Department. Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over Florida
18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army Airfield helicopter base MASCAL June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon (indoctrination of first responders).
19 US Department of Transportation Hijacking Exercise August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis Management Center drilled hijacks; simulated cell phone calls.
20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San Francisco

PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT (continued)
Drill Date Scenario
21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin Po” to Seattle
22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up
23 NORAD SEADS NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from Cuba hijacked by asylum seekers, lands at Dobbins Air Force Base in Georgia

ON 9/11
Drill Date Scenario
24 FBI training exercise in Monterey, California for FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Through 9/11 Diverts top FBI, CIA anti-terrorist and special operations agents and heavy equipment away from Boston, NYC, Washington DC
25 NORAD annual readiness drill, Cheyenne Mountain, CO (Vigilant Guardian) 9/11 Full ‘battle staff’ levels to test entire organization
26 Vigilant Guardian: NORAD, NEADS, US-Canada 9/11 Live-fly hijacking and air defense; hijack multiplication, diversion and confusion
27 NORAD/JCS Vigilant Warrior Through 9/11 Reported by Richard Clarke
28 Operation Southern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 174th Fighter Wing, New York Air National Guard, to Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, to impose no-fly zone over southern Iraq
29 Operation Northern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 6 fighters from Langley AFB sent to Incirlik AFB, Turkey to impose no-fly zone over northern Iraq
30 Operation Northern Vigilance Through 9/11 Diverts fighters, 350 personnel to Alaska and northern Canada to counter a Russian bomber drill
31 Operation Northern Guardian, Keflavik AFB, Iceland Through 9/11 Diverts fighters from Langley Air Force Base (Virginia) deployed to Keflavik AFB, Iceland to counter a Russian bomber drill
32 Red Flag, Nellis AFB, Nevada: 100 pilots 9/11 Diverts most F-15s of 71st Fighter Squadron, Langley AFB, VA; DC ANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron of Andrews Air Force Base also depleted.
33 Andrews AFB local drill 9/11 Diverts 3 F-16s to North Carolina
34 National Reconnaissance Office drill, Chantilly, Virginia 9/11 Simulated plane crash into high-rise government building; satellite imaging (WTC attack)
35 Tripod II, New York City 9/11 Response to biochemical attack; run from backup command center at Pier 92, Hudson River.
36 Fort Meyer VAEducation Centertraining drill for local firemen 9/11 Assembled and indoctrinated Pentagon first responders.
37 Timely Alert II, Fort Monmouth, New Jersey 9/11 Indoctrination of WTC first responders.
38 World Trade Center Emergency Drill, Fiduciary Trust Co., 97th floor, South Tower 9/11 Meeting called to assemble and silence unreliable outside contractors?

ON 9/11 (continued)
Drill Date Scenario
39 Global Guardian, STRATCOM: Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Barksdale AFB, Louisiana; Minot AFB, North Dakota; Whiteman AFB, Missouri. 9/11 Nuclear warfighting; Armageddon. (deterrence of Russia and China during invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan)

a reply to: skyeagle409

Continue:

40 Amalgam Warrior 9/11 Large live-fly air defense and air intercept, tracking, and surveillance drill; air defense against foreign retaliation.
41 Crown Vigilance, Air Combat Command 9/11 No details known.
42 Apollo Guardian, US Space Command 9/11 No details known.
43 AWACS drill, ordered by NORAD commander Gen. Larry Arnold 9/11 Two AWACS aircraft from Tinker AFB, Oklahoma sent over Washington DC and Florida; surveillance of capital and president during coup.
44 Global Guardian Computer Network Attack 9/11 Enemy forces “war dialed” STRATCOM’s telephone and fax systems; “bad insider” has access to key C³ system (missile launch option)
45 STRATCOM Strategic Advisory Committee, Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Andrews AFB, MD; Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio. 9/11 Three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes (Doomsday or Looking Glass) airborne; passengers include Brent Scowcroft; Warren Buffet at Offutt.

As you can see, we conduct drills on a regular basis, not just during 9/11, which was normal scheduled exercise anyway.

The only possible way for that to happened was there had to be an order of silence on NORAD, the Pentagon and the FAA for an hour. That's right a whole hour. The fact is that's what all the evidence supports.[/quote

To let you know from someone (myself) who has connections to an air defense unit,(477th Fighter Group, 302nd Fighter Squadron) NORAD is never silenced. In fact, the unit I am referring to was involved in the interception of Russian bombers just last month on July 4, 2015 near Alaska.

So, this is another case where CT folks do not bother to do their homework and instead, concoct another unfounded conspiracy theory, this time, over drills and air defense.

The United States spends billions of dollar's annually for defense in protecting this country. The United States is the most secure country in the world with the best technologies the world have to offer. Yet on the morning of 911, none of the proper protocols were carried out. Why? We all have been waiting 14 years for that answer and all we get is their silence.

Why? Because our air defense was not geared to intercept aircraft within the borders of the United States. Case in point involved a stolen Lear Jet in Virginia.

Death Ends 1,600-Mile Flight Of Learjet Stolen by Mechanic

DENVER, May 25— A flight mechanic who did not have a pilot's license stole a private jet in Virginia early today and flew it 1,600 miles to Denver, where he shot himself to death as the authorities closed in, officials said.

They said they did not why the mechanic, Mike Christiansen, 24 years old, of Newport News, Va., stole the twin-engine Learjet 36-A. He was found dead at the controls moments after landing the plane that had been stolen from his employer, Flight International, at Patrick Henry International Airport in Newport News.

Denver police officers, agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and emergency vehicles were waiting at the edge of the runway after Mr. Christiansen was guided from the control tower to a near perfect landing at Stapleton International Airport at 5:18 A.M. 'Happened Really Fast'

www.nytimes.com...

The aircraft was never shot down.

It is laughable to believe 19 alleged hijackers were able to infiltrate all of our high advance technologies for a whole hour, this is laughable it is a joke, it is also impossible.

No problem at all, A friend of mine, who continues to perform at airshows today, lost her father, who was captain of Pacific Airlines during the hijacking of his aircraft by a lone hijacker, who killed her father and his co-pilot and then, crashed the airliner killing all on board.The incident occurred within 45 miles of my home.Another lone hijacker of PSA 1771, killed both pilots and crashed that aircraft into the ground. Another lone hijacker attacked both pilots of a cargo jet with nothing more than a hammer.

If it walks like a duck.... then it is a duck. It was a False Flag.

Ever wondered why all major news services and investigative agencies after 14 years, do not see your False Flag duck?

edit on 13-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: skyeagle409

That's correct. For an example, they continue to insist that the WTC buildings collapsed at free fall speed, but photos and videos proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that those building did not fall at free fall speed, which is evident by the fact that debris from the building are striking the ground while the collapse of the building is still in progress many stories above?

I can understand why you believe your above statement. It is easy to come to that conclusion. You have ignored the real science that proves otherwise. Fingers in ears, eyes tightly closed. Keep repeating they same narratives it is called being in complete denial.

What I am witnessing is someone embracing ignorance.

Question is; why do they continue to insist the WTC buildings fell at free fall speed when it has been proven with video evidence that no such thing occurred?

That is typical of the way they do business.

Freefall and Building 7 on 9/11

Freefall is an embarrassment to the official story, because freefall is impossible for a naturally collapsing building. In a natural collapse there would be an interaction between the falling and the stationary sections of the building. This interaction would cause crushing of both sections and slowing of the falling section. I have done measurements on several known demolitions, using similar software tools, and found that they typically fall with accelerations considerably less than freefall. Building 7 was not only demolished, it was demolished with tremendous overkill. Freefall was so embarrassing to NIST that in the August 2008 draft release for public comment of their final report, the fact of freefall was denied and crudely covered up with the assertion that the collapse took 40% longer than "freefall time." They asserted that the actual collapse, down to the level of the 29th floor, took 5.4 seconds whereas freefall would have taken only 3.9 seconds. They arrived at their figures with only two data points: the time when the roofline reached the level of the 29th floor and an artificially early start time several seconds prior to the beginning of the obvious, sudden onset of freefall. They started their clock at a time between the collapses of the east and west penthouses when the building was not moving. They claimed they saw a change in a "single pixel" triggering what they asserted was the onset of collapse, but anyone who has worked with the actual videos will recognize that the edge artifacts in the image of the building make this an unrealistic standard. Furthermore, even if there was a tiny motion of the building at that point, it continued to stand essentially motionless for several more seconds before the dramatic onset of freefall collapse. The fact of a cover up in NIST's measurement is underlined in that the formula they point to as the basis for their calculation of "freefall time" is valid only under conditions of constant acceleration. They applied that equation to a situation that was far from uniform acceleration. Instead, the building remained essentially at rest for several seconds, then plunged into freefall, then slowed to a lesser acceleration. Their analysis demonstrates either gross incompetence or a crude attempt at a cover up. The scientists at NIST are clearly not incompetent, so the only reasonable conclusion is to interpret this as part of a cover up. (It is important to stand back occasionally and recognize the context of these events. This was not just a cover-up of an embarrassing fact. It was a cover-up of facts in the murder of nearly 3000 people and part of a justification for a war in which well over a million people have since been killed.)

www1.ae911truth.org...

I rest my case.

There is plenty more to read in the source I have given you. If you choose to ignore it as I expect you to then this discussion is closed between you and I.

If you want to gravitate to 911 Myths pseudo science, then knock yourself out.

a reply to: Informer1958

Freefall is an embarrassment to the official story, because freefall is impossible for a naturally collapsing building.[/qluote]

What is silly about your reference is that videos and photos have already proven that none of the WTC buildings fell at free fall speed.

I rest my case.

After watching that video, your case has been dismissed by facts and evidence.

edit on 13-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Informer1958

What I am witnessing is someone embracing ignorance.

I am not the person pushing the False Flag operation that never was. Tell you what, present your so-called free fall evidence to any of the major news services to see what they think. After all, they also have access to videos and it has been 14 years.

a reply to: RomanMaroni

And keep in mind you are talking to a retired government employee. So he knows exactly what everyone in the government is doing at all times. And being a retired government employee clearly means he is much more of an expert than you on anything government related.

What are you, a mouth piece for skyeagle409? says a lot about you doesn't it.

skyeagle409 does not have top secrete clearance and no he is not allowed to know every one business in the military.

Most things in the military is compartmentalized.

a reply to: Informer1958

What are you, a mouth piece for skyeagle409? says a lot about you doesn't it.

skyeagle409 does not have top secrete clearance and no he is not allowed to know every one business in the military.

Most things in the military is compartmentalized.

That wouldn't have worked in the case of 9/11 and I know that as a fact. There is no way the military would have been a part of such an operation and I know that as an Air Force retiree and former defense contractor.

People think that can watch Hollywood action movies and apply fiction with reality, but in the real world, that is not the way it works.

a reply to: skyeagle409

That is false. It is absurd to think we close our air defense doors because of an exercise. That is silly to say the least. The exercise was schedule long before 9/11, but let's take a look at how many drills were conducted before the 9/11 attack and yet, no terrorist attack during the many exercises before the 9/11 attack, which points out how the CT folks are easily duped and as a result, they concoct unfounded conspiracy theories.

No you are wrong pulling up copy and past garbage from 911 Myths is nothing but regurgitated fallacies that have been debunks for years by experts in their fields Stop promoting well known fallacies websites materials to support your erroneous claims.

a reply to: skyeagle409

What is silly about your reference is that videos and photos have already proven that none of the WTC buildings fell at free fall speed.

Now you are the one making up garbage.

You completely ignored the given science I just gave you. this discussion is over between you and I, I have better things to do then argue with an person who does not understand science.

You have not convince me, or anyone else that your content is scientific, but to continue to copy and past rubbish.

a reply to: skyeagle409

That wouldn't have worked in the case of 9/11 and I know that as a fact. There is no way the military would have been a part of such an operation and I know that as an Air Force retiree and former defense contractor.

BS! I been in the military, so was my father you are full of it!

originally posted by: Informer1958

BS! I been in the military, so was my father you are full of it!

So you and your father would have happily participated in a US government plot to kill innocent US civilians ?

Is that your proof ?

a reply to: skyeagle409

Can add this

Was in Weapons of Mass Destruction class 6 months before 9/11 (March 2001)

Our instructor, retired NJ State Police, made point that having hit the towers once would
be another attack

Our course syllabus was the famous picture of the Crosshairs on the WTC towers

Based on truther logic this is important.......

a reply to: Informer1958

No you are wrong pulling up copy and past garbage from 911 Myths

How amusing that you would say such a things when my own base was conducting drills as well.

Now, prove that each of those drills never occurred, because I plan to prove that CT folks are also guilty of distorting the facts, just as you have done.

a reply to: Informer1958

BS! I been in the military, so was my father...

Then, why are you arguing with me? You would know that I am right on the money. Anyone who served in the military would know that such an operation could not have been compartmentalized by any means.