If Someone Proved one point Would Accept the rest?

a reply to: samkent

Thanks for the advice!

a reply to: skyeagle409

Al Jazeera? Come on. Talk about a disinfo link. Run by Saudi Arabia and Qatar the lapdogs of Israel. Yikes man. You post a lot of disinfo from Mainstream Sources that are owned by the same people that orchestrated 9/11. The apparent hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.

A bit like the fake Martyr videos by the accused that supposedly did the 7/7 London bombings!

Fake Bin Laden videos, Fake Hijacker videos, Fake bomber videos and the most recent Fake Jihadi John videos.

They all have a common purpose. To keep the lies alive!

a reply to: Nova937

Al Jazeera? Come on. Talk about a disinfo link.

It is peculiar that you speak of disinfo links, and yet, you have been caught posting hoaxed and bogus videos, one of which I posted to prove that Truthers have a bad habit of posting hoaxed videos and then you came along a short time later and posted that same hoaxed video I posted to prove my case that Truthers have been posting hoaxed and bogus videos.

Thanks for your support for proving my case.

They all have a common purpose. To keep the lies alive!

It is no secret that the Truth Movement has been doing just that. Check it out.

Disinformation Killed 9/11 “Truth”

By 2009, the 9/11 “Truth” Movement was so inundated with disinformation that it had become a laughingstock. The easily-discredited claims (lies) contaminated the greater issue and soiled dissenters across the board. “Turd blossom” was a Karl Rove phrase that could describe what the movement had devolved into. The media, whether corporate or foundation-funded, could find people ranting about “the Jews” or the Illuminati, the Lizard People, the missiles, holograms, mini-nukes or space beam weapons vaporizing the Twin Towers.

Many trolls, and some public personalities, appeared to be professional disinformation artists hard at work concocting and posting this crap online, which others repeated to their own detriment. One cannot easily prove that a specific person is a paid shill, a disinformation agent, a cyber agent provocateur, but be assured they are out there, and “out there.”

DISINFORMATION TO DISCREDIT

Author Thomas Pynchon wrote, “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” I’ll go one better and in the process explain modern cyber disinformation: If they can get you asking stupid questions, then their lapdog media can dismiss you as a “nut.”

www.911truth.org...

And yet, you have been caught posting that same disinformation that was debunked years ago with facts and evidence.

originally posted by: Nova937

14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?

You can cross this question off your list.

The town of New Baltimore is located 8 miles south east of the crash site. IT WAS STRAIGHT DOWN WIND OF THE CRASH SITE on sept 11. This is the furthest distance that debris was collected.



Most of the debris collected in New Baltimore was found in the back yard of this church by a grounds keeper and collected by Melanie Hankinson.



Melanie Hankinson.

"The village of New Baltimore is a dozen or more miles by automobile but eight as the wind blows, which it was doing a year ago. Melanie Hankinson was at the church next to her home, transfixed before a television that showed the World Trade Center ablaze, when the man who sprays her lawn stopped by to tell her he was finding odd things in the weeds.

"He said there was a loud bang and smoke and then these papers started blowing through your yard," she said. "I said, 'Oh.' Then I went back to the TV." Then the parish priest, the Rev. Allen Zeth, told her an airplane had crashed in Shanksville.

For the next few hours, Hankinson gathered charred pages of in-flight magazines, papers from a pilot's manual -- she remembers a map showing the Guadalajara, Mexico, airport -- and copies of stock portfolio monthly earnings reports.

"And there was some black webbing -- a lot of people found that," she said. The webbing, flexible where it hadn't burned, crisp where it had, was from insulation lining the belly of the jetliner."

What she is describing in those last two sentences is carbon fiber. The resin in carbon fiber is flammable, the carbon fiber is not. When it burns, the resin disappears and only the cloth is left. She just has the burnt and unburnt backwards.

The debris that she collected is spread out on the kitchen table in this photo.



A payroll check was also found outside the home of Andy Stoe. What is seen in these two photos is the total debris collected from New Baltimore. Yes, this is what all the fuss is about.



Also located down wind of the crash site is the Indian Lake Marina. It's 2.4 miles from the crater.



If you look at the top photo in this post you will see the yellow line passes directly over the marina. Both are directly inline with the wind.



The majority of debris collected at Indian Lake was also paper and carbon fiber.

quote John Fleegle
By Wednesday morning, crash debris began washing ashore at the marina. Fleegle said there was something that looked like a rib bone amid pieces of seats, small chunks of melted plastic and checks

The rib bone turned out not to be human.

John Fleegle collecting fragments of carbon fiber.



The parts of a Boeing 757 made from composites are the external skins of the rudder, vertical stabiliser, elevator, horizontal stabiliser, ailerons, flaps, slats, wing fairing, gear doors, nose cone, and floor.
If you are looking for the tail of the plane you should be looking for something like this.



Carbon fiber with honeycomb still attached.



So how did this debris travel so far. It was carried by this cloud. When the mushroom cloud rose up it carried the debris with it. The position of the cloud in this photo is just past Indian Lake and on its way to New Baltimore.



Video of a thermal going through a camp site for those of you who say air can't pick things up and carry them off.

originally posted by: Nova937

29. How did a hijackers passport miraculously appear near the WTC? Who found it and what time?

You can cross this question off the list also.


The passport surviving the fireball is easy to explain. It was out the other side of the building before the fireball occurred.

A Boeing 767 has 19500 cu/ft of air inside it's cabin. Air has mass. Moving mass has inertia. After impact the air continued moving forward and out the other side of the building. It carried the passport with it. At the speed the air was traveling it would take less than 1/4 of a second to transverse the building. The fireball erupted at about 1/4 of a second after impact.





The name of the man who found the passport is Richard Wozniak this is what he looks like:

I was now standing in what seemed to be a war zone. There were scattered police and firefighters all around the streets. It seemed that I was one of only a handful of civilians so I had to pass myself off as a security agent as I was determined to stay and help. I was now outside the Bankers Trust (130 Liberty St.) building approximately 100 ft. or so away from the entrance of the main tower. I could hear objects hitting the ground around me so I decided to work my way around the back of the building and now I had learned what had happened.

I was standing in the middle of what were the remains of a passenger aircraft. There were seats and engine parts smashed through car windows everywhere. What seemed to be an engine was embedded into the sidewalk and body parts were strewn all over the street. Then I looked down to my feet and picked up a passport. It was a Saudi passport. It was green with Arabic writing and as I opened it and saw the man’s face inside it and I felt as if I were looking into the eyes of someone that may have been part of the terror that I was witnessing around me and I later learned that I was right as I passed it off to an FBI agent that was standing a block away on West side Hwy who immediately took it from me. He then instructed me to leave the area but before he could notice I ran back to the side of the Bankers Trust building determined to help find survivors that may have been hurt in the streets or in the cars. Then my life was changed forever.

His email address is included if you would like to contact him,


www.bereanbeacon.org...

I found this photo in the NIST archives. The photo was taken by Chris Sorensen at 8:56 am near the corner of Albany and Greenwich st. Albany is the street behind the Bankers Trust Building where Richard said he found the passport. As you can see he didn't have to do much "searching through the debris" to find it.



Goto this page and click continue.
wtcdata.nist.gov...

then come back and click this link to view the photo

wtcdata.nist.gov...


Richard Wozniak was and still is working for American International Group, Inc. located on 175 Water st. NYC.

His email address is at the end of the link, if you have any questions you should contact him.

www.bereanbeacon.org...

a reply to: waypastvne

Actually was about 1 mile to mile and half

The 8 miles came about because idiot truthers using a mapping program to calculate the distance .......

THE DRIVING DISTANCE !!! Which is 8 miles

Since when does win blown debris follow the roads.......

a reply to: waypastvne

A number of pieces of mail being carried in cargo hold were recovered from the street below

On the street, standing in a shower of office paper and the siding from the building, he found a piece of paper. It was an airliner's itinerary, listing information about a flight from Boston to Los Angeles.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

a reply to: samkent

The problem... MY problem with the OS of the Pentagon attack is fairly simple; the plane body may well have left a hole but the jet engines would have left scars as well, which they did not.

Jet engines contain metals that do not disintegrate. In fact ALL engines; especially for aircraft, are not made of substances that can be dissolved by media magic or conspiratorial wishing.

Historically? In 1945, a B-25 Mitchell Bomber flew into the side of the Empire State building...

"One engine shot through the South side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, dropping 900 feet and landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft."
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

The Pentagon displayed not a scratch for the jet engines from either wing.

...

a reply to: firerescue

1.6 miles to nearest edge of indian lake.
2.4 miles to marina.
8 miles to New Baltimore.
The measurements in my post are accurate.

a reply to: redoubt

In fact ALL engines; especially for aircraft, are not made of substances that can be dissolved by media magic or conspiratorial wishing.

You can find pictures of the engine parts (not dissolved) online if you look beyond conspiracy sites.

plane body may well have left a hole but the jet engines would have left scars as well, which they did not.

How do you know they didn't?
The entire side collapsed.

a reply to: redoubt

For those who don't think that engine wreckage was found at the Pentagon, let's take a look here.


Photo of Combustion Case from Engine of American 77

Rolls-Royce RB211-535 Parts Catalog

Photo of Rolls-Royce RB211-535 Engine Disk

Photo of Rolls-Royce RB211-535 Stator Case Resting Against Wall of the Pentagon

Photo of Rolls-Royce RB211-535 Turbine Wheel

Photo of Engine Impact Damage on Generator at the Pentagon

Flight Path to Generator at the Pentagon

The Pentagon displayed not a scratch for the jet engines from either wing.

...

That's a fairly clear statement...

five frames of video (indecipherable/unconscionable to present) to end the questioning of events?

a reply to: Nova937

They all have a common purpose. To keep the lies alive!

Let's take a look at what I have caught conspiracy theorist posting over the years.

Doctored Global Hawk Photo

Original Global Hawk Photo


Doctored Cruise Missile Photo

Original Cruise Missile Photo


Doctored Cruise Missile Photo

Original Cruise Missle Photo

a reply to: skyeagle409

skyeagle409, you posted this ... I am a pilot of 46 years and an aircraft structural technician of 48 years experience ..

I have no way to confirm this, but I am going to take your word for your experience, and those credentials are good enough for me to pose this question to you. Forgive my ignorance, but I have no knowledge of planes or jets as I have never flown anywhere in my life. But something that I have always wondered is how were the hijackers able to fly the planes to their targets so precisely?

What I mean by this is they took over the planes and shut down the auto pilot, transponders, and nearly everything is my knowledge. Like I say, I know nothing about these things, but I assume you do. If you look at the flight paths right after being taken over, they appear to fly directly to their targets. It seems odd to me that if I was somewhere over Ohio, and I wanted to turn around and fly to the Pentagon, how would I know where I was? Sure I could turn it around, but how would I know exactly how much to turn so that I was headed directly to the Pentagon? No one is sure where 93 was going so I'll just leave that one out, but the other 3 all made different angle turns to point them direct. It looks like Flight 11 made nearly a 90 degree, 175 made a slightly more severe turn, and 77 made a complete 180 with all seemingly lining up perfectly. If you can explain that to me, I would appreciate. Thanks.

upload.wikimedia.org...

a reply to: RomanMaroni

I have no way to confirm this, but I am going to take your word for your experience, and those credentials are good enough for me to pose this question to you. Forgive my ignorance, but I have no knowledge of planes or jets as I have never flown anywhere in my life. But something that I have always wondered is how were the hijackers able to fly the planes to their targets so precisely?

It doesn't take an expert to fly an airplane into a building. You simply keep the target in the windshield and correct as needed. As long as you can see the target in the windshield, you eventually are going to slam into it.

It doesn't take much to learn how to control an airplane that is airborne and even child can be taught to fly an airplane in a short period of time. The difficult part is landing, but that is not a problem if you have no intention of landing an airplane.

Conspiracy theorist claim that Hani conducted an impossible maneuver, but I found that rather peculiar considering that our C-5, KC-10, and C-17 transports regularly conduct similar maneuvers that are more dramatic and they do so from even higher altitudes than American 77. In other words, someone has been duping people about the 9/11 aircraft and their maneuvers.

All four terrorist hijack pilots were trained to fly aircraft and had more than enough flight experience to fly an airplane into a building. In fact, there was a mechanic in Virginia who stole a Lear Jet and flew the aircraft to Denver, Colorado. Another mechanic in Europe stole a C-130, and still another stole an F-86 jet fighter.

Flying an airplane that is already airborne is not difficult at all. As far a flying an aircraft on a simulator, you can practice striking a building at a particular location in the United States, and the hijackers had access to flight simulators as well. Chances are, the hijackers practiced their maneuvers and navigational procedures over and over again on desktop computers using aeronautical charts in conjunction with their flight simulators that are available to anyone, even on the Internet.

Since the terrorist pilots were trained enough, it would have been easy for them to plug in the frequencies of the VORs nearest their targets and then, home in on their targets using local landmarks, a very easy task.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Forgive me if I was unclear. That isn't answering the question I am asking. I'm not asking how they flew "into" the target, I'm asking how they flew "to" the target. Obviously anyone can fly an already airborne plane. My question is how did they know the exact path to get there?

Let's use Flight 77 as an example. The plane was all the way to Ohio. So the Pentagon wasn't "in the windshield." None of the targets were in the windshield at the time of being taken over. If you're standing in a field in Ohio and someone said, "walk to the Pentagon", would you know the exact path to walk? I'm sure you could figure out which way is east, but could you just take a direct path to it? How did they all do that? With everything turned off, is there still something that tells them navigation?

a reply to: RomanMaroni

Let's use Flight 77 as an example. The plane was all the way to Ohio. So the Pentagon wasn't "in the windshield." None of the targets were in the windshield at the time of being taken over. If you're standing in a field in Ohio and someone said, "walk to the Pentagon", would you know the exact path to walk? I'm sure you could figure out which way is east, but could you just take a direct path to it? How did they all do that? With everything turned off, is there still something that tells them navigation?

On the ground, it is one thing, but in an aircraft, all the terrorist pilots had to do was to know the VOR freqencies for the VOR nearest their targets or airport codes for the nearest airport closest to their targets. I am very sure they knew how to use the FMS to find their way to the target area.

It is a very simple procedure and I can teach a child who has never been in an airplane how to navigate from KORD, (Chicago O'Hare), to KJFK, (New York, JFK) and do so in less than 20 minutes using the FMS of either the B-767 or the B-757, which doesn't make any difference considering that the instrument panels of both aircraft are similar.

For the 9/11 hijackers (pilots), it would have been a piece of cake to navigate to their targets since the FMS would have shown them the way.

I also wanted to add that they could have seen the Twin Towers from many miles away, and the Pentagon and other landmarks in Washington D.C., are very easy to see from the air as well.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Lol a piece of cake!

All of the pilots of these planes were ex Military. How in the hell could Muslims with box cutters take these planes over?

No way in hell!

The more you spout your disinfo the more I laugh!

a reply to: skyeagle409

I think it's strange that you have responded to me twice to say "even child can be taught to fly an airplane" and "I can teach a child who has never been in an airplane how to navigate". I'm not trying to get you into a "gotcha" situation or doubting your expertise in any way. I am genuinely curious about this, and with your credentials, I am going to trust your responses. Responding to me the way you have comes across as disrespectful. I have already told you I have never even been in an airplane.

But again forgive my ignorance on these things but could you tell me what VOR frequencies are and what is FMS? And despite shutting everything down inside the plane, do they still work the same?

a reply to: Nova937

All of the pilots of these planes were ex Military. How in the hell could Muslims with box cutters take these planes over?

No way in hell!

No problem at all. In fact, the body of one of the hijackers was found in the cockpit seat. In addition, ATC got the voices of the 9/11 hijackers in the cockpit. Who do you think were flying the airliners into WTC 1, WTC 2, the Pentagon and at Shanksville?