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Britain and Immigration - Ignorance is Bliss

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posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: grainofsand

I don't support any empires, especially not the modern sort. I just don't understand why the British empire is a focal point of your national pride. The Spanish and the Portuguese, from what I've seen, have a more detached view of their empires (not sure about the French). They don't obsess over them and make it a focal point of their nationalism.

You guys are just as bad as the Americans.


You are just generalising though.
In my real life social circles I don't actually know anyone who gives much of a toss about the former empire.
Perhaps it is whichever media you are watching which influences your perception of the average person in the UK?

Pretty much everyone I know does not wish for the government to just open its border to anyone who makes it to the EU.
The majority I know also intend to vote us out of the EU in next years referendum, as I will.
What nation are you from, may I ask?


I'm from Turkmenistan.
Interesting, I've never been there.
I could google/wiki it of course, but word on the street is always good, do you have many immigrants to your nation?
Where are they typically from? I assume your border is quite easy to slip through, so do they stay in your nation or move on elsewhere?




posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

We have Russians and Uzbeks here, most of whom are leftovers from the Soviet era. The Soviets were prone to displacing people and moving them around- workers, political prisoners, whatever.

There are not many people coming here to settle permanently.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:15 PM
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originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: grainofsand

We have Russians and Uzbeks here, most of whom are leftovers from the Soviet era. The Soviets were prone to displacing people and moving them around- workers, political prisoners, whatever.
Ah thanks, see that was interesting for me, it's why I like being on ATS, learning new snippets of information from people on the ground in other parts of the world.


There are not many people coming here to settle permanently.
See and that's the thing with most folk here in the UK, we know that English is a massive second language for much of the world, we know that the numbers of English speaking folk who live in horrible countries would move here in a heartbeat.
We couldn't take them all, so the UK has to defend its borders.

Should we take more from a moral perspective? Probably, but it will take international agreements between countries to decide such things, and until the world community can sort it out it is only sensible for Britain to lawfully defend its border.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: grainofsand

I don't support any empires, especially not the modern sort. I just don't understand why the British empire is a focal point of your national pride. The Spanish and the Portuguese, from what I've seen, have a more detached view of their empires (not sure about the French). They don't obsess over them and make it a focal point of their nationalism.

You guys are just as bad as the Americans.


You are just generalising though.
In my real life social circles I don't actually know anyone who gives much of a toss about the former empire.
Perhaps it is whichever media you are watching which influences your perception of the average person in the UK?

Pretty much everyone I know does not wish for the government to just open its border to anyone who makes it to the EU.
The majority I know also intend to vote us out of the EU in next years referendum, as I will.
What nation are you from, may I ask?


I'm from Turkmenistan.


So why the hate at Britain?


Don't worry we are not Americans we don't bite.

We know our governments done some crappy things but that speaks for few of the public here.

Honestly we are just normal people trying to get on with our lives.

We don't mind immigrants but it just has to be done sensiblely.

You wouldn't want 200,000 of us Brits turning up in you country illigaly and without any criminal record check would you?
God know you don't want a foot ball holigan from south london or a pikey slipping through your border!

edit on 6-8-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Makes sense. I admire much of your history btw, I could probably name every one of your monarchs from Plantagenet to Windsor.

What I dislike, however, is people presenting their country's past empires as a total force of good. That is what drove me to comment here. I constantly see Russians flat-out denying the Soviet political purges that affected every country under their thumb. They deny what happened here in Central Asia, they deny what happened in Hungary and Ukraine, they deny everything. They want to take the credit for "modernizing" us and building up industries here, but they don't want to acknowledge the blood stains. It's an unsettling trend I've noticed among nationalists all over the world.

So, forgive my rude entrance into this thread. It's just that I've been dealing with this kind of propaganda from Russians on the Internet for a long time, and now I'm seeing a lot of Westerners doing the same thing, which is surprising.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: grainofsand

Makes sense. I admire much of your history btw, I could probably name every one of your monarchs from Plantagenet to Windsor.

What I dislike, however, is people presenting their country's past empires as a total force of good. That is what drove me to comment here. I constantly see Russians flat-out denying the Soviet political purges that affected every country under their thumb. They deny what happened here in Central Asia, they deny what happened in Hungary and Ukraine, they deny everything. They want to take the credit for "modernizing" us and building up industries here, but they don't want to acknowledge the blood stains. It's an unsettling trend I've noticed among nationalists all over the world.

So, forgive my rude entrance into this thread. It's just that I've been dealing with this kind of propaganda from Russians on the Internet for a long time, and now I'm seeing a lot of Westerners doing the same thing, which is surprising.


Don't worry we are not Russians or Americans

We get taught here the good and bad of our past empire.

Everyone at school is taught about slavery, the wars with natives and our involvement with india .

We don't hide such bits.

We mostly grew out of nationalism after ww2 as we took the brunt of the consequences of when it goes wrong.
Don't get us wrong we are proud of our country but we don't shy away from the problems here.

edit on 6-8-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: SecretFace

Britain tried to adopt early version of agenda 21

Not working out ?



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: Korg Trinity
a reply to: 23432

It is exactly people of your quality and ethics that clearly adds value to the country, and your experience reflected that I believe.

It wasn't Britain that made you who you are... it was Britain that gave you the opportunity to make something of yourself and you did.

Unfortunately people looking in see the life people lead in the UK and think that because they are EU citizens they have a RIGHT to that life without actually doing anything or the bare minimum to attain it.

You are a credit to yourself and will be missed as a British person!

Korg.










Thank you for your kind words . I appreciate it .

One of the very first impression that I have had in UK was the idea of " Freedom " . I once had a car accident , a small one and naturally I waited for the police to arrive . When they have arrived , the pleasant manner in which they have treated me was something of an eye opener for me .

UK had a lesson to teach me and I was eager to learn ; the Value of Freedom & Individuality was something that I have learnt in UK and to this day I am gratefull for it .

One other thing that stood out for me was the politeness of everyone around me ; people used the " Please " word all the time and I was amazed by it . When I mentioned it to my father in law , he chuckled and said we are just that polite , that's all there is to it , he told me and he was actually correct .

Here in Turkey , there is a town called Didim (

Didim is a small town, popular seaside holiday resort, and district of Aydın Province on the Aegean coast of western Turkey, 123 km (76 mi) from the provincial capital city of Aydın.
Didim is the site of the antique city of Didyma with its ruined Temple of Apollo.
) which has become somewhat of an " English Town " because even the local council prints the utility bills in English due to high number of residents from UK .

I have visited Didim recently and went for a walk in the morning by the sea side . Everyone , including the local Turks that I have come across were saying " hello , good morning " with a smile on their faces .
It reminded me of England and I was pleased to see that this particular English culture was starting to take root in this part of Turkey .
I remembered vividly that while in Germany , it was " Verboten " to sit on the grass while in UK it was simply " Please " do not sit on the grass .

A small difference but it reminded me why I had choosen UK rather then Germany .
I smiled and had myself a little chuckle .

I could speak German and English when I was a young man but I preferred UK simply because it was " Better " imho.

I still have my house in UK and perhaps one day , we will return back home .

The UK immigration policy is delibrate and designed to keep the status quo as it is .

The immigration of Eastern Europeans into UK was something that no one has ever predicted but I would like to believe that given the chance these new comers will also perhaps learn the ways of Britain too .

Tomorrow I am off to an Aegean town to have a holiday with my family and this particular town where I went to high school have had no foreigners about 40 years ago . Today it is a different story , the population of this town ( Bodrum ) was about 8.000 back in the 1970's but recently the population has reached a staggering 500.000 people .

My point is that no one nation is spared from immigration and it is the new normal it seems .

For UK , it is a particularly hard situation to deal with but I believe the migration is only helping the population growth in the long term which UK desperately needs otherwise we can't pay the Bankers .


Cheers mate .



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: Talorc

Totally understand, denying the horrible bits of any empire is not my thing either, but many a parliamentary democracies came out of the British one, not all good, but not all bad. Just history now though.

I find your perspective from Turkmenistan very interesting, so thanks for the conversation and I say welcome to the forums.
...I noticed you only joined the other day, and hope to read more of your 'on the ground' replies from a country I've never visited.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

I disagree. 'One Europe' government just led to a situation where people refuse to claim asylum at their first safe nation, then are allowed to travel through the EU unhindered to get to their particular safe nation of choice.

well , while I see your point I however tend to disagree with the notion that the free movement in EU should only be available to those who have the " correct papers " . I tend to think that these migrants heading for UK says something good about UK and it is not just that we are a soft nation ; it is actually a testament that the Culture is somewhat more inclusive here .Besides what difference does really make , say to an Afghani who has claimed an asylum in Greece and upon being granted the " correct papers " still moves on to UK ?


The ones in Calais then discover that Britain actually has a border it is trying to defend, so they threaten drivers, slash the side curtains on lorries, criminally damage fences, and all in an attempt to illegally enter the UK, instead of claiming asylum in the other safe nations they passed through.

Surely , not all these people are criminals , are they ? Not all of them threaten the drivers of slash the tires or something like that . I feel a bit over stereo typing going on with your diagnosis of the situation .


Nope, those folk who disregard the law in France are most certainly not welcome in the UK.
I would agree to that notion but untill proven guilty , everyone is innocent , aren't they ?

It is logical to assume that if they disregard criminal law in France (when they are no longer fleeing oppression) then will treat British law with similar contempt.
This stand you take on this issue wouldn't stand scrutiny . It's the colour of law that you are applying rather then the Law itself .

You can have your one world government, I'm happy living on an island nation with a population which does not support such ideas of relinquishing it's sovereignty.


So much to be said about the issue of sovereignty and City of London's hegemony who is in charge of bringing the said one world government . Suffice to say that I am in favour of " Individual Sovereignty " ; I dislike the idea of giving it away to a political representative . This is obviously a subject for another discussion.

We will never going to have the kinda UK that you seem to want because simply put it is against the nature of politics in City Of London .



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: 23432
We will never going to have the kinda UK that you seem to want because simply put it is against the nature of politics in City Of London .

You imagine what I want.
Right now I support the UK government lawfully defending the border. I am in a majority in my country.
Unlucky, bleating on ATS ain't changing anything anytime soon.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: 23432

The illegal migrant crisis though presents problems those in power can't ignore.

It obvious they don't care about overloading the infrastructure as those in power use private schools and hospitals.

But this new wave presents security concerns. Fact is we are in a defacto war at the moment with Isis and illegal immigration of undocumented mulims from Libya, Sudan, eqypt, Syria and Iraq are massive security risks.

TPTB might want immigration but they want to know everyone that enters our borders.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: ladyinwaiting


Yeah I think Korg is full of crap to be honest.
Yes of course high levels of immigration has put stresses and strains on the infrastructure of the UK and certainly wages have been driven down... but the picture he paints is some nightmarish, doomsday nonsense that is simply scaremongering bollocks.

Immigrants have contributed £25bn to our economy and have worked MORE and received LESS in benefits than the average Briton

www.theguardian.com...


It's also the Government that is not building enough new housing and social housing and not updating the infrastructure.
We've needed housing and services sorted out LONG before this "flood" of immigrants came in the last decade and a half... but successive governments have failed to do anything.
They'd rather allow the the rich and powerful at the top to take all of the money and dodge and avoid tax and pay NOTHING into the society in which they supposedly exist.

It's easy to blame the immigrants... times are hard and people like to blame those that are different and "not from here"
But it's complete BS. The only one's at fault are successive governments for either not having a handle on the numbers coming and going, and not having more in place to ensure that the people we need for the jobs we have, are coming in.

But yeah... Korg and others will tell you it's the fault of those "Bloody Foreigners"

*rolls eyes*
Tens of thousands of little white children targetted and gang raped by foreigners is the deathnell for immigration. 25 billion lies to facilitate the rape and destruction of indigenous peoples. All in the name of what exactly? Christianity?
Everybody is fed up of bending over backwards to accomodate rapists,murderers and religious fanatics who do not integrate and laugh at our foolish generosity.
Where is the british dignity now?
On the floor.

Years ago the racist warned that the foreigners would end up taking over. God they never told us that our children would be systematically targeted and gang raped repeatedly in the tens of thousands.

Disregard.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: 23432
We will never going to have the kinda UK that you seem to want because simply put it is against the nature of politics in City Of London .

You imagine what I want.
Right now I support the UK government lawfully defending the border. I am in a majority in my country.
Unlucky, bleating on ATS ain't changing anything anytime soon.


When a Law becomes unenforceable that law is not worth the paper it's written on .
Would you shoot these people too ?
Make no mistake , that is the path this Lawfully defending the border policy is going to take us .
The simple and inevitable fact is that this policy is favoured by those who own the economy and there is nothing can be done to change it . Simply put it is an economic necessity at the moment to let these people in to UK .

I also want a regulated immigration but that doesn't suit the agenda of those who hold power in UK and you are of course correct that no amount of bleating on ATS is going to change it .

When all is said and done , you , me and other UK citizens will be microchipped and monitored 24/7 so that no one can disturb the status quo .
Ironically , northeners might just try to throw the spanners in the works .



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: 23432
Simply put it is an economic necessity at the moment to let these people in to UK .
The UK government and a majority of the citizens of the UK disagree.



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: 23432

The illegal migrant crisis though presents problems those in power can't ignore.

It obvious they don't care about overloading the infrastructure as those in power use private schools and hospitals.

But this new wave presents security concerns. Fact is we are in a defacto war at the moment with Isis and illegal immigration of undocumented mulims from Libya, Sudan, eqypt, Syria and Iraq are massive security risks.

TPTB might want immigration but they want to know everyone that enters our borders.


Those in power will use these new wave of immigrants to take away the notion that an Englishmen's home is his castle.

They want the old Brits to die sooner rather then later thats why they dont care about the NHS .

Funny enough those returning ISIS #heads will be used as an excuse to erode more freedoms .



posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: 23432
Simply put it is an economic necessity at the moment to let these people in to UK .
The UK government and a majority of the citizens of the UK disagree.


UK government is under the orders from the City Of London and if you tought that the politicians care about citizens , well , I refer you to good old George Carlin . He puts it rather well ;




posted on Aug, 6 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: 23432

I thank you, oh enlightened one

...interesting personal opinion.



posted on Aug, 7 2015 @ 03:35 AM
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originally posted by: Talorc
Britain deserves every immigrant they get. They have an obligation.

You wanted your empire, now you reap the benefits. All of the benefits, which includes immigrants.


Britain has no obligation to European Migrants what so ever...

Britain doesn't have an empire.... we used to have an empire in ancient History....

You are clearly one of the deluded Europeans that think Britain is part of your socialist states of Europe.... We are not!



posted on Aug, 7 2015 @ 03:37 AM
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originally posted by: TSOM87

originally posted by: XyZeR
www.youtube.com...
Nuff said


www.youtube.com...

Double Nuff said





Absolutely true!




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