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Britain and Immigration - Ignorance is Bliss

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posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity

I'd love to see your four bullet points actually happen but, sadly, I don't think they will. Call me cynical. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but government is complacent (not to mention weak), the £ men in London prefer to stay in the EU (allegedly) and it's going to take a huge heave of a sea change to change people's opinion. Le sigh.




posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: MrCrow

Who knows, the more people from the EU criticise us in an attempt to force migration then the more Brits who will resent it.
It also looks like Cameron hasn't got much of a chance getting a decent deal or any treaty change before the referendum, so the 'out' option will be looking more attractive than continued uncontrolled immigration from Eastern EU nations.

I'm pretty hopeful to be honest, and if the EU descends even more to #e before our vote, then it could actually gain enough support for a close vote out.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 09:55 AM
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It is because of empire. The present is shaped by the past. It is all related, whether you want to believe it or not. Why do we have it so good here? Maybe because British wealth was stolen from other nations. It still is. We may no longer have the empire but we still do the invasion and plundering of nations for resources.

The elite don't want to lose their wealth or power and will do whatever it takes to hold onto it, including selling us all to the highest bidder. They own or sit on boards or own significant shares in the corporations that employ the less-than-minimum wage workers from other countries. They get to increase their profits and pay their workers less.

I don't know what UK you live in, but I really doubt it is the same one I live in. In my experience and perception, things have got progressively worse since around 2001, and went downhill faster 2008. The only people who life is getting better for are the elite. Which is standard. You are also completely overestimating both the British people, and the so-called democratic system we live under. Remember that we are being screwed over by a party that won 29% of the votes.

Also not once have I stated anywhere I am opposed to immigration. I am not, obviously I don't think the extremists should be allowed in, but as a person who has benefited from immigration multiculturalism, it would be majorly hypocritical to be anti-immigration. I am all for people coming here to live a better life, especially as the nation they are leaving is war torn or mis-ruled because of British interference. They deserve it.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: MrCrow
a reply to: Korg Trinity

I'd love to see your four bullet points actually happen but, sadly, I don't think they will. Call me cynical. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but government is complacent (not to mention weak), the £ men in London prefer to stay in the EU (allegedly) and it's going to take a huge heave of a sea change to change people's opinion. Le sigh.


I think you will be surprised. from the businesses I've talking with over the last few years most are pro leaving the EU, citing that EU meddling has cost far more than the trade benefits, and look forward to forming trade agreements with other new markets that they wouldn't be able to reach in the current climate.

The Strength of the pound has been kept where it is as a barrier to buffer against the constantly weak and fluctuating Euro, if we had strong trade agreements with other nations we could set a currency exchange rate on trades with the rest of the world that would mean we could keep the pound strong to keep business as usual but offer a more attractive deal else where other than Europe.

This would be a very positive thing for Businesses.

Regardless of what the polls might show, all you have to do is ask 10 people around you at random... should we leave the EU.... this will give you all the information you need to know about what will happen at the Referendum.

As for Foreign Aid... that one has been recently shown to be a complete waste of money... tracing one lot of money went on spending for an entertainment TV show about Fish in Ethiopia. The draw strings are closing....




posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Firefly_
Remember that we are being screwed over by a party that won 29% of the votes.
Nope, the Con's won 36.9% of the vote:
www.bbc.co.uk...

If you want to complain about the first past the post system then please do, and while you're at it raise the issue of the SNP getting 4.7% of the UK vote and 56 MP's, while UKIP got 12.6% of the UK vote and only 1 MP.
Yep, I'm all for proportional representation.

Either way, moaning on ATS will get you nothing, your opinion is in the minority, and there is nothing the international community can do to force the UK to take migrants from safe EU nations without the conventions on refugees being changed.
That isn't gonna happen any time soon. That pleases me.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: Firefly_
It is because of empire. The present is shaped by the past. It is all related, whether you want to believe it or not. Why do we have it so good here?


You haven't a clue what your talking about, and are now showing yourself up to being a British Hater... probably from a country that looks at what the British have build with Envious eyes...

Yes life is a serious of steps.... why don't you go back to where you originally came from and start making step towards making your country better... instead of bashing the country where on average life is clearly better than where you originated!
edit on 11-8-2015 by Korg Trinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: Korg Trinity

Sure I hate certain aspects of Britain. I hate what the ruling elite has done historically, and what it continues to do. This does not mean I hate what good people have fought tooth and nail to achieve, despite the efforts of those who continue to abuse their power at our expense.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: Firefly_

...and yet you wish to open the border to any migrants in safe EU nations who wish to claim asylum in the UK?
I am glad you are in the minority, but go ahead, write to your MP.
The UK government is acting in the UK's interests by protecting the border, so elite conspiracies or whatever, I support that specific policy.

Please do explain how you think defending the border from illegal entry by thousands of migrants in safe EU countries is in any way damaging to the average UK citizen though?



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

If I had my way, people would be able to live in any nation they want to which best provides for their needs and way of life. As things stand we are an EU nation, and like it or not, we are signed up to various laws and treaties which we must adhere to. We get our chance to have our say in this finally next year.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: Firefly_
As things stand we are an EU nation, and like it or not, we are signed up to various laws and treaties which we must adhere to.
Yep, and right now the UK is adhering to ALL the laws and treaties which it is signed up to.
This includes lawfully defending its border.
So unlucky, there is no requirement for the UK to take migrants from safe EU nations, no matter how much you may wish there was.

Oh, and the vote next year is for in/out of the EU, not a negotiation on the UK taking migrants from safe nations.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I thought EU citizens could live and work anywhere in the EU? As for the vote, immigration is one of the major issues and a vote to leave the EU WILL have an effect on both immigrants from EU and non-EU nations, and the way the borders are policed.



posted on Aug, 11 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: Firefly_
a reply to: grainofsand

I thought EU citizens could live and work anywhere in the EU? As for the vote, immigration is one of the major issues and a vote to leave the EU WILL have an effect on both immigrants from EU and non-EU nations, and the way the borders are policed.
Yep, and the migrants in Calais are not EU citizens.
A vote out of the EU will only really affect EU citizens automatic right to travel and work because the UK currently has independent control over who we allow into the country from outside the EU.

Our border issue will still face exactly the same challenges if we leave the EU because they will still be camped at Calais trying to get into the UK.
In or out of the EU there is no requirement for the UK to take migrants from any safe country anywhere. That is decided by international conventions agreed at the UN, not the EU.

*Edit*
I repeat, the UK is complying with ALL international treaties, laws, and conventions on refugees, including lawfully defending its border.
It is something you will have to take up with the UN through your political representatives if you want that to change, but while the majority of the UK population agrees with government policy it is unlikely to change.

Also, for the conventions to be changed it would require a majority agreement among all countries of the world, and I don't see countries like the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc voting to change agreements so they will be required to take migrants from safe nations.
It ain't gonna happen.
edit on 11.8.2015 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 06:07 AM
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news.google.com... bLVejyBsSy3gG40qKYCw&url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33881471

From BBC News:




45 minutes ago
From the section London

Five members of one family have been arrested on suspicion of terror offences in east London.

Scotland Yard arrested a 51-year-old man, a woman aged 53 and three females aged 16, 17 and 19.

All were arrested on suspicion of possessing information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism. They are in police custody.

The man was also arrested on suspicion of possessing false identity documents.

Police said the 16-year-old girl had previously been arrested in July on suspicion of preparation of terrorism and had been bailed until September.



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 06:09 AM
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The struggle against migrants is clear Either/or, Any half measures leads to our own destruction. There is no other choice than to fight a pitiless battle against them in every form.
If the Migrants want to fight, it's fine with us. We have wanted that fight for a long time now.

There is no room in this world for migrants anymore. Them or us? one of us has to go. If this battle is not fought to it's end
Then take a look at the UK 500 years from now. I think you will find but few images of God.



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Then take a look at the UK 500 years from now. I think you will find but few images of God.

Haha do you see many 'images of god' in the UK right now?
What the hell is that supposed to mean anyway, Shiva, Zeus, Ra, Jupiter, Thor, YHWH?
I don't believe in any of them, and I don't really see the relevance in a thread about the UK lawfully defending its border and meeting all its obligations in international laws, treaties, and conventions.



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Then take a look at the UK 500 years from now. I think you will find but few images of God.

Haha do you see many 'images of god' in the UK right now?
What the hell is that supposed to mean anyway,

Patience...all will be revealed soon.



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

Lol, bit more cryptic than usual for you Solo, has your god spoken to you or something?
You do know this is the Political Issues forum yeah, not Religion, or Dreams and Prophecies?



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The struggle against migrants is clear Either/or, Any half measures leads to our own destruction. There is no other choice than to fight a pitiless battle against them in every form.
If the Migrants want to fight, it's fine with us. We have wanted that fight for a long time now.

There is no room in this world for migrants anymore. Them or us? one of us has to go. If this battle is not fought to it's end
Then take a look at the UK 500 years from now. I think you will find but few images of God.

Is this a Poe or what in the name of the wee man have you been drinking?



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Lol, bit more cryptic than usual for you Solo, has your god spoken to you or something?
You do know this is the Political Issues forum yeah, not Religion, or Dreams and Prophecies?

Oh it's political alright.. I let the cat out the bag tomorrow.



posted on Aug, 12 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The struggle against migrants is clear Either/or, Any half measures leads to our own destruction. There is no other choice than to fight a pitiless battle against them in every form.
If the Migrants want to fight, it's fine with us. We have wanted that fight for a long time now.

There is no room in this world for migrants anymore. Them or us? one of us has to go. If this battle is not fought to it's end
Then take a look at the UK 500 years from now. I think you will find but few images of God.

Is this a Poe or what in the name of the wee man have you been drinking?


It's a social experiment...




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