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If Someone Proved one point Would Accept the rest?
page: 5share:
a reply to: MasterFlint
I have to correct you. A check of the history book will show that at no time did the CIA train members of Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization known as al-Qaeda. In Afghanistan, the CIA supported the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs, which included Osama bin Laden. The Afghan Mujahideen and the Afghan Arabs were two distinct groups. I might also add that the Afghan Arabs were foreigners, which was the group which Osama bin Laden belonged.
Afghan Arabs
Afghan Arabs (also known as Arab-Afghans) were Arab and other Muslim Islamist mujahideen who came to Afghanistan during and following the Soviet-Afghan War to help fellow Muslims fight Soviets and pro-Soviet Afghans.
Osama bin Laden used the thousands of fighters he recruited in 1988 to fight against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan bin Laden expanded his "jihad" or holy war. The goals of al-Qaida's jihad are to establish the rule of God on Earth, to cleanse Islam of depravity and to become martyrs to the cause. In 1998 al Qaida issued a statement claiming it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens including civilians.
Afghan Mujahideen
The Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen (also known as the Seven Party Mujahideen Alliance or Peshawar Seven) was an Afghan organization formed in May 1985 by the seven Afghanmujahideen parties fighting against the Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan forces in the Soviet-Afghan War. The alliance sought to function as a united diplomatic front towards the world opinion, and sought representation in the United Nations and Organisation of the Islamic Conference
So once again, it was the Afghan Mujanhideen, not the Afghan Arabs, that was supported by the CIA. Just a courtesy history lesson.
Hijackers have hijacked airliners before. Let's not forget about D.B. Cooper.
All four of the hijacker pilots were properly trained. In fact, Hani not only held a commercial pilots license, but he went on to work toward a B-737-type rating as well. Any child can be trained to fly an airplane in a very short period of time. Check it out. The two aviation-related chapters that I have led fly children each month and show them what flying is all about.
Nothing unusal about that considering that our air defenses are not geared to intercepting aircraft within the borders of the United States. Check it out.
It was never a mystery to me considering that I have lived in the world of aviation for 48 years. Now, you know the rest of the story.
So 19 Saudis, lead by a Saudi, part of a independent terror organization that was originally trained by the CIA and the United States government...
I have to correct you. A check of the history book will show that at no time did the CIA train members of Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization known as al-Qaeda. In Afghanistan, the CIA supported the Afghan Mujahideen, not the Afghan Arabs, which included Osama bin Laden. The Afghan Mujahideen and the Afghan Arabs were two distinct groups. I might also add that the Afghan Arabs were foreigners, which was the group which Osama bin Laden belonged.
Afghan Arabs
Afghan Arabs (also known as Arab-Afghans) were Arab and other Muslim Islamist mujahideen who came to Afghanistan during and following the Soviet-Afghan War to help fellow Muslims fight Soviets and pro-Soviet Afghans.
Osama bin Laden used the thousands of fighters he recruited in 1988 to fight against the Soviet troops in Afghanistan. After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan bin Laden expanded his "jihad" or holy war. The goals of al-Qaida's jihad are to establish the rule of God on Earth, to cleanse Islam of depravity and to become martyrs to the cause. In 1998 al Qaida issued a statement claiming it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens including civilians.
Afghan Mujahideen
The Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen (also known as the Seven Party Mujahideen Alliance or Peshawar Seven) was an Afghan organization formed in May 1985 by the seven Afghanmujahideen parties fighting against the Soviet and Democratic Republic of Afghanistan forces in the Soviet-Afghan War. The alliance sought to function as a united diplomatic front towards the world opinion, and sought representation in the United Nations and Organisation of the Islamic Conference
So once again, it was the Afghan Mujanhideen, not the Afghan Arabs, that was supported by the CIA. Just a courtesy history lesson.
.......came up with the idea to hijack 4 planes with nothing but box cutters and very fashionable red bandanas (the flight recordings claiming they used CS or Tear Gas are to be forgotten)
Hijackers have hijacked airliners before. Let's not forget about D.B. Cooper.
... and then fly those planes willy nilly without proper training on how to do so for over an hour,
All four of the hijacker pilots were properly trained. In fact, Hani not only held a commercial pilots license, but he went on to work toward a B-737-type rating as well. Any child can be trained to fly an airplane in a very short period of time. Check it out. The two aviation-related chapters that I have led fly children each month and show them what flying is all about.
...never getting intercepted by any NORAD Interceptors...
Nothing unusal about that considering that our air defenses are not geared to intercepting aircraft within the borders of the United States. Check it out.
Death Ends 1,600-Mile Flight Of Learjet Stolen by Mechanic
A flight mechanic who did not have a pilot's license stole a private jet in Virginia early today and flew it 1,600 miles to Denver, where he shot himself to death as the authorities closed in, officials said.
They said they did not why the mechanic, Mike Christiansen, 24 years old, of Newport News, Va., stole the twin-engine Learjet 36-A.
He was found dead at the controls moments after landing the plane that had been stolen from his employer, Flight International, at Patrick Henry International Airport in Newport News.
www.nytimes.com...
-----------------------------------------------------------
9-11 Fighter Pilot: We Wouldn't Have Shot Down Hijackers
The pilot of one of two U.S. military jets that were scrambled on 9-11 moments after kamikaze hijacker Mohamed Atta slammed American Airlines Flight 11 into Tower One of the World Trade Center said Wednesday that he wouldn't have been able to stop the attack even if he intercepted the plane.
"If we had intercepted American 11, we probably would have watched it crash," the pilot, identified only by his military codename "Nasty," told the Cape Cod Times. "We didn't have the authority to (shoot it down)."
As part of the 102nd Fighter Wing flying out of Otis Air National Guard Base on Cape Cod, "Nasty" and his partner, codenamed "Duff," were scrambled at 8:46 a.m. as news of Flight 11's hijacking reached the base.
"We didn't suspect they would use kamikaze tactics that morning," the pilot told the Times. "We weren't ready for that type of an attack, to quickly shoot down one of our own airplanes."
At the time, military pilots had no such standing orders. Absent a presidential directive they had no authority to blow a commercial airliner out of the sky.
9/11 10th Anniversary: F-15 pilot
Dan Nash
recalls response
Controllers from the Northeast Air
Defense Sector would spot an aircraft on their radar and ask the pilots to investigate and steer it away from Manhattan’s airspace. Over a four-hour period, Nash and Duffy repeated the process for between 50 and 100 aircraft.
When the South Tower of the trade center fell at 9:59 a.m., Nash was flying east over Kennedy, escorting a small civilian airliner to a safe landing. “When we turned around,” he recalled, “Manhattan was covered with what I thought was smoke. But it was the dust from the collapsed tower.”
The pilots were over the North Tower when it collapsed at 10:28 a.m. From an altitude of 6,000 feet, according to Vittner’s report, Duffy watched the tower implode. Nash wasn’t looking down at the time; he only saw the aftermath. The plume of smoke and ash, he estimated, rose 5,000 feet above streets below.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
113th Wing, Andrews AFB
"We've never been an air defense unit. We practice scrambles, we know how to do intercepts and other things, but there's a lot of protocol in the air defense business. We obviously didn't have that expertise...
Chief of Safety for the 113th Wing, Andrews AFB.
It was never a mystery to me considering that I have lived in the world of aviation for 48 years. Now, you know the rest of the story.
edit on 6-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: MasterFlint
I can teach a child who has never flown in an airplane how to maneuver an airplane in less than 30 minutes, and remember, the hijackers didn't have to takeoff nor land the hijacked airliners. In fact, to fly an airliner into a building doesn't require extensive flight training at all.
There was nothing impossible about those flight maneuvers, and in fact, the Hani maneuver was so boring that I could have made a sandwich during the whole time he performed his boring maneuver.
At Travis AFB, our giant C-5, KC-10, and C-17 transports perform similar training maneuvers from even higher altitudes than that performed by the hijacker pilot of American 77. The fact that someone duped Truthers into thinking those maneuvers were impossible shows how easy it is to pull the wool over the eyes of those who don't bother to do their homework.
Let's take a look to see if you are correct.
Now, what was that you were saying about there was never a case where three steel frame buildings collapsed on the same day due to fire? History has clearly shown that has been the case.
Considering that nations around the world issued warnings to the United States, that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda would attack the United States with hijack aircraft, it should be of no surprise after the 9/11 occurred as to whom was reaponsible for the 9/11 terrorist attack on America.
.....and then perform 3 impossible flight maneuvers to hit 3 of their targets perfectly
I can teach a child who has never flown in an airplane how to maneuver an airplane in less than 30 minutes, and remember, the hijackers didn't have to takeoff nor land the hijacked airliners. In fact, to fly an airliner into a building doesn't require extensive flight training at all.
There was nothing impossible about those flight maneuvers, and in fact, the Hani maneuver was so boring that I could have made a sandwich during the whole time he performed his boring maneuver.
At Travis AFB, our giant C-5, KC-10, and C-17 transports perform similar training maneuvers from even higher altitudes than that performed by the hijacker pilot of American 77. The fact that someone duped Truthers into thinking those maneuvers were impossible shows how easy it is to pull the wool over the eyes of those who don't bother to do their homework.
....causing 3 Steel Buildings to collapse due to fire, which is impossible and never happened before, and got so lucky that one of those 3 buildings that collapsed wasn't even hit by them
Let's take a look to see if you are correct.
Kader Toy Factory Fire: Three (3) Steel Frame Buildings Collapse Due to Fire
At about 4pm on May 10th, 1993, a small fire was discovered on the first floor of part of the E-shaped building. Workers were instructed to keep working as the fire was thought to be minor. The fire alarm in this building did not sound.
The building was reinforced with un-insulated steel girders which quickly weakened and collapsed. This part of the building was dedicated to the storage of finished products and the fire spread quickly. Other parts of the factory were full of raw materials which also burnt very fast.
Workers in the first building who tried to escape found the ground floor exit doors locked, and the stairwells soon collapsed. Many workers jumped from the second, third and fourth floor windows in order to escape the flames, resulting in severe injuries or death. Fire-fighters arrived at the factory at about 4:40pm, to find Building One about to collapse.
The Kader buildings,...collapsed relatively early in the fire because their structural steel supports lacked the fireproofing that would have allowed them to maintain their strength when exposed to high temperatures. A post-fire review of the debris at the Kader site showed no indication that any of the steel members had been fireproofed.
Now, what was that you were saying about there was never a case where three steel frame buildings collapsed on the same day due to fire? History has clearly shown that has been the case.
............causing the greatest terrorist attack on American soil.
Considering that nations around the world issued warnings to the United States, that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda would attack the United States with hijack aircraft, it should be of no surprise after the 9/11 occurred as to whom was reaponsible for the 9/11 terrorist attack on America.
Taleban 'warned US of huge attack'
An aide to the former Taleban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, has revealed that he was sent to warn American diplomats and the United Nations that Osama bin Laden was due to launch a huge attack on American soil. Mr Muttawakil, who was known to be deeply unhappy with the Arab and other foreign militants in Afghanistan, learned of Osama bin Laden's plan in July.
Neither organisation heeded the warning, which was given just weeks before the 11 September attacks.
news.bbc.co.uk...
a reply to: MasterFlint
The military conducts drills all the time and we don't shut down our air defenses because of drills.Our air defense is a 24/7 operation. Now, let's take a look at the number of drills that were performed before, and after 9/11.
Please tell us, how many drills were conducted? That is just half of the drills during that rough time frame because there were over forty such drills.
-------------------------------------------------
They Tried to Warn Us: Foreign Intelligence Warnings Before 9/11
First, General Warnings
# In late 2000, British investigators teamed up with their counterparts in the Cayman Islands and began a yearlong probe of three Afghan men who had entered the Cayman Islands illegally. [Miami Herald, 9/20/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01] In June 2001, the Afghan men were overheard discussing hijacking attacks in New York City, and were promptly taken into custody. This information was forwarded to US intelligence [Fox News, 5/17/02]. In late August 2001, shortly before the attacks, an anonymous letter to a Cayman radio station alleged these same men were al-Qaeda agents “organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines.” [Miami Herald, 9/20/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01, MSNBC, 9/23/01]
1. In late July 2001, Afghanistan’s Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil learned that Osama bin Laden was planning a “huge attack” on targets inside America. The attack was imminent, and would kill thousands, he learned from the leader of the rebel Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, which was closely allied with al-Qaeda at the time. Muttawakil sent an emissary to pass this information on to the US Consul General, and another US official, “possibly from the intelligence services.” Sources confirmed that this message was received, but supposedly not taken very seriously, because of “warning fatigue” arising from too many terror warnings. [Independent, 9/7/02, Reuters, 9/7/02]
2. Also in late July 2001, the US was given a “concrete warning” from Argentina’s Jewish community. “An attack of major proportions” was planned against either the US, Argentina, or France. The information came from an unidentified intelligence agency. [Forward, 5/31/02]
3. An undercover agent from Morocco successfully penetrated al-Qaeda. He learned that bin Laden was “very disappointed” that the 1993 bombing had not toppled the World Trade Center, and was planning “large scale operations in New York in the summer or fall of 2001.” He provided this information to the US in August 2001. [Agence France Presse, 11/22/01, International Herald Tribune, 5/21/02, London Times, 6/12/02]
4. Hasni Mubarak, President of Egypt, maintains that in the beginning of September 2001 Egyptian intelligence warned American officials that al-Qaeda was in the advanced stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, probably within the US. [AP, 12/7/01, New York Times, 6/4/02] He learned this information from an agent working inside al-Qaeda. [ABC News, 6/4/02]
Warnings the Attack Will Come from the Air
Many warnings specifically mentioned a threat coming from the air.
1. In 1999, British intelligence gave a secret report to the US embassy. The report stated that al-Qaeda had plans to use “commercial aircraft” in “unconventional ways,”“possibly as flying bombs.” [Sunday Times, 6/9/02] On July 16, 2001, British intelligence passed a message to the US that al-Qaeda was in “the final stages” of preparing a terrorist attack in Western countries. [London Times, 6/14/02] In early August, the British gave another warning, telling the US to expect multiple airline
s3.amazonaws.com...
... And they just so happened to pull all of that off on the SAME DAY that NORAD was conducting drills on the EXACT SAME THING happening
The military conducts drills all the time and we don't shut down our air defenses because of drills.Our air defense is a 24/7 operation. Now, let's take a look at the number of drills that were performed before, and after 9/11.
PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT
Drill Date Scenario
1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into famous US building
2 White House, Richard Clarke 1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive, attack Washington DC
3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets, including WTC, MASCAL
4 Able Danger: DIA, US-SOCOM, LIWA Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy control)
5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy control)
6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?)
7 Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group (P2OG) unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy control)
8 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ, NYC October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane into UN HQ NYC
9 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ NYC October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes FedEx plane with WMD into UN HQ NYC
10 Pentagon MASCAL exercise Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon, MASCAL
11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio that had turned its transponder off
12 Positive Force ’01: NORAD plus a dozen agencies; worldwide April 17-26, 2001 COG; attacks on transportation; one scenario: terrorist group hijacking commercial airliner and flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack)
13 Unified Vision ’01: US JFCOM; US CENTCOM; US SOCOM: 40 agencies May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan (prepared Operation Enduring Freedom)
14 Red Ex (Recognition, Evaluation, and Decision-Making Exercise); NYC OEM; FDNY; NYPD; FEMA; FBI May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in New York City (WTC attack, demolition)
15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: US-Canada multi-agency drill; NORAD; SEADS; Coast Guard, Army, Navy June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based Expeditionary Connectivity Center (JBECC) mobile radar command center tested. (Pentagon attack)
16 Mall Strike 2001, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (near Shanksville); 600 local first responders and emergency managers June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination; (indoctrination of first responders).
17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field office, Miami-Dade County Police Department. Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over Florida
18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army Airfield helicopter base MASCAL June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon (indoctrination of first responders).
19 US Department of Transportation Hijacking Exercise August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis Management Center drilled hijacks; simulated cell phone calls.
20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San Francisco
PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT (continued)
Drill Date Scenario
21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin Po” to Seattle
22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up
23 NORAD SEADS NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from
Please tell us, how many drills were conducted? That is just half of the drills during that rough time frame because there were over forty such drills.
edit on 6-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: waypastvne
originally posted by: loveguy
I'd ask for an actual piece of wtc concrete flooring with pan to do the test, best there wasn't anything left to test?
We have exactly what you are asking for right here:
s3.amazonaws.com...
s3.amazonaws.com...
It contains samples from 3 floors with concrete, trusses, floorpans, and rebar .
Now what kind of test do you want to do ?
thanks for the reply.
would you mind embedding your links' images?
from what it looks thus far, anything I can put my physical hand to?
i can't exactly drop a thermal image from nasa, now can i?
originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: skyeagle409
yup there are quite a few statements that truthers will make because they heard it in a documentary or read about it online that are really huge mistakes or in some cases have been entirely fabricated but which they hold to be true because these "facts" fit with their cognitive bias towards 9/11
Like the Official Story. Biased is not the word. You OS'rs are really ignorant of the fact that whatever you say about 'truthers' you have to say exactly the same about yourselves.
We look for information from various sources. We do not accept that office fires destroyed 3 buildings.
Or that Boeing have never told us that their planes can fold their wings and tail or that Boeing aircraft are so tough they can bury themselves in the ground.
When we hear utter nonsense we ask questions. When you guys hear it you try your best to convince others to believe the utter nonsense!
The official story is utter nonsense! I choose however to look elsewhere for my information instead of being told what to believe by the same murderers that orchestrated 9/11.
a reply to: Nova937
Fire was responsible. That is reality and explains why after 14 years that is not one shred of evidence of an 9/11 inside job, which is supported by firefighters, demolition experts, architects, civil engineers and many other experts.
It was all very simple to understand, but let's take a look at what happened when a B-25 bomber slammed into the Empire State Building.
B-25 Bomber
B-25 Impact Hole
American Airlines B-757
American 77 Impact Damage
As you can plainly see, that little hole on the facade of the Empire State Building is much too small for an B-25 ri enter with its, so what do think happened to the wings of that bomber when it slammed into the Empire State Building?
What is truly nonsense are the hoaxed and bogus videos that you have been posting that were debunked years ago. Just to let you know that nano-thermite and thermite were all debunked years ago when it was determined that thermite was incapable of bringing down the WTC buildings.
We look for information from various sources. We do not accept that office fires destroyed 3 buildings.
Fire was responsible. That is reality and explains why after 14 years that is not one shred of evidence of an 9/11 inside job, which is supported by firefighters, demolition experts, architects, civil engineers and many other experts.
Or that Boeing have never told us that their planes can fold their wings and tail or that Boeing aircraft are so tough they can bury themselves in the ground.
It was all very simple to understand, but let's take a look at what happened when a B-25 bomber slammed into the Empire State Building.
B-25 Bomber
B-25 Impact Hole
American Airlines B-757
American 77 Impact Damage
As you can plainly see, that little hole on the facade of the Empire State Building is much too small for an B-25 ri enter with its, so what do think happened to the wings of that bomber when it slammed into the Empire State Building?
The official story is utter nonsense! I
What is truly nonsense are the hoaxed and bogus videos that you have been posting that were debunked years ago. Just to let you know that nano-thermite and thermite were all debunked years ago when it was determined that thermite was incapable of bringing down the WTC buildings.
edit on 7-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: skyeagle409
You keep repeating the Official Story but there are more people in the World that don't believe the OS (For obvious reasons) than there are that have fallen for it.
And there is loads of evidence of an 9/11 inside job, which is supported by fire-fighters, demolition experts, architects, civil engineers and many other experts. Thousands of them!
And Millions of people that support them.
The percentage of experts and witnesses that say Explosives were used and not the silly fire story far far outweighs the OS people!
Some people are not so gullible!!
You keep repeating the Official Story but there are more people in the World that don't believe the OS (For obvious reasons) than there are that have fallen for it.
And there is loads of evidence of an 9/11 inside job, which is supported by fire-fighters, demolition experts, architects, civil engineers and many other experts. Thousands of them!
And Millions of people that support them.
The percentage of experts and witnesses that say Explosives were used and not the silly fire story far far outweighs the OS people!
Some people are not so gullible!!
a reply to: Nova937
Actually....I would say that pretty much everyone who believes the inside job crap....are pretty gullible. Look at your previous post.
" We do not accept that office fires destroyed 3 buildings."
You should. Office fires, are why they coat the structural steel with fireproofing. If there was absolutely no danger from an "office" fire, why go to the time and expense to coat the steel in foam?
"Or that Boeing have never told us that their planes can fold their wings and tail or that Boeing aircraft are so tough they can bury themselves in the ground."
And, your training in aviation is...what? Obviously you have none in accident investigation. Because, NONE of the aircraft that day "folded" their wings. Not even Flight 77...its wings left an impact zone more than 90 feet long at the Pentagon.
So yes, people who believe the stuff you have posted......have shown themselves to be pretty gullible.
Actually....I would say that pretty much everyone who believes the inside job crap....are pretty gullible. Look at your previous post.
" We do not accept that office fires destroyed 3 buildings."
You should. Office fires, are why they coat the structural steel with fireproofing. If there was absolutely no danger from an "office" fire, why go to the time and expense to coat the steel in foam?
"Or that Boeing have never told us that their planes can fold their wings and tail or that Boeing aircraft are so tough they can bury themselves in the ground."
And, your training in aviation is...what? Obviously you have none in accident investigation. Because, NONE of the aircraft that day "folded" their wings. Not even Flight 77...its wings left an impact zone more than 90 feet long at the Pentagon.
So yes, people who believe the stuff you have posted......have shown themselves to be pretty gullible.
a reply to: cardinalfan0596
What impact zone? A 16 foot wide hole was all that was left before the roof collapsed 45 minutes later. Please don't make up stories as you go along.
Office fires DON'T melt Steel.
I'm not going to say gullible anymore. That just creates animosity during a discussion.
Difference of opinion will suffice!
But when it comes to 9/11 there are a lot of questions and very little answers. Thousands of Witnesses have tld a different story because they were there. Thousands of experts in their respected fields have said the opposite of the OS and are calling for a new investigation and I like others agree. But it will be difficult to investigate because all the evidence has been destroyed.
Why would they destroy all the evidence so quickly if they wanted to make sure people believed Office fires melted the steel columns?
Simple questions for 9/11 OS believers:
9/11 - The Basic Questions
1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial airlines, citing an unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
3. Why did FEMA lie about their presence in New York on 9/11?
4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of the classroom?
5. Why did George H.W. Bush meet bin Laden's brother on 9/11?
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the flights all use the term boxcutters?
7. Where are the flight recorders?
8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live camera?
10 Why was security meeting scheduled for 9/11 cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the airports so quickly?
13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
15. How extensive was the relationship between the Taliban, the ISI and the CIA?
16. What exactly was the role of Henry Kissinger at UNOCAL?
17. When was it decided to cancel building a pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan?
18. Why did the FBI in 1996 close the files to investigate Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington?
19. Why did .Bush stop inquiries into terrorist connections of the Bin Laden family in early 2001?
20. Who made the decision to have John O'Neill stop investigating Al-qeada accounts?
21. Who gave the decision to give him a security job at the World Trade Center?
22. Did John O'Neill meet anyone of the FEMA in the night of September 10th?
23. What about media reports that hijackers bought tickets for flights scheduled after Sept. 11?
24. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appear on the passenger lists?
25. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
26. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?
27. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call relatives?
28. How did the hijackers change the flight plan without law enforcement or the military try to stop them?
29. How did a hijackers passport miraculously appear near the WTC? Who found it and what time?
30. How could the FBI distinguish between "regular" Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights?
31. Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board any of these flights?
32. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking for Muslim names and label them as hijackers? MOHAMMED ATTA
33. Did the Florida police provide information that Atta was searched because of 1) an expired Visa, 2) driving a car without a license, 3) because of an incident at Miami Airport?
34. Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the employees didn't put it on board?
35. Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was his bag?
36. Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that he would commit suicide?
37. Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental car?
38. When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
39. Did Atta leave the US while in training and then return?
40. Why did Atta decide to study at Opa Locka, a famous hub of 6 Navy training bases and includes government partners like U.S. Coast Guard Air Station, Police (Miami-Dade) Aviation Unit?
41. Why was Atta allowed to study since he was stopped by the police for driving without a license and also for violating his visa?
THE BLACK BOXES AND CRASH VIDEO
42. Why were the Black Boxes never recovered ?
43. Why didn't the FBI release the air traffic controller's protocols?
44. Why did the FBI not release the Flight Data Recorder info?
THE HIJACKERS
45. How did the FBI receive a tip from a passenger who boarded a different plane and reached his destination safely that he had a confrontation with two ME men at the Logan airport in Boston?
46. Who tipped the FBI to storm the Westin Hotel in Boston on September 12th?
47. Where did the photos of all 19 hijackers come from?
48. How were all hijackers identified just 2 days after the attack?
Next:
its wings left an impact zone more than 90 feet long at the Pentagon.
What impact zone? A 16 foot wide hole was all that was left before the roof collapsed 45 minutes later. Please don't make up stories as you go along.
Office fires DON'T melt Steel.
I'm not going to say gullible anymore. That just creates animosity during a discussion.
Difference of opinion will suffice!
But when it comes to 9/11 there are a lot of questions and very little answers. Thousands of Witnesses have tld a different story because they were there. Thousands of experts in their respected fields have said the opposite of the OS and are calling for a new investigation and I like others agree. But it will be difficult to investigate because all the evidence has been destroyed.
Why would they destroy all the evidence so quickly if they wanted to make sure people believed Office fires melted the steel columns?
Simple questions for 9/11 OS believers:
9/11 - The Basic Questions
1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial airlines, citing an unidentified "threat" in July 2001?
3. Why did FEMA lie about their presence in New York on 9/11?
4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of the classroom?
5. Why did George H.W. Bush meet bin Laden's brother on 9/11?
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the flights all use the term boxcutters?
7. Where are the flight recorders?
8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live camera?
10 Why was security meeting scheduled for 9/11 cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
11. How did they come up with the "culprits" so quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the airports so quickly?
13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
15. How extensive was the relationship between the Taliban, the ISI and the CIA?
16. What exactly was the role of Henry Kissinger at UNOCAL?
17. When was it decided to cancel building a pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan?
18. Why did the FBI in 1996 close the files to investigate Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington?
19. Why did .Bush stop inquiries into terrorist connections of the Bin Laden family in early 2001?
20. Who made the decision to have John O'Neill stop investigating Al-qeada accounts?
21. Who gave the decision to give him a security job at the World Trade Center?
22. Did John O'Neill meet anyone of the FEMA in the night of September 10th?
23. What about media reports that hijackers bought tickets for flights scheduled after Sept. 11?
24. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appear on the passenger lists?
25. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
26. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?
27. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call relatives?
28. How did the hijackers change the flight plan without law enforcement or the military try to stop them?
29. How did a hijackers passport miraculously appear near the WTC? Who found it and what time?
30. How could the FBI distinguish between "regular" Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights?
31. Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board any of these flights?
32. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking for Muslim names and label them as hijackers? MOHAMMED ATTA
33. Did the Florida police provide information that Atta was searched because of 1) an expired Visa, 2) driving a car without a license, 3) because of an incident at Miami Airport?
34. Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the employees didn't put it on board?
35. Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was his bag?
36. Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that he would commit suicide?
37. Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental car?
38. When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
39. Did Atta leave the US while in training and then return?
40. Why did Atta decide to study at Opa Locka, a famous hub of 6 Navy training bases and includes government partners like U.S. Coast Guard Air Station, Police (Miami-Dade) Aviation Unit?
41. Why was Atta allowed to study since he was stopped by the police for driving without a license and also for violating his visa?
THE BLACK BOXES AND CRASH VIDEO
42. Why were the Black Boxes never recovered ?
43. Why didn't the FBI release the air traffic controller's protocols?
44. Why did the FBI not release the Flight Data Recorder info?
THE HIJACKERS
45. How did the FBI receive a tip from a passenger who boarded a different plane and reached his destination safely that he had a confrontation with two ME men at the Logan airport in Boston?
46. Who tipped the FBI to storm the Westin Hotel in Boston on September 12th?
47. Where did the photos of all 19 hijackers come from?
48. How were all hijackers identified just 2 days after the attack?
Next:
Others:
1. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation”s capital?
2. Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001?
3. What did officials know? How did they know it?
a. Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the “Big Wedding”), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.
b. Various individuals came into possession of specific advance knowledge, and some of them tried to warn the US prior to September 11th.
c. Certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.
4. Able Danger, Plus – Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers
a. The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities – including the CIA, the US military”s “Able Danger” program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.
b.Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another coincidence?
5. Obstruction of FBI Investigations prior to 9/11
A group of FBI officials in New York systematically suppressed field investigations of potential terrorists that might have uncovered the alleged hijackers – as the Moussaoui case once again showed. The stories of Sibel Edmonds, Robert Wright, Coleen Rowley and Harry Samit, the “Phoenix Memo,” David Schippers, the 199i orders restricting investigations, the Bush administration”s order to back off the Bin Ladin family, the reaction to the “Bojinka” plot, and John O”Neil do not, when considered in sum, indicate mere incompetence, but high-level corruption and protection of criminal networks, including the network of the alleged 9/11 conspirators. (Nearly all of these examples were omitted from or relegated to fleeting footnotes in /11 Commission Report.)
6. Insider Trading
a. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally – including but not limited to “put options” placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London. See Billions in Pre-911 Insider Trading Profits Leaves a Hot Trail and Criminal Insider Trading leads directly to CIA.
b. Initial reports on these trades, such as Profiting from Disaster and Suspicious Trading, were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).
c. In addition, suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks. The German firm, Convar, recovered financial data from hard drives recovered from Ground Zero although the Commission published this FBI briefing on trading in which agents expressed a lack of knowledge and doubt about the data recovery long after the data was transmitted to the FBI. Here is an update on Oh the places you go (when you follow the money).
d. See this interview with Bill Bergman who worked at the Chicago Federal Reserve for over 13 years as an economist and financial markets policy analyst. He was fired when he raised concerns about unusual currency transactions pre- 9-11.
7. Who were the perpetrators?
a. Much of the evidence establishing who did the crime is dubious and miraculous: bags full of incriminating material that happened to miss the flight or were left in a van; the “magic passport” of an alleged hijacker, found at Ground Zero; documents found at motels where the alleged perpetrators had stayed days and weeks before 9/11.
b. The identities of the alleged hijackers remain unresolved, there are contradictions in official accounts of their actions and travels, and there is evidence several of them had “doubles,” all of which is omitted from official investigations.
c. What happened to initial claims by the government that 50 people involved in the attacks had been identified, including the 19 alleged hijackers, with 10 still at large (suggesting that 20 had been apprehended)? www.chicagotribune.com...
d. How did they enter the US? Where did they get their VISAS?
8. Who Is Osama Bin Laden?
a. Who judges which of the many conflicting and dubious statements and videos attributed to Osama Bin Ladin are genuine, and which are fake? The most important Osama Bin Ladin video (Nov. 2001), in which he supposedly confesses to masterminding 9/11, appears to be a fake. In any event, the State Department”s translation of it is fraudulent.
b. Did Osama Bin Laden visit Dubai and meet a CIA agent in July 2001 (Le Figaro)? Was he receiving dialysis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of September 10, 2001 (CBS)?
c. Whether by Bush or Clinton: Why is Osama always allowed to escape?
d. The terror network associated with Osama, known as the “base” (al-Qaeda), originated in the CIA-sponsored 1980s anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan. When did this network stop serving as an asset to covert operations by US intelligence and allied agencies? What were its operatives doing in Kosovo, Bosnia and Chechnya in the years prior to 9/11?
9. All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up
a. 911Truth.Org broke the story that Airplane black boxes were found at Ground Zero, according to two first responders and an unnamed NTSB official, but they were “disappeared” and their existence is denied in /11 Commission Report.
b. US officials consistently suppressed and destroyed evidence (like the tapes recorded by air traffic controllers who handled the New York flights). NEADS recordings damaged during transcription.
c. Whistleblowers (like Sibel Edmonds and Anthony Shaffer) were intimidated, gagged and sanctioned, sending a clear signal to others who might be thinking about speaking out.
d. Officials who “failed” (like Myers and Eberhard, as well as Frasca, Maltbie and Bowman of the FBI) were given promotions.
10. Air Defense Failures
a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights.
b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies – NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission – gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.
c. Was there an air defense standdown?
More:
1. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation”s capital?
2. Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001?
3. What did officials know? How did they know it?
a. Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the “Big Wedding”), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.
b. Various individuals came into possession of specific advance knowledge, and some of them tried to warn the US prior to September 11th.
c. Certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.
4. Able Danger, Plus – Surveillance of Alleged Hijackers
a. The men identified as the 9/11 ringleaders were under surveillance for years beforehand, on the suspicion they were terrorists, by a variety of US and allied authorities – including the CIA, the US military”s “Able Danger” program, the German authorities, Israeli intelligence and others.
b.Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another coincidence?
5. Obstruction of FBI Investigations prior to 9/11
A group of FBI officials in New York systematically suppressed field investigations of potential terrorists that might have uncovered the alleged hijackers – as the Moussaoui case once again showed. The stories of Sibel Edmonds, Robert Wright, Coleen Rowley and Harry Samit, the “Phoenix Memo,” David Schippers, the 199i orders restricting investigations, the Bush administration”s order to back off the Bin Ladin family, the reaction to the “Bojinka” plot, and John O”Neil do not, when considered in sum, indicate mere incompetence, but high-level corruption and protection of criminal networks, including the network of the alleged 9/11 conspirators. (Nearly all of these examples were omitted from or relegated to fleeting footnotes in /11 Commission Report.)
6. Insider Trading
a. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally – including but not limited to “put options” placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London. See Billions in Pre-911 Insider Trading Profits Leaves a Hot Trail and Criminal Insider Trading leads directly to CIA.
b. Initial reports on these trades, such as Profiting from Disaster and Suspicious Trading, were suppressed and forgotten, and only years later did the 9/11 Commission and SEC provide a partial, but untenable explanation for only a small number of transactions (covering only the airline put options through the Chicago Board of Exchange).
c. In addition, suspicious monetary transactions worth hundreds of millions were conducted through offices at the Twin Towers during the actual attacks. The German firm, Convar, recovered financial data from hard drives recovered from Ground Zero although the Commission published this FBI briefing on trading in which agents expressed a lack of knowledge and doubt about the data recovery long after the data was transmitted to the FBI. Here is an update on Oh the places you go (when you follow the money).
d. See this interview with Bill Bergman who worked at the Chicago Federal Reserve for over 13 years as an economist and financial markets policy analyst. He was fired when he raised concerns about unusual currency transactions pre- 9-11.
7. Who were the perpetrators?
a. Much of the evidence establishing who did the crime is dubious and miraculous: bags full of incriminating material that happened to miss the flight or were left in a van; the “magic passport” of an alleged hijacker, found at Ground Zero; documents found at motels where the alleged perpetrators had stayed days and weeks before 9/11.
b. The identities of the alleged hijackers remain unresolved, there are contradictions in official accounts of their actions and travels, and there is evidence several of them had “doubles,” all of which is omitted from official investigations.
c. What happened to initial claims by the government that 50 people involved in the attacks had been identified, including the 19 alleged hijackers, with 10 still at large (suggesting that 20 had been apprehended)? www.chicagotribune.com...
d. How did they enter the US? Where did they get their VISAS?
8. Who Is Osama Bin Laden?
a. Who judges which of the many conflicting and dubious statements and videos attributed to Osama Bin Ladin are genuine, and which are fake? The most important Osama Bin Ladin video (Nov. 2001), in which he supposedly confesses to masterminding 9/11, appears to be a fake. In any event, the State Department”s translation of it is fraudulent.
b. Did Osama Bin Laden visit Dubai and meet a CIA agent in July 2001 (Le Figaro)? Was he receiving dialysis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of September 10, 2001 (CBS)?
c. Whether by Bush or Clinton: Why is Osama always allowed to escape?
d. The terror network associated with Osama, known as the “base” (al-Qaeda), originated in the CIA-sponsored 1980s anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan. When did this network stop serving as an asset to covert operations by US intelligence and allied agencies? What were its operatives doing in Kosovo, Bosnia and Chechnya in the years prior to 9/11?
9. All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up
a. 911Truth.Org broke the story that Airplane black boxes were found at Ground Zero, according to two first responders and an unnamed NTSB official, but they were “disappeared” and their existence is denied in /11 Commission Report.
b. US officials consistently suppressed and destroyed evidence (like the tapes recorded by air traffic controllers who handled the New York flights). NEADS recordings damaged during transcription.
c. Whistleblowers (like Sibel Edmonds and Anthony Shaffer) were intimidated, gagged and sanctioned, sending a clear signal to others who might be thinking about speaking out.
d. Officials who “failed” (like Myers and Eberhard, as well as Frasca, Maltbie and Bowman of the FBI) were given promotions.
10. Air Defense Failures
a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights.
b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies – NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission – gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.
c. Was there an air defense standdown?
More:
a reply to: Nova937
After 14 years, the OS remains standing to this very day, which on the other hand, 9/11 conspiracy theories have been crashing in flames over the years.
You keep repeating the Official Story but there are more people in the World that don't believe the OS (For obvious reasons) than there are that have fallen for it.
After 14 years, the OS remains standing to this very day, which on the other hand, 9/11 conspiracy theories have been crashing in flames over the years.
1. Wargames
a. US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack – including multiple hijackings, suicide crashbombings, and a strike on the Pentagon.
b. The multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were “real world or exercise.” Did wargames serve as the cover for air defense sabotage, and/or the execution of an “inside job”?
2. All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up
a. 911Truth.Org broke the story that Airplane black boxes were found at Ground Zero, according to two first responders and an unnamed NTSB official, but they were “disappeared” and their existence is denied in /11 Commission Report.
b. US officials consistently suppressed and destroyed evidence (like the tapes recorded by air traffic controllers who handled the New York flights). NEADS recordings damaged during transcription.
c. Whistleblowers (like Sibel Edmonds and Anthony Shaffer) were intimidated, gagged and sanctioned, sending a clear signal to others who might be thinking about speaking out.
d. Officials who “failed” (like Myers and Eberhard, as well as Frasca, Maltbie and Bowman of the FBI) were given promotions.
3. Poisoning New York
The White House deliberately pressured the EPA into giving false public assurances that the toxic air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. This knowingly contributed to an as-yet unknown number of health cases and fatalities, and demonstrates that the administration does consider the lives of American citizens to be expendable on behalf of certain interests.
4. Disposing of the Crime Scene
The rapid and illegal scrapping of the WTC ruins at Ground Zero disposed of almost all of the structural steel indispensable to any investigation of the collapse mechanics. (See also item no. 23, below.)
5. Anthrax
Mailings of weapons-grade anthrax – which caused a practical suspension of the 9/11 investigations – were traced back to US military stock. Soon after the attacks began in October 2001, the FBI approved the destruction of the original samples of the Ames strain, disposing of perhaps the most important evidence in identifying the source of the pathogens used in the mailings. Were the anthrax attacks timed to coincide with the Afghanistan invasion? Why were the letters sent only to media figures and to the leaders of the opposition in the Senate (who had just raised objections to the USA PATRIOT Act)? Calls were issued to investigate the investigators.
6. The Stonewall
a. Colin Powell promised a “white paper” from the State Department to establish the authorship of the attacks by al-Qaeda. This was never forthcoming, and was instead replaced by a paper from Tony Blair, which presented only circumstantial evidence, with very few points actually relating to September 11th.
b. Bush and Cheney pressured the (freshly-anthraxed) leadership of the Congressional opposition into delaying the 9/11 investigation for months. The administration fought against the creation of an independent investigation for more than a year.
c. The White House thereupon attempted to appoint Henry Kissinger as the chief investigator, and acted to underfund and obstruct the 9/11 Commission.
7. A Record of Official Lies
a. “No one could have imagined planes into buildings” – a transparent falsehood upheld repeatedly by Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush.
b. “Iraq was connected to 9/11″ – The most “outrageous conspiracy theory” of all, with the most disastrous impact.
c. CIA misleads FBI about hijackers in US.
8. Pakistani Connection – Congressional Connection
a. The Pakistani intelligence agency ISI, creator of the Taliban and close ally to both the CIA and “al-Qaeda,” allegedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta just prior to September 11th, reportedly through the ISI asset Omar Saeed Sheikh (later arrested for the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was investigating ISI connections to “al-Qaeda.”)
b. This was ignored by the congressional 9/11 investigation, although the senator and congressman who ran the probe (Bob Graham and Porter Goss) were meeting with the ISI chief, Mahmud Ahmed, on Capitol Hill on the morning of September 11th.
c. About 25 percent of the report of the Congressional Joint Inquiry was redacted, including long passages regarding how the attack (or the network allegedly behind it) was financed. Graham later said foreign allies were involved in financing the alleged terror network, but that this would only come out in 30 years.
9. 9/11 Commission:
a. The September 11th families who fought for and gained an independent investigation (the 9/11 Commission) posed 400-plus questions, which the 9/11 Commission adopted as its roadmap. The vast majority of these questions were completely ignored in the Commission hearings and the final report.
b. The membership and staff of the 9/11 Commission displayed awesome conflicts of interest. The families called for the resignation of Executive Director Philip Zelikow, a Bush administration member and close associate of “star witness” Condoleezza Rice, and were snubbed. Commission member Max Cleland resigned, condemning the entire exercise as a “scam” and “whitewash.”
c./11 Commission Report is notable mainly for its contradictions, obvious omissions, distortions and outright falsehoods – ignoring anything incompatible with the official story, banishing the issues to footnotes, and even dismissing the still-unresolved question of who financed 9/11 as being “of little practical significance.”
9. Crown Witnesses Held at Undisclosed Locations
The alleged masterminds of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed (KSM) and Ramzi Binalshibh, are reported to have been captured in 2002 and 2003, although one Pakistani newspaper said KSM was killed in an attempted capture. They have been held at undisclosed locations and their supposed testimonies, as provided in transcript form by the government, form much of the basis for /11 Commission Report (although the Commission”s request to see them in person was denied). After holding them for years, why doesn”t the government produce these men and put them to trial?
10. NIST Omissions
After the destruction of the WTC structural steel, the official Twin Towers collapse investigation was left with almost no forensic evidence, and thus could only provide dubious computer models of ultimately unprovable hypotheses. It failed to even test for the possibility of explosives. (Why not clear this up?)
More:
a. US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack – including multiple hijackings, suicide crashbombings, and a strike on the Pentagon.
b. The multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were “real world or exercise.” Did wargames serve as the cover for air defense sabotage, and/or the execution of an “inside job”?
2. All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up
a. 911Truth.Org broke the story that Airplane black boxes were found at Ground Zero, according to two first responders and an unnamed NTSB official, but they were “disappeared” and their existence is denied in /11 Commission Report.
b. US officials consistently suppressed and destroyed evidence (like the tapes recorded by air traffic controllers who handled the New York flights). NEADS recordings damaged during transcription.
c. Whistleblowers (like Sibel Edmonds and Anthony Shaffer) were intimidated, gagged and sanctioned, sending a clear signal to others who might be thinking about speaking out.
d. Officials who “failed” (like Myers and Eberhard, as well as Frasca, Maltbie and Bowman of the FBI) were given promotions.
3. Poisoning New York
The White House deliberately pressured the EPA into giving false public assurances that the toxic air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. This knowingly contributed to an as-yet unknown number of health cases and fatalities, and demonstrates that the administration does consider the lives of American citizens to be expendable on behalf of certain interests.
4. Disposing of the Crime Scene
The rapid and illegal scrapping of the WTC ruins at Ground Zero disposed of almost all of the structural steel indispensable to any investigation of the collapse mechanics. (See also item no. 23, below.)
5. Anthrax
Mailings of weapons-grade anthrax – which caused a practical suspension of the 9/11 investigations – were traced back to US military stock. Soon after the attacks began in October 2001, the FBI approved the destruction of the original samples of the Ames strain, disposing of perhaps the most important evidence in identifying the source of the pathogens used in the mailings. Were the anthrax attacks timed to coincide with the Afghanistan invasion? Why were the letters sent only to media figures and to the leaders of the opposition in the Senate (who had just raised objections to the USA PATRIOT Act)? Calls were issued to investigate the investigators.
6. The Stonewall
a. Colin Powell promised a “white paper” from the State Department to establish the authorship of the attacks by al-Qaeda. This was never forthcoming, and was instead replaced by a paper from Tony Blair, which presented only circumstantial evidence, with very few points actually relating to September 11th.
b. Bush and Cheney pressured the (freshly-anthraxed) leadership of the Congressional opposition into delaying the 9/11 investigation for months. The administration fought against the creation of an independent investigation for more than a year.
c. The White House thereupon attempted to appoint Henry Kissinger as the chief investigator, and acted to underfund and obstruct the 9/11 Commission.
7. A Record of Official Lies
a. “No one could have imagined planes into buildings” – a transparent falsehood upheld repeatedly by Rice, Rumsfeld and Bush.
b. “Iraq was connected to 9/11″ – The most “outrageous conspiracy theory” of all, with the most disastrous impact.
c. CIA misleads FBI about hijackers in US.
8. Pakistani Connection – Congressional Connection
a. The Pakistani intelligence agency ISI, creator of the Taliban and close ally to both the CIA and “al-Qaeda,” allegedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta just prior to September 11th, reportedly through the ISI asset Omar Saeed Sheikh (later arrested for the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was investigating ISI connections to “al-Qaeda.”)
b. This was ignored by the congressional 9/11 investigation, although the senator and congressman who ran the probe (Bob Graham and Porter Goss) were meeting with the ISI chief, Mahmud Ahmed, on Capitol Hill on the morning of September 11th.
c. About 25 percent of the report of the Congressional Joint Inquiry was redacted, including long passages regarding how the attack (or the network allegedly behind it) was financed. Graham later said foreign allies were involved in financing the alleged terror network, but that this would only come out in 30 years.
9. 9/11 Commission:
a. The September 11th families who fought for and gained an independent investigation (the 9/11 Commission) posed 400-plus questions, which the 9/11 Commission adopted as its roadmap. The vast majority of these questions were completely ignored in the Commission hearings and the final report.
b. The membership and staff of the 9/11 Commission displayed awesome conflicts of interest. The families called for the resignation of Executive Director Philip Zelikow, a Bush administration member and close associate of “star witness” Condoleezza Rice, and were snubbed. Commission member Max Cleland resigned, condemning the entire exercise as a “scam” and “whitewash.”
c./11 Commission Report is notable mainly for its contradictions, obvious omissions, distortions and outright falsehoods – ignoring anything incompatible with the official story, banishing the issues to footnotes, and even dismissing the still-unresolved question of who financed 9/11 as being “of little practical significance.”
9. Crown Witnesses Held at Undisclosed Locations
The alleged masterminds of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed (KSM) and Ramzi Binalshibh, are reported to have been captured in 2002 and 2003, although one Pakistani newspaper said KSM was killed in an attempted capture. They have been held at undisclosed locations and their supposed testimonies, as provided in transcript form by the government, form much of the basis for /11 Commission Report (although the Commission”s request to see them in person was denied). After holding them for years, why doesn”t the government produce these men and put them to trial?
10. NIST Omissions
After the destruction of the WTC structural steel, the official Twin Towers collapse investigation was left with almost no forensic evidence, and thus could only provide dubious computer models of ultimately unprovable hypotheses. It failed to even test for the possibility of explosives. (Why not clear this up?)
More:
GEOPOLITICS, TIMING AND POSSIBLE MOTIVES
1. “The Great Game”
The Afghanistan invasion was ready for Bush”s go-ahead on September 9, 2001, with US and UK force deployments to the region already in place or underway. This followed the failure earlier that year of backdoor diplomacy with the Taliban (including payments of $125 million in US government aid to Afghanistan), in an attempt to secure a unity government for that country as a prerequisite to a Central Asian pipeline deal.
2. The Need for a “New Pearl Harbor”
Principals in US foreign policy under the current Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the “Project for a New American Century,” and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of “regime change.” After 9/11, they lost no time in their attempt to tie Iraq to the attacks.
3. Perpetual “War on Terror”
9/11 is supposed to provide carte-blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual “War on Terror,” against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chooses to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11.
4. Attacking the Constitution
a. The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the “Shadow Government” were developed long before 9/11, and plans for rounding up dissidents as a means for suppressing civil disturbance have been in the works for decades.
b. 9/11 was used as the pretext to create a new, extra-constitutional executive authority to declare anyone an “enemy combatant” (including American citizens), to detain persons indefinitely without habeas corpus, and to “render” such persons to secret prisons where torture is practiced.
5. Legal Trillions
9/11 triggers a predictable shift of public spending to war, and boosts public and private spending in the “new” New Economy of “Homeland Security,” biometrics, universal surveillance, prisons, civil defense, secured enclaves, security,
etc.
6. Plundered Trillions?
On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a “war on waste” after an internal audit found that the Pentagon was “missing” 2.3 trillion dollars in unaccounted assets. On September 11th, this was as good as forgotten.
7. Did 9/11 prevent a stock market crash?
Did anyone benefit from the destruction of the Securities and Exchange Commission offices at WTC 7, and the resultant crippling of hundreds of fraud investigations?
8. Resource Wars
a. What was discussed in the Energy Task Force meetings under Dick Cheney in 2001? Why is the documentation of these meetings still being suppressed?
b. Is Peak Oil a motive for 9/11 as inside job?
9. The “Little Game”
Why was the WTC privatized just before its destruction?
HISTORY
1. “Al-CIA-da?”
The longstanding relationship between US intelligence networks and radical Islamists, including the network surrounding Osama Bin Ladin. (See also point 13d.)
2. Historical Precedents for “Synthetic Terror”
a. In the past many states, including the US government, have sponsored attacks on their own people, fabricated the “cause for war,” created (and armed) their own enemies of convenience, and sacrificed their own citizens for “reasons of state.”
b.Was 9/11 an update of the Pentagon-approved “Project Northwoods” plan for conducting self-inflicted, false-flag terror attacks in the United States, and blaming them on a foreign enemy?
3. Secret Government
a. The record of criminality and sponsorship of coups around the world by the covert networks based within the US intelligence complex.
b. Specifically also: The evidence of crime by Bush administration principals and their associates, from October Surprise to Iran-Contra and the S&L plunder to PNAC, Enron/Halliburton and beyond.
RELATED MOVEMENTS AND PARALLEL ISSUES
Ground Zero aftermath movements:
– Justice for the air-poisoning cover-up (wtceo.org)
– “Radio Silence” (radiosilencefdny.com)
– Skyscraper Safety (www.skyscrapersafety.org).
Election fraud and black box voting, 2000 to 2004. (BlackBoxVoting.org)
Lies to justify the invasion of Iraq. (afterdowningstreet.org)
Use of depleted uranium and its multi-generational consequences on human health and the environment.
Longstanding development of contingency plans for civil disturbance and military rule in the USA (See, “The War at Home”)
Oklahoma City Truth movement. (Offline, but not forgotten – May 9, 2008!)
Whether you call it “Globalization” or “The New World Order” – An unsustainable system of permanent growth ultimately requires warfare, fraud, and mass manipulation.
GOING FORWARD …
“But an inside job would involve thousands of people! How could they keep a secret?” Counter-arguments, red herrings, speculations and false information.
Selected essays, books and websites that make the case for 9/11 as inside job.
Demanding a real investigation of the September crimes – Not just a patriotic duty, but a matter of survival.
1. “The Great Game”
The Afghanistan invasion was ready for Bush”s go-ahead on September 9, 2001, with US and UK force deployments to the region already in place or underway. This followed the failure earlier that year of backdoor diplomacy with the Taliban (including payments of $125 million in US government aid to Afghanistan), in an attempt to secure a unity government for that country as a prerequisite to a Central Asian pipeline deal.
2. The Need for a “New Pearl Harbor”
Principals in US foreign policy under the current Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the “Project for a New American Century,” and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of “regime change.” After 9/11, they lost no time in their attempt to tie Iraq to the attacks.
3. Perpetual “War on Terror”
9/11 is supposed to provide carte-blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual “War on Terror,” against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chooses to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11.
4. Attacking the Constitution
a. The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the “Shadow Government” were developed long before 9/11, and plans for rounding up dissidents as a means for suppressing civil disturbance have been in the works for decades.
b. 9/11 was used as the pretext to create a new, extra-constitutional executive authority to declare anyone an “enemy combatant” (including American citizens), to detain persons indefinitely without habeas corpus, and to “render” such persons to secret prisons where torture is practiced.
5. Legal Trillions
9/11 triggers a predictable shift of public spending to war, and boosts public and private spending in the “new” New Economy of “Homeland Security,” biometrics, universal surveillance, prisons, civil defense, secured enclaves, security,
etc.
6. Plundered Trillions?
On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a “war on waste” after an internal audit found that the Pentagon was “missing” 2.3 trillion dollars in unaccounted assets. On September 11th, this was as good as forgotten.
7. Did 9/11 prevent a stock market crash?
Did anyone benefit from the destruction of the Securities and Exchange Commission offices at WTC 7, and the resultant crippling of hundreds of fraud investigations?
8. Resource Wars
a. What was discussed in the Energy Task Force meetings under Dick Cheney in 2001? Why is the documentation of these meetings still being suppressed?
b. Is Peak Oil a motive for 9/11 as inside job?
9. The “Little Game”
Why was the WTC privatized just before its destruction?
HISTORY
1. “Al-CIA-da?”
The longstanding relationship between US intelligence networks and radical Islamists, including the network surrounding Osama Bin Ladin. (See also point 13d.)
2. Historical Precedents for “Synthetic Terror”
a. In the past many states, including the US government, have sponsored attacks on their own people, fabricated the “cause for war,” created (and armed) their own enemies of convenience, and sacrificed their own citizens for “reasons of state.”
b.Was 9/11 an update of the Pentagon-approved “Project Northwoods” plan for conducting self-inflicted, false-flag terror attacks in the United States, and blaming them on a foreign enemy?
3. Secret Government
a. The record of criminality and sponsorship of coups around the world by the covert networks based within the US intelligence complex.
b. Specifically also: The evidence of crime by Bush administration principals and their associates, from October Surprise to Iran-Contra and the S&L plunder to PNAC, Enron/Halliburton and beyond.
RELATED MOVEMENTS AND PARALLEL ISSUES
Ground Zero aftermath movements:
– Justice for the air-poisoning cover-up (wtceo.org)
– “Radio Silence” (radiosilencefdny.com)
– Skyscraper Safety (www.skyscrapersafety.org).
Election fraud and black box voting, 2000 to 2004. (BlackBoxVoting.org)
Lies to justify the invasion of Iraq. (afterdowningstreet.org)
Use of depleted uranium and its multi-generational consequences on human health and the environment.
Longstanding development of contingency plans for civil disturbance and military rule in the USA (See, “The War at Home”)
Oklahoma City Truth movement. (Offline, but not forgotten – May 9, 2008!)
Whether you call it “Globalization” or “The New World Order” – An unsustainable system of permanent growth ultimately requires warfare, fraud, and mass manipulation.
GOING FORWARD …
“But an inside job would involve thousands of people! How could they keep a secret?” Counter-arguments, red herrings, speculations and false information.
Selected essays, books and websites that make the case for 9/11 as inside job.
Demanding a real investigation of the September crimes – Not just a patriotic duty, but a matter of survival.
edit on 8-8-2015 by Nova937
because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Nova937
Let's take a look here.
No one used cell phones at 30,000 feet. That story was made up and conspiracy theories took that bait and ran off with it. The upper altitude call were made on Airfones, not cell phones. However, there were cell phone calls at, and below, 5000 feet, where cell phones can operate. Check it out.
Only 2 Cell Phone Calls at 5000 feet
A number of countries around the world, issued warnings to the United States that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaedo would use hijack aircraft to kill thousands of people. Such warnings were issued as far back as 1995 from the Philippine government. Under the Bojinka Plot, CIA headquarters was to be targeted to be attacked by an aircraft.
The Bojinka Plot
International warnings that pointed toward Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, underlines the fact that 9/11 was not an inside job nor what others would call, a False Flag operation. The FBI and the CIA admitted that they dropped the ball. Bush and Rice are also to blame for not taking the warnings seriously enough.
In other words, Bush, Rice, the U.S. intelligence services and even the FAA, dropped the ball. However, such intelligence failures are not unique solely to the United States because other countries have suffered from their own intelligence failures as well.
1. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation”s capital?
Let's take a look here.
9/11 10th Anniversary: F-15 pilot
9-11 Fighter Pilot: We Wouldn't Have Shot Down Hijackers
113th Wing, Andrews AFB
"We've never been an air defense unit. We practice scrambles, we know how to do intercepts and other things, but there's a lot of protocol in the air defense business. We obviously didn't have that expertise...
Chief of Safety for the 113th Wing, Andrews AFB.
10:09 AM 1 minute, 57 seconds
"The fighter pilots do not know if they have permission to shoot down planes. A commander tells them they do not. (Warning: profanity at the end of the clip)"
www.nytimes.com...
In interviews with us, NEADS personnel expressed considerable confusion over the nature and effect of the order
The NEADS commander told us he did not pass along the order because he was unaware of its ramifications. Both the mission commander and the senior weapons director indicated they did not pass the order to the fighters circling Washington and New York because they were unsure how the pilots would, or should, proceed with this guidance.
...the Langley pilots did not know the threat they were facing, did not know where United 93 was located, and did not have shoot-down authorization before United 93 crashed.
govinfo.library.unt.edu...
2. Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001?
No one used cell phones at 30,000 feet. That story was made up and conspiracy theories took that bait and ran off with it. The upper altitude call were made on Airfones, not cell phones. However, there were cell phone calls at, and below, 5000 feet, where cell phones can operate. Check it out.
Only 2 Cell Phone Calls at 5000 feet
3. What did officials know? How did they know it?
A number of countries around the world, issued warnings to the United States that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaedo would use hijack aircraft to kill thousands of people. Such warnings were issued as far back as 1995 from the Philippine government. Under the Bojinka Plot, CIA headquarters was to be targeted to be attacked by an aircraft.
The Bojinka Plot
a. Multiple allied foreign agencies informed the US government of a coming attack in detail, including the manner and likely targets of the attack, the name of the operation (the “Big Wedding”), and the names of certain men later identified as being among the perpetrators.
International warnings that pointed toward Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, underlines the fact that 9/11 was not an inside job nor what others would call, a False Flag operation. The FBI and the CIA admitted that they dropped the ball. Bush and Rice are also to blame for not taking the warnings seriously enough.
CIA boss admits intelligence failures over 9/11 attacks
THE HEAD of the CIA yesterday admitted that his agents had flatly failed to penetrate the September 11 plot and said it would be at least five years before America developed the sort of intelligence capabilities to take on terrorists such asal-Qa'ida.
www.independent.ie...
9/11 commission faults U.S. intelligence
9/11 commission faults U.S. intelligence
U.S. intelligence gathering was fragmented and poorly coordinated before the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the 9/11 commission reported Wednesday, adding that it remains unclear how such crucial information is managed.
"A question remains: Who is in charge of intelligence?" reads the final line of a critical report by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, as the bipartisan 9/11 panel is formally known.
The report, examining the performance of the intelligence community, described a "loose collection" of intelligence agencies that often operated independently of one another with little communication or cooperation. And it faulted CIA Director George Tenet for not having a management strategy to battle terrorism before the 9/11 attacks.
www.cnn.com...:ALLPOLITICS
Pre-9/11 Missteps By FBI Detailed
The inability to detect the Sept. 11, 2001, hijacking plot amounts to a "significant failure" by the FBI and was caused in large part by "widespread and longstanding deficiencies" in the way the agency handled terrorism and intelligence cases, according to a report released yesterday.
In one particularly notable finding, the report by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine concluded that the FBI missed at least five chances to detect the presence of two of the suicide hijackers -- Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar -- after they first entered the United States in early 2000.
www.washingtonpost.com...
Intelligence Failures: The FBI, the CIA and 9/11 - with Amy Zegart
In her new book, Spying Blind: The CIA, the FBI, and the Origins of 9/11, Amy Zegart argues that many of the failures of the intelligence community in the months leading up to 9/11 can be attributed to an aging organizational structure that had not been updated or modified to deal with contemporary threats like global terrorism. Six years later, Zegart argues that all of the nation's worst intelligence deficiencies remain and with the recent passing of the 60 th anniversary of the CIA, the time is ripe for a reconsideration of the organizational weaknesses that have afflicted American intelligence agencies for decades and continue to stand in the way of reform.
FBI Intelligence Reform Since September 11
The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States have been labeled
as a major intelligence failure, similar in magnitude to that associated with the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.2 In response to criticisms of its role in this failure,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has introduced a series of reforms to
transform the bureau from a largely reactive law enforcement agency focused on
criminal investigations into a more mobile, agile, flexible, intelligence-driven3
agency that can prevent acts of terrorism.
fpc.state.gov...
In other words, Bush, Rice, the U.S. intelligence services and even the FAA, dropped the ball. However, such intelligence failures are not unique solely to the United States because other countries have suffered from their own intelligence failures as well.
edit on 8-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Nova937
And this post of yours, is full of falsehoods and misinformation. Again, an example of why I say people who believe the things you do are gullible.
" 1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks? "
We had 14 jets on alert that day...for the entire North American continent. And, when the transponders are shut off, it is nearly impossible to give an intercept vector.
"2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial airlines, citing an unidentified "threat" in July 2001? "
This one, is a flat out lie. He did not stop flying commercial airlines. If it was a personal trip, he flew commercial. If it was official, he flew on government planes. He spoke at an event at my church the third week of July 2001. We paid for his ticket and that of his bodyguard, for their flight on United.
"3. Why did FEMA lie about their presence in New York on 9/11? "
More misinformation. FEMA, had an field office in New York....so they were ALWAYS there.
"4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of the classroom? "
Dumbest move they could have made that day. There had already been one attempted breach of his security that morning by a "TV crew". So yeah, lets just hustle him right out of the building where there may or may not be an assassin waiting..OR, let's re-scout the area before we move him...since all of the attacks seem to be in New York City.
"
5. Why did George H.W. Bush meet bin Laden's brother on 9/11?"
He didn't. There was a meeting of Carlyle Group shareholders that day...so they were two people in a room with over 100 others. Not quite the face to face meeting you are suggesting.
"6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the flights all use the term boxcutters? "
Why wouldn't they use that term...if that is the weapons used? Again, its an attempt to create something out of nothing.
"[7. Where are the flight recorders?
Some were found, some were not. Flight recorders are not always recovered in airliner accidents. Again, trying to make something out of a relative nothing.
"
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live camera? "
He saw a news report about the first crash on TV. As many times as people ripped into Bush about his grammar...you expect him to be letter perfect that day......
"24. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appear on the passenger lists? "
Umm...they did. You refer to a story from CNN that gave a list of the victims. The manifests were submitted as evidence in the Zacarias Mossari trial..and the hijackers names, were all on them.
Moving on to your next post...
"
1. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation”s capital? "
Flat out lie. The 113th Fighter Wing of the DCANG, was NOT assigned to any alert duties. Furthermore, they had just returned from a training deployment and that Tuesday morning was the first day back at work for most of them. So, kind of hard to launch airplanes that are not ready. Not to mention, it was less than forty minutes from the time that it was realized as an attack to the time Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. NOT an hour and 20 minutes.
"Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001?"
Well, since the AIRFONES on the jets were used for the most part, this one does not matter. However of the three cellphone calls that DID go through that day, each of them, were made at a point that the airliner was under 5,000 feet.
EACH one of your posts relies on lies, misdirection and disinformation. Again, showing just how gullible people get. They read something on the internet and swallow every last bit of it.
And this post of yours, is full of falsehoods and misinformation. Again, an example of why I say people who believe the things you do are gullible.
" 1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks? "
We had 14 jets on alert that day...for the entire North American continent. And, when the transponders are shut off, it is nearly impossible to give an intercept vector.
"2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial airlines, citing an unidentified "threat" in July 2001? "
This one, is a flat out lie. He did not stop flying commercial airlines. If it was a personal trip, he flew commercial. If it was official, he flew on government planes. He spoke at an event at my church the third week of July 2001. We paid for his ticket and that of his bodyguard, for their flight on United.
"3. Why did FEMA lie about their presence in New York on 9/11? "
More misinformation. FEMA, had an field office in New York....so they were ALWAYS there.
"4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of the classroom? "
Dumbest move they could have made that day. There had already been one attempted breach of his security that morning by a "TV crew". So yeah, lets just hustle him right out of the building where there may or may not be an assassin waiting..OR, let's re-scout the area before we move him...since all of the attacks seem to be in New York City.
"
5. Why did George H.W. Bush meet bin Laden's brother on 9/11?"
He didn't. There was a meeting of Carlyle Group shareholders that day...so they were two people in a room with over 100 others. Not quite the face to face meeting you are suggesting.
"6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the flights all use the term boxcutters? "
Why wouldn't they use that term...if that is the weapons used? Again, its an attempt to create something out of nothing.
"[7. Where are the flight recorders?
Some were found, some were not. Flight recorders are not always recovered in airliner accidents. Again, trying to make something out of a relative nothing.
"
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live camera? "
He saw a news report about the first crash on TV. As many times as people ripped into Bush about his grammar...you expect him to be letter perfect that day......
"24. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appear on the passenger lists? "
Umm...they did. You refer to a story from CNN that gave a list of the victims. The manifests were submitted as evidence in the Zacarias Mossari trial..and the hijackers names, were all on them.
Moving on to your next post...
"
1. How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation”s capital? "
Flat out lie. The 113th Fighter Wing of the DCANG, was NOT assigned to any alert duties. Furthermore, they had just returned from a training deployment and that Tuesday morning was the first day back at work for most of them. So, kind of hard to launch airplanes that are not ready. Not to mention, it was less than forty minutes from the time that it was realized as an attack to the time Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. NOT an hour and 20 minutes.
"Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001?"
Well, since the AIRFONES on the jets were used for the most part, this one does not matter. However of the three cellphone calls that DID go through that day, each of them, were made at a point that the airliner was under 5,000 feet.
EACH one of your posts relies on lies, misdirection and disinformation. Again, showing just how gullible people get. They read something on the internet and swallow every last bit of it.
1. “The Great Game”
The Afghanistan invasion was ready for Bush”s go-ahead on September 9, 2001, with US and UK force deployments to the region already in place or underway. This followed the failure earlier that year of backdoor diplomacy with the Taliban (including payments of $125 million in US government aid to Afghanistan), in an attempt to secure a unity government for that country as a prerequisite to a Central Asian pipeline deal.
That is false. Bush had warned the Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden or else. The Taliban refused and the rest is history. It had nothing to do with oil at all. I might also add that the Taliban also warned the United States that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda would attack the United States. You can read all about it here.
Taliban 'warned US of huge attack
An aide to the former Taleban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, has revealed that he was sent to warn American diplomats and the United Nations that Osama bin Laden was due to launch a huge attack on American soil.
news.bbc.co.uk...
2. The Need for a “New Pearl Harbor”
Principals in US foreign policy under the current Bush administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and others) have been instrumental in developing long-running plans for worldwide military hegemony, including an invasion of the Middle East, dating back to the Ford, Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. They reiterated these plans in the late 1990s as members of the “Project for a New American Century,” and stated a clear intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of “regime change.” After 9/11, they lost no time in their attempt to tie Iraq to the attacks.
That doesn't make any sense at all. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will cost the United States trillions of dollars in the coming decades, not to mention the loss of lives and welfare for wounded warriors. In addition, I was employed on an Air Force during the 9/11 and in the years afterward, I noticed that some squadrons were so broke that they couldn't afford to buy safety gloves or other equipment for maintenance troops nor even replacement flight suits for the flying squadrons.
In other words, the military had suffered financially due to those two wars.
3. Perpetual “War on Terror”
9/11 is supposed to provide carte-blanche for an open-ended, global and perpetual “War on Terror,” against any enemy, foreign or domestic, that the executive branch chooses to designate, and regardless of whether evidence exists to actually connect these enemies to 9/11.
Blame that on Osama bin laden, al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. Other countries are involved as well and let's not forget that a terrorist group hijacked a French airliner in an effort to fly it into the Eiffel Tower. However, the plot was broken by the French and the hijackers killed.
Air France Flight 8969
Air France Flight 8969 was an Air France flight that was hijacked on 24 December 1994 by the Armed Islamic Group (GIA) at Houari Boumedienne Airport, Algiers, Algeria, where the terrorists murdered three passengers, with the intention to blow up the plane over the Eiffel Tower in Paris.
When the aircraft reached Marseille, the GIGN, a counterterror unit of the French National Gendarmerie, stormed the plane and killed all four hijackers.[1] The GIA's plan appeared to foreshadow the September 11 attacks.
en.wikipedia.org...
As you can see, the United States wasn't the only country that was to be targeted by terrorist using hijacked airliners as weapons.
4. Attacking the Constitution
a. The USA PATRIOT Act was written before 9/11, Homeland Security and the “Shadow Government” were developed long before 9/11, and plans for rounding up dissidents as a means for suppressing civil disturbance have been in the works for decades.
b. 9/11 was used as the pretext to create a new, extra-constitutional executive authority to declare anyone an “enemy combatant” (including American citizens), to detain persons indefinitely without habeas corpus, and to “render” such persons to secret prisons where torture is practiced.
It is clearly evident from warnings issued from around the world that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda were responsible for 9/11 and carried out its attack on the United States. After the attacks, they admitted they were responsible.
5. Legal Trillions
9/11 triggers a predictable shift of public spending to war, and boosts public and private spending in the “new” New Economy of “Homeland Security,” biometrics, universal surveillance, prisons, civil defense, secured enclaves, security,
etc....
6. Plundered Trillions?
On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a “war on waste” after an internal audit found that the Pentagon was “missing” 2.3 trillion dollars in unaccounted assets. On September 11th, this was as goo
False! The military went broke after 9/11. In Afghanistan, the U.S. military was so financially strapped that there were even cutbacks of breakfast items.
Now, about that $2.3 trillion that wasn't missing at all.
web.archive.org...://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2002/n02202002_200202201.htmlweb.archive.org... 93817/www.defenselink.mil...
The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.
www.911myths.com...
WASHINGTON, Feb. 20, 2002 -- As part of military transformation efforts, DoD Comptroller Dov S. Zakheim and his posse of accountants are riding the Pentagon's financial paper trail, seeking to corral billions of dollars in so-called "lost" expenditures.
For years, DoD and congressional officials have sought to reconcile defense financial documents to determine where billions in expenditures have gone. That money didn't fall down a hole, but is simply waiting to be accounted for, Zakheim said in a Feb. 14 interview with the American Forces Information Service. Complicating matters, he said, is that DoD has 674 different computerized accounting, logistics and personnel systems.
Most of the 674 systems "don't talk to one another unless somebody 'translates,'" he remarked. This situation, he added, makes it hard to reconcile financial data.
Billions of dollars of DoD taxpayer-provided money haven't disappeared, Zakheim said. "Missing" expenditures are often reconciled a bit later in the same way people balance their checkbooks every month. The bank closes out a month and
web.archive.org...://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2002/n02202002_200202201.html
Since then, the majority of that $2.3 Trillion has now been accounted for and this is another clear example of how conspiracy theorist concoct unfounded conspiracy theories out of pure ignorance of the facts.
edit on 8-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: skyeagle409
You should save some of your responses with video links to a Word document.
That way when the next truther spouts off about untrained pilots can't do this or that you can just copy and paste you excellent replies.
Rest assured the next new truther will come around in about six weeks.
You should save some of your responses with video links to a Word document.
That way when the next truther spouts off about untrained pilots can't do this or that you can just copy and paste you excellent replies.
Rest assured the next new truther will come around in about six weeks.
a reply to: Nova937
This impact zone.
Wing Impact Marks of American 77
Wing Impact Damage of American 77
Look at this hole on the facade of the Empire State Building. Notice the hole and wing impact marks, which are similar to the impact marks on the Pentagon.
B-25 Bomber Strikes Empire State Building
But, fires are known to weaken structural steel to the point of failure.
FAILURE ANALYSIS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER 5 BUILDING
This project involves a failure analysis of the internal structural collapse that occurred in World Trade Center 5 (WTC 5) due to fire exposure alone on September 11, 2001.
www.wpi.edu...
Fire Triggers WTC 5 Internal Collapse
Temperature and Strength of Metals
Influence of temperature on the strength of metals
Some common types of steel lose 10% of their strength at 450 C (840 F), and 40% at 550 C (1022 F). At temperatures above 800 C ( 1475 F), it has lost 90% of its strength. Other types of steel are made to stand higher temperatures before losing 10% of their strength, but they are much more expensive (and are weaker at room temperature).
And there are types which actually get stronger, up to 450 F (but then get a lot weaker at higher temperatures
What impact zone?
This impact zone.
Wing Impact Marks of American 77
Wing Impact Damage of American 77
A 16 foot wide hole was all that was left before the roof collapsed 45 minutes later. Please don't make up stories as you go along.
Look at this hole on the facade of the Empire State Building. Notice the hole and wing impact marks, which are similar to the impact marks on the Pentagon.
B-25 Bomber Strikes Empire State Building
Office fires DON'T melt Steel.
But, fires are known to weaken structural steel to the point of failure.
FAILURE ANALYSIS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER 5 BUILDING
This project involves a failure analysis of the internal structural collapse that occurred in World Trade Center 5 (WTC 5) due to fire exposure alone on September 11, 2001.
www.wpi.edu...
Fire Triggers WTC 5 Internal Collapse
Temperature and Strength of Metals
Influence of temperature on the strength of metals
Some common types of steel lose 10% of their strength at 450 C (840 F), and 40% at 550 C (1022 F). At temperatures above 800 C ( 1475 F), it has lost 90% of its strength. Other types of steel are made to stand higher temperatures before losing 10% of their strength, but they are much more expensive (and are weaker at room temperature).
And there are types which actually get stronger, up to 450 F (but then get a lot weaker at higher temperatures
originally posted by: loveguy
originally posted by: waypastvne
originally posted by: loveguy
I'd ask for an actual piece of wtc concrete flooring with pan to do the test, best there wasn't anything left to test?
We have exactly what you are asking for right here:
s3.amazonaws.com...
s3.amazonaws.com...
It contains samples from 3 floors with concrete, trusses, floorpans, and rebar .
Now what kind of test do you want to do ?
thanks for the reply.
would you mind embedding your links' images?
from what it looks thus far, anything I can put my physical hand to?
i can't exactly drop a thermal image from nasa, now can i?
so,
I clicked your links and found something twice- not a floorpan nor was it encased with concrete?
you and I both know those are picks of a crumbled foundation...maybe pieces of a stairwell had the core of towers been encased in concrete.
I'm asking for a real simple test of physics...
Why don't people see that concrete doesn't just go poof
Testing fraud in New York City[edit]
American Standard Testing and Consulting Laboratories, company president Alan Fortich, and five other executives admitted filing false documents on "thousands" of New York City construction projects — including the Yankee Stadium, the Second Avenue Subway, and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center — over 10 years. ASTCL had replaced Testwell Inc., another firm indicted for faking concrete tests, in 2008
a reply to: Nova937
Look at it as their calling card since the 9/11 hijackers knew they would have no further need for their personal effects knowing they were on a one-way trip.
Let's take a look and start here.
Al-Qaeda released martyr videos for most of the 9/11 hijackers
The Al Jazeera satellite network shows an hour-long video about al-Qaeda containing footage given to it from al-Qaeda of some of the 9/11 hijackers, including a martyr video from hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari (see September 9, 2002 and September 9, 2002).
A martyr video from hijacker Ahmed Alhaznawi was shown in April 2002. But this new hour-long video contains images of each of the hijacker teams that hijacked Flights 11, 77, 93 and 175 on September 11. These images show pictures of each hijacker in the team floating over a background.
9/11 Hijacker Pictures 1
9/11 Hijacker Pictures 2
7. Who were the perpetrators?
a. Much of the evidence establishing who did the crime is dubious and miraculous: bags full of incriminating material that happened to miss the flight or were left in a van; the “magic passport” of an alleged hijacker, found at Ground Zero; documents found at motels where the alleged perpetrators had stayed days and weeks before 9/11.
Look at it as their calling card since the 9/11 hijackers knew they would have no further need for their personal effects knowing they were on a one-way trip.
b. The identities of the alleged hijackers remain unresolved, there are contradictions in official accounts of their actions and travels, and there is evidence several of them had “doubles,” all of which is omitted from official investigations.
Let's take a look and start here.
Al-Qaeda released martyr videos for most of the 9/11 hijackers
The Al Jazeera satellite network shows an hour-long video about al-Qaeda containing footage given to it from al-Qaeda of some of the 9/11 hijackers, including a martyr video from hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari (see September 9, 2002 and September 9, 2002).
A martyr video from hijacker Ahmed Alhaznawi was shown in April 2002. But this new hour-long video contains images of each of the hijacker teams that hijacked Flights 11, 77, 93 and 175 on September 11. These images show pictures of each hijacker in the team floating over a background.
9/11 Hijacker Pictures 1
9/11 Hijacker Pictures 2
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