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If Someone Proved one point Would Accept the rest?

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posted on Aug, 4 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: Nova937



Killing Osama

Don't you know who the Bin Ladens worked with? Does the BUSH family mean anything to you?


Yes it does, and it is apparent that you do not know the rest of the story. Bush never met with Osama bin Laden, he met with his brother,Shafiq bin Ladin, and to make you aware, shortly After April 9, 1994: Bin Laden Family Publicly Disowns Osama bin Laden.




posted on Aug, 4 2015 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: Moresby



The only reason most people believe the official story is because it's THE OFFICIAL STORY.


For me, it goes much further. I am a pilot of 46 years and an aircraft structural technician of 48 years experience and based on that many years experience, I went head-to-head a few years ago with Rob Balsamo, founder of "Pilots for 9/11 Truth", when I caught him posting false and misleading information on another forum.

Based on my structural experience, I didn't need to read the NIST report to understand the caused for the collapse of the WTC buildings and my wartime experience in Vietnam was the reason why I have stated for the record that I did not see evidence , neither in videos nor on audio, that explosives were used to bring down the WTC buildings.

Explosions make a lot a noise and I can related that fact to the many days and nights that we came under attack and yet, I didn't hear a single peep from explosions as the WTC buildings fell. People get the wrong idea that you can plant bombs inside steel frame buildings and bring it down, but that is pure Hollywood fiction stuff. If you don't prepare a building properly, the building will not fall in the manner expected, and in fact, may not fall at all as was the case when a huge bomb was detonated beneath WTC 1 in 1993.

For explosives to be effective in a building the size of the WTC buildings. you have to cut the stairwells and elevator shafts, cut and pre-weaken structural columns and remove firewalls, and then, place explosives firmly on the steel structures. In other words, you have to gut the building, which will generate tons of waste debris, lots of dust and noise, which would not have been tolerated in an occupied building, especially since such an operation would have taken many,many months, perhaps even a year for the WTC Towers. After all, it took many months just to prepare a bridge in Corpus Christi, Texas for demolition, which was a piece of cake compared to what it would have taken to prepare WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7 for demolition.

If explosives are not firmly attached properly the blast waves will simply flow around the steel columns like wind flowing around a flag pole and if they are attached, the detonations will send signals down through the steel columns and into the ground where seismic monitors will detect the signals. I looked at the seismic charts and there is not a single shred of evidence that explosive detonations occurred, neither in the seconds proceeding, nor during their collapse, so I asked myself; Who in the world is duping people on non-existent demolition explosives at ground zero?

I have had to correct a number of people on ACARS, which did not depict any of the 9/11 aircraft landing anywhere else, tampered transponders that do not render aircraft invisible to radar, switched aircraft that never were, remote aircraft that never were. and air defense protocol and measures that are not geared to intercept airliners inside the borders of the United States. Outside the border, yes, not inside.

There were Air Force commanders who refused to pass on the shoot-down orders to their pilots after they were receive only after United 93 crashed and there were pilots who have said that they would not have shot down any airliner. I might add that no Air Force aircraft was in a position to shoot down United 93 anyway and after listening to ATC communication tapes, it was clear that the military had no idea where Unite 93 was, and in fact, the military was unaware that United 93 had even crashed, yet I was reading false claims that United 93 was shot down by a certain pilot of an F-16, so I decided to check and found that the pilot there were referring to, was nowhere near Shanksville and in fact, the pilot was in another state carrying a passenger in his two-seat F-16 to another destination at the time.

Others have claimed that a white jet was responsible for shooting down United 93 and was seen circling over the crash site, but it was later determined that the white jet was a business jet that was asked by ATC to take a look around that area.

Question is; Who has been flooding the Truth Movement with tons of disinformation ,misinformation, and outright lies over the years?
edit on 5-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Not only that, but inexperienced "pilots" who couldn't handle small planes at low knots, could guide 3 jumbo boeing planes perfectly into 3 buildings at a high rate of knots...

Totally feasible.


Once a plane is away from the ground they are rather easy to fly.... It seems we always debate the how and not the why....The how is little importance and when you go any direction from the official story it fragments off into extreme unlikelihoods.

On one hand you have a Government that can't do anything right and on the other hand you have this shadow Government that not only can't do anything wrong, but is so perfect that no matter how complex a situation is they do not have a single mistake.
edit on 5-8-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

Why did you address your reply to me? The message you quoted isn't what I posted.

Peace.



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Question is; Who has been flooding the Truth Movement with tons of disinformation ,misinformation, and outright lies over the years?


Like the Official BS side of the story. So much disinformation led by shills over the years!


edit on 5-8-2015 by Nova937 because: (no reason given)


9/11 hard facts
edit on 5-8-2015 by Nova937 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: network dude



With so many cameras that could have gotten the shot, it's almost uncanny that not one DVR was able to produce a picture of the plane at any point.


Let's take a look here.

American 77 Pentagon Video

That is definitely a B-757. My Wing Commander was in the Pentagon when American 77 struck, and I have identified from photos, B-757 wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon.

I might add that while videos are helpful, they are not required to determine the cause of an airplane accident. That is what black boxes, voice recorders, radar data, and communication tapes are for. In fact, the majority of aircraft accidents are solved without the use of video cameras.

We have videos of American 11 and United 175 striking the WTC Towers, yet there are people claiming that no aircraft struck those buildings despite the fact that aircraft wreckage and remains of passengers and crew were recovered and identified.


Unfortunately, what I am left with here, is your word, and that same 5 frame grainy "video" that doesn't show a plane at all. I fully grasp that lots of folks claim to have seen the bodies, and wreckage, and people lost friends there. I am sorry for any loss. But facts are facts, and in this case there aren't many. There were several cameras on the front of the pentagon that may have been pointed in the correct direction. They were PTZ cameras, and their option was to look at a cement wall, 4 inches away, or the lawn. Now I can't say for sure that whomever was in charge of the DVR's at the pentagon wasn't a complete idiot, but seeing as how that building is a tad more important than the 7-11 across the street, and it's cameras were working fine, I'd guess that more footage exists, but we haven't' seen it yet.

It may well show the plane skimming inches off the ground, and making a distinct round hole in reinforced concrete, all while not making much mess at all when the engines hit the building. But until we see something showing a plane, there will always bee a few folks who just aren't ready to swallow 100% of the story.

Two planes hit two towers, no argument. Two towers fell strangely, then a third. That's odd, but it could happen. Then, in a completely different city, a plane skimmed inches from the ground, and made a perfectly round hole,6 walls deep, which seems a bit odd for what happened. Granted, it had never happened before, so maybe that's exactly what does happen in that scenario. But it's odd.

Then flight 93 seemed to disappear into a hole that was there previously. That's odd to say the least. So we are left with almost everything about that day, being very odd, borderline not believable, yet when anyone questions it, we are made to feel as if we are nuts for even thinking about it. I'll let others decide how they put things together. For me, there are a few questions that remain, and I suspect will be there many years to come.

If you ever find another angle of the plane footage, I am sure lots of folks would love to see it. (perhaps from all the surrounding DVR's that were confiscated?)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: Nova937



Like the Official BS side of the story. So much disinformation led by shills over the years!


Looking at the facts, the Truth Movement has been the major source of disinformation. I guess they were also unaware that firefighers confirmed that WTC 7 collapsed due to fire and structural damage.



Deputy Chief Peter Haden

Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors.

It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.


The visible bulge was evidence that fire was slowly weakening the steel structure of WTC 7.



Chief Frank Fellini

We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex.

sites.google.com...


FDNY Deputy Chief Harold Meyers

Chief Nigro directed me to continue monitoring conditions at the site. Specifically to monitor number 7 World Trade Center. We were very concerned with the collapse potential there, and to do whatever I could do to ensure site safety in that no additional people became injured. –


Captain Chris Boyle

Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

debunking911.com...


Captain Anthony Varriale

Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe...that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did.

We made searches. We attempted to put some of the fire out, but we had a pressure problem. I forget the name of the Deputy. Some Deputy arrived at the scene and thought that the building was too dangerous to continue with operations, so we evacuated number 7 World Trade Center.

graphics8.nytimes.com...


Firefighter Eugene Kelty Jr

We made them evacuate and I went in the back to see what was happening. I went back and I reminded whoever the chief was, I don't know if it was Chief McKavanagh or Chief Blaich, that with 7 World Trade Center in danger of collapsing, you had to be careful, because Con Edison had big transformers in the back that supplied the lower half of Manhattan. So we had to be concerned about electricity, that this may be energized or not be energized.

sites.google.com...


As I have correctly asserted, fire, not explosives, was responsible for the collapse of WTC 7, as indicated by firefighers.
edit on 5-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Nova937



Like the Official BS side of the story. So much disinformation led by shills over the years!


Looking at the facts, the Truth Movement has been the major source of disinformation.



What facts? The official version of events is so full of holes it's like Swiss cheese. Why don't I list them from my link!

1) Nano Thermite was found in the dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal. ‘Niels Harrit’, ‘Thermite Bentham’, “The great thermate debate” Jon Cole, ‘Iron rich spheres’ Steven Jones, ‘Limited Metallurgical Examination (FEMA C-13, Appendix C-6)’. ‘Nano Tubes’

2) 1700+ Engineers and Architects support a real independent 9/11 investigation. Richard Gage, Founder. ‘Explosive Evidence’, ‘Blueprint for Truth’, ‘AE911′, ‘Toronto Hearings’, ‘Kevin Ryan’.

3) The total collapse of WTC 7 in 6.5 seconds at free fall acceleration (NIST admits 2.25 seconds). Larry Silverstein used the term “Pull it”. Steel framed high rise buildings have NEVER totally collapsed from fire or structural damage. Builidng 7 was not hit by a plane. ‘Building 7′, ‘WTC 7′.

4) Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD on 9/11 while running war games. ‘Stand down order’. “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?”. Norman Minetta testimony. “Gave order to shootdown Flight 93.”, ‘NORAD Drills’.

5) 6 out of the 10 Commissioners believe the 9/11 Commission report was “Setup to fail” Co-Chairs Hamilton and Kean, “It was a 30 year conspiracy”, “The whitehouse has played cover up”, ‘Max Cleland resigned’, ‘John Farmer’.

6) FBI confiscated 84/85 Videos from the Pentagon. ‘Moussaoui trial’ revealed these videos. Released Pentagon Security Camera (FOIA) does not show a 757 and is clearly Missing a frame. ‘Sheraton Hotel’, “Double tree’, ‘Citgo”.

7) Osama Bin Laden was NOT wanted by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks. “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” CIA created, trained and funded “Al Qaeda/Taliban” during the Mujahideen. OBL was a CIA asset named ‘Tim Osman’. OBL Reported dead in Dec 2001 (FOX).

8)100’s of Firefighters and witness testimony to BOMBS/EXPLOSIONS ignored by the 9/11 Commission Report. 9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses. “Explosions in the lobby and sub levels”, ‘Firefighter explosions’, ‘Barry Jennings’, ‘William Rodriguez’.

9) 100’s of firefighters and witness testimony to MOLTEN METAL ignored by the Commission report. “Like you’re in a foundry”, “NIST’s John Gross denies the existence of Molten Metal”, ‘Swiss Cheese’, “As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.” Leslie Robertson’.

10) ‘5 Dancing Israeli’s’ arrested in ‘Mossad Truck Bombs’ on 9/11 that stated “We were there to document the event.” ‘Urban Moving Systems’ front company, ‘Dominic Suter’. “$498,750 Business loan (June 2001)”. “Officer DeCarlo’, ‘Art Students’, ‘Israeli Spying’.

11) On September 10th, 2001. Rumsfeld reported $2.3 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon. ‘Dov Zakheim’ Pentagon Comptroller. Former VP of ‘Systems Planning Corporation’ (Flight Termination System). Signatore of PNAC document.

12) 220+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials question the official story. ‘9/11 Whistleblowers’, ‘Patriots for 9/11′. ‘Robert Bowman’, ‘Sibel Edmonds’, ‘Albert Stubblebine’, ‘Wesley Clark’, ‘Mark Dayton’, ‘Alan Sabrosky’, ‘Cyntha McKinney’, ‘Jesse Ventura’, ‘Kurt Sonnenfeld’. “patriotsquestion911.com”

13) Towers were built to withstand a Boeing jet(s). “I designed it for a 707 to hit it”, Leslie Robertson, WTC structural engineer. “Could probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners”, “like a pencil puncturing screen netting” Frank De Martini, deceased Manager of WTC Construction & Project Management. “As far as a plane knocking a building over, that would not happen.” Charlie Thornton, Structural Engineer.

14) History of American False Flag attacks. ‘USS Liberty’, ‘Gulf of Tonkin’, ‘Operation Northwoods’, ‘OKC Bombing (Murrah Building)’, ‘1993 WTC attacks’. ‘Patrick Clawson’. Project for the New American Century (PNAC) needed “a New Pearl Harbor”, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”. 9/11 Achieved those goals.

15) BBC correspondent Jane Standley reported the collapse of WTC 7 (Soloman Brothers building) 20 minutes before it happened. CNN/FOX/MSNBC also had early reports. ‘BBC wtc 7′, ‘Jane Standley’, Ashleigh Banfield’.

16) “Flight 93″ debris was spread out over many miles. Cheney admits to giving the order to shootdown 93. “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania” Rumsfeld, “nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there” ‘Chris Konicki. “Not a drop of blood” Coroner Wallace Miller. “there was no plane.” Mayor Ernie Stull.

17) Bush hesitated for 441 days before starting the 911 Commission. ‘Jersey Girls’. ‘Phil Zelikow’ already wrote the outline before the commission began. Steel shipped over seas. Obstruction of justice. JFK and Pearl Harbor commissions were started within 7 days.

18) The 911 commission was given extremely limited funds. $15 million was given to investigate 9/11. (Over $60 Million was spent investigating Clintons’ affairs with Monica).

19) Bush said he watched the first plane crash into the North tower on TV before entering the classroom. “The TV was obviously on.” Was informed about the second impact while reading ‘My Pet Goat’ to the children. Remained for at least 8 more minutes while America was under “attack”.

20) The PATRIOT ACT was written before 9/11. Signed into law October 26th, 2001.

21) Marvin Bush was director of Stratasec (Securacom, ‘KuAm’) which was in charge of security of the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles International Airport. All three were breached on 9/11. ICTS was another company that provided security at the airports. ‘Wirt Walker’, ‘Ezra Harel’, ‘ICTS”, ‘WTC power downs’.

22) “Who killed John O’Neil?”. Former FBI task force agent investigating Al Qaeda/Bin Laden. Transferred by Kroll Corporation to head the security just before 9/11. John O’Neil died in the Towers. ‘Jerome Hauer’ ‘Jules Kroll’.

23) Insider trading based upon foreknowledge. ‘Put Options.’ Never identified insiders made millions. ‘United and American Airlines’ ‘Raytheon.’

24) At least 7 of the 19 listed highjackers are still alive (BBC). No video footage of 19 highjackers or passengers boarding the 4 planes. Pilots of the 4 planes never squawked the highjacking code. ‘Alive highjackers’, ‘ACARS’, ‘Pilots for 9/11 Truth’.


Facts you say?



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: samkent
If someone proved one of your sticking points that has prevented you from accepting the OS would you change your mind about the entire conspiracy?

Example:
Lets say Joe Schmoe's son is going through his deceased fathers things and finds a camcorder.
So he charges and hits play.
The tape was shot in DC and out the hotel window is the Pentagon and it clearly shows the plane hitting.

or

More debris is found between NYC buildings.
Again a camcorder.
This time it was shot on one of the planes clearly showing the hijackers doing their thing.

Would evidence like this stop your conspiracy in it's tracks?



Why are you even bothered??

You believe the os so why 14 years later you are still posting on a conspiracy forum

I find it very strange
edit on 5-8-2015 by kaya82 because: Error



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: Nova937




Nano Thermite was found in the dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal.

That just shows you accept any old website as fact.




In a review of Bentham Open for The Charleston Advisor, Jeffrey Beall noted that "in many cases, Bentham Open journals publish articles that no legitimate peer-review journal would accept, and unconventional and nonconformist ideas are being presented in some of them as legitimate science." He concluded by stating that "the site has exploited the Open Access model for its own financial motives and flooded scholarly communication with a flurry of low quality and questionable research.


What it comes down to is if you pay them they will publish your article. Regardless of what is inside.



Bentham Open journals claim to employ peer review;[7] however, the fact that a fake paper generated with SCIgen had been accepted for publication, has cast doubt on this.[8][9][10] Furthermore, the publisher is known for spamming scientists with invitations to become a member of the editorial boards of its journals.[11]



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: kaya82




Why are you even bothered??

You believe the os so why 14 years later you are still posting on a conspiracy forum

I find it very strange

I consider truthers as cats and I have the laser pointer.
They entertain me with their complete lack of google skills.



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: samkent

Lol vice versa!



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: network dude



Unfortunately, what I am left with here, is your word, and that same 5 frame grainy "video" that doesn't show a plane at all.


On the contrary, if you look closely enough you can see the vertical stabilizer of a B-757 and the smoke trail, which occurred after an engine received a dose of FOD.


I fully grasp that lots of folks claim to have seen the bodies, and wreckage, and people lost friends there. I am sorry for any loss. But facts are facts, and in this case there aren't many.


If you look hard enough on the Internet, you will see bodies, which are graphic.


There were several cameras on the front of the pentagon that may have been pointed in the correct direction. They were PTZ cameras, and their option was to look at a cement wall, 4 inches away, or the lawn. Now I can't say for sure that whomever was in charge of the DVR's at the pentagon wasn't a complete idiot, but seeing as how that building is a tad more important than the 7-11 across the street, and it's cameras were working fine, I'd guess that more footage exists, but we haven't' seen it yet.


There were a number of surveillance cameras, but I don't expect their contents to be released. I can relate as to why. I was a witness to a C-141 fire at Travis AFB and saw the flightline videos, but knew that not all videos of the incident were released on the Internet, because of security concerns. After all, they are security cameras and it would have been ridicules to post all flightline security camera assets on the Internet. Here is a photo of that incident. I was about two hundred yards away when this photo was taken.

C-141 Incident Photo



It may well show the plane skimming inches off the ground, and making a distinct round hole in reinforced concrete, all while not making much mess at all when the engines hit the building. But until we see something showing a plane, there will always bee a few folks who just aren't ready to swallow 100% of the story.


We can take a look at the following photos depicting American 77 wrecakage at the Pentagon.



American 77 Wreckage

American 77 Wheel

American 77 Engine Wreckage

American 77 Wing Flaps

American 77 Landing Gear Struct

American 77 Wing Tip

American 77 Wreckage


Now, let's look for the wreckage of a B-25 bomber when it stuck the Empire State Building.



B-25 Bomber Photo

B-25 Impact Hole on the Empire State Building


The B-25 was an aircraft that was much larger than that impact hole.


Two planes hit two towers, no argument. Two towers fell strangely, then a third. That's odd, but it could happen.


Other WTC buildings received impact damage when WTC 1 collapsed. WTC 7 had a huge hole punched on its south facade that was several stories.



Then, in a completely different city, a plane skimmed inches from the ground, and made a perfectly round hole,6 walls deep, which seems a bit odd for what happened.


The landing gear punched out that small hole in the C-ring wall.



Then flight 93 seemed to disappear into a hole that was there previously. That's odd to say the least.


There won't be much an intact aircraft that strikes the ground at over 500 mph. Take a look at this photo that depicts the crash site of Caspian 7908, and you won't find an intact fuselage nor tail section.

Caspian 7908

Caspian 7908 Crash Site



That hole was not there before and you will notice So we are left with almost everything about that day, being very odd, borderline not believable, yet when anyone questions it, we are made to feel as if we are nuts for even thinking about it. I'll let others decide how they put things together. For me, there are a few questions that remain, and I suspect will be there many years to come.


Let's take a look at this photo whch depicts the crash site of United 93 and notice the burned trees near the crater.

United 93 Crash Site

Now, let's take a look here.



[size=]Text: United Airlines Statement on Plane Crashes

Following is a statement issued by United Airlines on the crash of Flight 93 near Pittsburgh and Flight 175 in a location that was not immediately disclosed:
United Airlines has now confirmed that two of its aircraft have crashed.

— UA 93, a Boeing 757 aircraft, departed from Newark, N.J. at 8:01 a.m. local time, bound for San Francisco, with 38 passengers on board, two pilots, five flight attendants.

— UA 175, a Boeing 767 aircraft, departed from Boston at 7:58 a.m. local time, bound for Los Angeles, with 56 passengers on board, two pilots and seven flight attendants.



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: Nova937

No one found evidence of thermite nor nano-thermite at ground zero. What you had done was to post more disinformation. To make my point that everything you have been posting is false and misleading information and disinformation.

Let't take a few examples from your post.



2) 1700+ Engineers and Architects support a real independent 9/11 investigation. Richard Gage, Founder. ‘Explosive Evidence’, ‘Blueprint for Truth’, ‘AE911′, ‘Toronto Hearings’, ‘Kevin Ryan’.


Now, let's take a look at reality.



Architects Shy From Trutherism

The AIA itself, however, is firm about its relationship with Gage. “We don’t have any relationship with his organization whatsoever,” Scott Frank, head of media relations for the AIA.

www.architectmagazine.com...

ARCHITECT Magazine
The Magzine of the American Institute of Architects

All of Gage’s so-called evidence has been rebutted in peer-reviewed papers, by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, by the National Institute for Standards and Technology, by the American Society of Civil Engineers, by the 9/11 Commission Report, and, perhaps most memorably, by the 110-year-old engineering journal Popular Mechanics.


American Society of Civil Engineers

Towers Weakened by Planes; Brought Down by Fire

WASHINGTON, D.C., MAY 1, 2002

Analysis by a team of 25 of the nation's leading structural and fire protection engineers suggests that the World Trade Center Towers could have remained standing indefinitely if fire had not overwhelmed the weakened structures, according to a report presented today at a hearing of the House Science Committee. That finding is significant, said W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., team lead for the ASCE/FEMA Building Performance Study Team, because extreme events of this type, resulting in such substantial damage, are generally not considered in building design, and the fact that these structures were able to successfully withstand such damage is noteworthy.


Civil & Structural Engineers on WTC Collapse

"The aircraft moved through the building as if it were a hot and fast lava flow," Sozen says. "Consequently, much of the fireproofing insulation was ripped off the structure. Even if all of the columns and girders had survived the impact - an unlikely event - the structure would fail as the result of a buckling of the columns. The heat from an ordinary office fire would suffice to soften and weaken the unprotected steel. Evaluation of the effects of the fire on the core column structure, with the insulation removed by the impact, showed that collapse would follow whatever the number of columns cut at the time of the impact."

There are 120,000 members of ASME(American Society of Mechanical Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 370,000 members of IEEE(Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 40,000 members of AIChE(American Institute of Chemical Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 35,000 members of AIAA (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) who do not question the NIST report.

911-engineers.blogspot.com...



To continue:



3) The total collapse of WTC 7 in 6.5 seconds at free fall acceleration (NIST admits 2.25 seconds).


This video of WTC 7 proves that you are incorrect.






Larry Silverstein used the term “Pull it”.


Larry Silverstein were referring to the pull out of firefighters and nothing to with explosives. BTW, the term; "Pull", does not relate to explosive demolition within the demolition community. Someone threw that piece of disinformation on the Internet implying that it involved explosives and the rest is history when people passed the disinformation around.


Steel framed high rise buildings have NEVER totally collapsed from fire or structural damage.


Let's take a look to see if you are right.



Kader Toy Factory Fire

At about 4pm on May 10th, 1993, a small fire was discovered on the first floor of part of the E-shaped building. Workers were instructed to keep working as the fire was thought to be minor. The fire alarm in this building did not sound.

The building was reinforced with un-insulated steel girders which quickly weakened and collapsed. This part of the building was dedicated to the storage of finished products and the fire spread quickly. Other parts of the factory were full of raw materials which also burnt very fast.

Workers in the first building who tried to escape found the ground floor exit doors locked, and the stairwells soon collapsed. Many workers jumped from the second, third and fourth floor windows in order to escape the flames, resulting in severe injuries or death. Fire-fighters arrived at the factory at about 4:40pm, to find Building One about to collapse.

[size=4]The Kader buildings,...collapsed relatively early in the fire because their structural steel supports lacked the fireproofing that would have allowed them to maintain their strength when exposed to high temperatures. A post-fire review of the debris at the Kader site showed no indication that any of the steel members had been fireproofed.


So, the collapse of 3 steel frame buildings in hours, proved you wrong once again.




Builidng 7 was not hit by a plane. ‘Building 7′, ‘WTC 7′.


Fact of the matter is, WTC 7 was struck by debris from WTC 7, which created a huge hole on its south facade. Check it out.



WTC 7 Impact Damage

So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

debunking911.com...


Continue:



4) Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD on 9/11 while running war games. ‘Stand down order’.


There was no stand down order because we don't shut down our air defense because of drills. Air defense is 24/7, drills and no drills. On another note, our air defenses are not geared to intercepting airliners within the borders of the United States. Let's take a look here.



Death Ends 1,600-Mile Flight Of Learjet Stolen by Mechanic

DENVER, May 25— A flight mechanic who did not have a pilot's license stole a private jet in Virginia early today and flew it 1,600 miles to Denver, where he shot himself to death as the authorities closed

www.nytimes.com...


As you can see, you are incorrect.
edit on 5-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

Lol keep flogging the Mainstream Official BS dead horse. Every link is from the best Propaganda and Shill sites!



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: Nova937 from samkent



That just shows you accept any old website as fact.


I have noticed that as well. The other day, a hoaxed video of WTC 7 was posted in order to prove that truthers are in a habit of posting hoaxed videos, photos and passing disinformation and amazingly, he posted that same hoaxed video in a reply to me claiming that it was proof that WTC 7 was taken down by explosives, which he said, was depicted in the video.

Afterward, I posted the rest of the story showing that the detonations he claimed was proof of detonations on WTC 7 were actually placed at random by the person who hoaxed the video.

Simply amazing!!


edit on 5-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: Nova937



keep flogging the Mainstream Official BS dead horse. Every link is from the best Propaganda and Shill sites!


After 14 years, facts and evidence continue to present themselves for all to see and during that time period, truthers have watched their claims go down in flames, which explains why there is no evidence of an 9/11 inside job.



“Flight 93″ debris was spread out over many miles.


Nothing new. When PSA 1771 slammed into the ground at a high rate of speed, contents from the crash site were found 8 miles away.

PSA 1771 Crash Site



Cheney admits to giving the order to shootdown 93. “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania”


Now, for the rest of the story considering that only the President of the United States can issue such orders.



9-11 Fighter Pilot: We Wouldn't Have Shot Down Hijackers

The pilot of one of two U.S. military jets that were scrambled on 9-11 moments after kamikaze hijacker Mohamed Atta slammed American Airlines Flight 11 into Tower One of the World Trade Center said Wednesday that he wouldn't have been able to stop the attack even if he intercepted the plane.

"If we had intercepted American 11, we probably would have watched it crash," the pilot, identified only by his military codename "Nasty," told the Cape Cod Times. "We didn't have the authority to (shoot it down)."

As part of the 102nd Fighter Wing flying out of Otis Air National Guard Base on Cape Cod, "Nasty" and his partner, codenamed "Duff," were scrambled at 8:46 a.m. as news of Flight 11's hijacking reached the base.

"We didn't suspect they would use kamikaze tactics that morning," the pilot told the Times. "We weren't ready for that type of an attack, to quickly shoot down one of our own airplanes."

At the time, military pilots had no such standing orders. Absent a presidential directive they had no authority to blow a commercial airliner out of the sky.


9/11 10th Anniversary: F-15 pilot Dan Nash recalls response

Controllers from the Northeast Air Defense Sector

would spot an aircraft on their radar and ask the pilots to investigate and steer it away from Manhattan’s airspace. Over a four-hour period, Nash and Duffy repeated the process for between 50 and 100 aircraft.

When the South Tower of the trade center fell at 9:59 a.m., Nash was flying east over Kennedy, escorting a small civilian airliner to a safe landing. “When we turned around,” he recalled, “Manhattan was covered with what I thought was smoke. But it was the dust from the collapsed tower.”

The pilots were over the North Tower when it collapsed at 10:28 a.m. From an altitude of 6,000 feet, according to Vittner’s report, Duffy watched the tower implode. Nash wasn’t looking down at the time; he only saw the aftermath. The plume of smoke and ash, he estimated, rose 5,000 feet above streets below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

113th Wing, Andrews AFB

"We've never been an air defense unit. We practice scrambles, we know how to do intercepts and other things, but there's a lot of protocol in the air defense business. We obviously didn't have that expertise...

Chief of Safety for the 113th Wing, Andrews AFB.

10:09 AM1 minute, 57 seconds

"The fighter pilots do not know if they have permission to shoot down planes. A commander tells them they do not. (Warning: profanity at the end of the clip)"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**** the code words, that’s perishable information. Negative clearance to fire, ID, type, tail. (they are only to identify the type and tail number of the plane).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In interviews with us, NEADS personnel expressed considerable confusion over the nature and effect of the order

The NEADS commander told us he did not pass along the order because he was unaware of its ramifications. Both the mission commander and the senior weapons director indicated they did not pass the order to the fighters circling Washington and New York because they were unsure how the pilots would, or should, proceed with this guidance.

...the Langley pilots did not know the threat they were facing, did not know where United 93 was located, and did not have shoot-down authorization before United 93 crashed.

www.nytimes.com...


Continue:


Rumsfeld, “nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there” ‘Chris Konicki.


Where's the aircraft at this crash site?

Belview Airlines Crash Site



“Not a drop of blood” Coroner Wallace Miller. “there was no plane.” Mayor Ernie Stull.


You posted more disinformation, so let's hear it from Coroner Wall Miller and listen how he slams Truthers for distorting his statements.




edit on 5-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2015 @ 11:50 PM
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a reply to: AceWombat04

My message should have gone to someone else. My mistake.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

Oh yeah that guy. Said he saw loads of bodies after he said for at least 4 times prior there were no bodies and no plane wreckage! Did he decide to change his glasses? Or just his testimony after being told to.



And there's another thing. They found a bandanna and a hijacker's passport. Our passport office should change our passports to be made of the same stuff those apparent hijackers passports are made of. They are apparently indestructible!

Or more than likely like the towers passport they are PLANTED evidence to make sure the sheeple believe the Official BS Story!

With Shanlsville and the Pentagon there is no evidence of a plane and or bodies at the scene until later on when they plant evidence, photograph it, pass it to the Lamestream Media to report and sit back and watch the Gullible Sheeple take it all in. They then as you do nod their heads and say 'Yeah it was Osama Bin Laden and 19 Muslim Hijackers that did it!'.

Look at that Shanksville Video. No plane, No bodies, a 'Scar' shape that was already there and the only thing added was a smoking hole. A week or 2 later and there are coroner reports saying there were bodies after saying there were none, evidence of a plane starts coming out when on that day there was none!

Same sh*t as the Pentagon. No evidence of a plane, no videos (Even though there were numerous cameras pointing in that general direction), no bodies. Just a 16 foot wide hole with no damage to the windows either side. A week or 2 later out comes photos of evidence then the stories of folding origami aircraft. "How can it fit through that hole and not damage the windows above or either side of the hole? NIST and FEMA? Well the aircraft folded up and disappeared through the hole. All the wreckage is in there!! There was some outside though."

Does this look planted or what? If this was real wreckage then don't you think there would be marks on the ground before it's final resting place? It looks as if someone tiptoed out and placed it there. Which is probably what has been done. "We need the sheeple to believe so go put that over there. And be careful as the paint is not dry yet!"



And small engine parts placed for evidence?

Shanksville again!



What actually made the hole?

Probably this:



Now this makes a hell of a lot of sense!!

If I was to make a bet then I would bet that the missile that made a 15 foot hole in Shanksville was the same one that made the 15 - 16 foot hole in the Pentagon. And as with Shanksville and the Pentagon plane wreckage was added after the event!

That makes more sense to me rather that the Official Story.

Go figure!



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 07:15 AM
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a reply to: Nova937




Oh yeah that guy. Said he saw loads of bodies after he said for at least 4 times prior there were no bodies and no plane wreckage! Did he decide to change his glasses? Or just his testimony after being told to.

You are trying to twist his words just like all the conspiracy sites do.
When he said no bodies most people know he means no complete bodies.

The only way conspiracy believers can make their beliefs work is to twist peoples words and facts.

Try watching this video.




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