Existential nihilism

I would recommend staying away from nihilism, nothing good comes from it. Just like reading Nietzsche, very depressing stuff.

I don't see any intrinsic value to life from the universes perspective. But from a living beings point of view, value is placed on everything. I don't think that the universe has any meaning that we can understand. If it has a purpose, that would be decided by living beings and not the stuff that the universe is made of. I think that grading value is a concept that only a living being can assess. Surely rocks, metals, and nitrogen don't have feelings and don't grade things on any kind of scale. But plants do. And bugs do. Bugs like some things and don't like other things, so they attach value to things and develop some concepts in a clear way.

I do not think any of this is insignificant though, but only because there is life here to experience it. Without life, the universe would be pointless. As far as purpose? We choose our purpose. We can change our purpose at any time. I do not think we are given purpose.

I personally place a great value on my life and those close to me. I place a little less value on those who i don't know, and even less on those i don't like.


a reply to: Mugly

If everything is meaningless, so is nihilism.

Maybe the intrinsic purpose of life, is to live.

originally posted by: Mugly

originally posted by: notmyrealname
If life has no meaning and you must invent one, why bother having it? I would not like to be in a room of people that did not value life.

who said anything about value?
im talking about meaning in the big picture.

what do you think your life means in the whole of the universe?
do you think anything you do will mean anything in 500 million years?

My life is just as valid as all and any other in the uni/multiverse.

I know that things that I have done will be remembered and mean something in 500 million years.

Thanks for asking, you have proven that my life has meaning.

a reply to: Mugly

Your life is a joke.
Not even a joke for it to be a joke there would have to be a reason to laugh, and existential nihilism annihilates any reason to laugh but at the utter despondency of existence. So Mugly, do you ever want to laugh again?

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

My implication was simply that if what everyone values is different and everyone has a different truth, then it's no wonder we have skyrocketing murder, theft, crime, rates. My value on your life, property, etc., my be very different than your value on them and vice versa, and similarly, my value and respect for larger society and its laws might also be very different.

And if I have been taught all through life that the only thing that has any real meaning is the reality I create for myself, why should I have any respect for you, the law, your property, etc.?

What reason is there to keep me or anyone else from going out and buying up a rifle and ammo and shooting as many people as I can? In my created reality which is the only one that has validity or meaning in this theory, they don't have to have any purpose or meaning or value to me, and why should it matter if they have meaning to anyone else? All that matters is the reality I create.

All considerations of God aside, this is an empty and potentially very ugly philosophy.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: ketsuko

It may be more beautiful that way, in a sense. Human beings finding their own purpose for living. In reality, it's what humans have always been doing, because as of yet, no real purpose can be shown to exist. Everyone already has their own ideas on whether or not there is an official purpose and what that purpose may be.

And among any official purpose a person may believe exists, they also find for themselves other purposes. Passions, if you will. For example, someone with a love of forests and trees. Maybe they make it their purpose in life to plant as many of them as possible. For themselves to enjoy, and future generations.

Whether or not an ultimate purpose to life exists or not, life is still what you make it. If you can't find a purpose to live, or feel that life without an official built in purpose is pointless, I am truly sorry.

As for respecting other's beliefs on the subject, there is no reason to think that would suddenly change if somehow it was realized life has no actual meaning in the grander scheme. Though, I will admit that there are some people who need to believe there is an inherent meaning, or they would break down (for some reason). Maybe they'd be the ones to stop respecting others.

perhaps those people dont trust themselves with that kind of power over their own lives. "jesus take the wheel" and all that.

people who dont trust themselves with the power of auto-determinism wont get the benefits of it.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
perhaps those people dont trust themselves with that kind of power over their own lives. "jesus take the wheel" and all that.

I think that's exactly what it is in many cases.

In fact I only added that bit about some having the need to believe or they would break down, because a Christian friend of mine told me as much as I was writing the post.

a reply to: ketsuko

My value on your life, property, etc., my be very different than your value on them and vice versa, and similarly, my value and respect for larger society and its laws might also be very different.

You don't need to value my property to value kindness and respect, and by extension respect the property of other people and be nice to them. But if you don't particularly value kindness then you might not be a very friendly person, which is fine too, the world needs its a-holes.

And if I have been taught all through life that the only thing that has any real meaning is the reality I create for myself, why should I have any respect for you, the law, your property, etc.?

You don't need to respect any of those things, but you are a conscious and logical being who can predict what will happen if you're not nice to others or you break the law, and it's up to you whether or not you want to face those consequences. It's irrelevant whether things have implicit meaning or not, because at the end of the day it's up to you whether or not you want to respect those meanings.

What reason is there to keep me or anyone else from going out and buying up a rifle and ammo and shooting as many people as I can?

There is no cosmic law preventing you. Even right now there is nothing preventing you from doing that if you really want to. But you have decided not to do that and I'm sure you have many logical reasons for not doing it, reasons which are partly learned from others and reasons which you've developed on your own. We don't need a book to tell us that murder is wrong, morality doesn't come from a book, it comes from within.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: TzarChasm
perhaps those people dont trust themselves with that kind of power over their own lives. "jesus take the wheel" and all that.

I think that's exactly what it is in many cases.

In fact I only added that bit about some having the need to believe or they would break down, because a Christian friend of mine told me as much as I was writing the post.

They would rather surrender their autonomy for the guarantee of paradise than risk the possibility of damnation via free will. But as Franklin said: those who sacrifice essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither.

In a relatively short amount of time, every single person that has ever posted on ATS will be gone, and no-one will remember any of us. We may as well have never existed, with only the existence of our offspring's offspring as evidence of our existence.

We have a short stay on this damp rock, hurtling through the cosmos on a crash course to oblivion. The chances of any of us being born were so remote that we should all enjoy every second of life as best we can and take pleasure in the fact that we got to exist at all.

Worrying about us not having a purpose in this universe seems like the ultimate form of self entitlement.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Have my star, good sir/lady.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Prezbo369

Have my star, good sir/lady.

Ah the real reason for existence!

a reply to: Prezbo369

i was being sincere. requiring a purpose beyond that which you make for yourself does indeed strike me as self entitlement. why does anyone NEED a purpose beyond that which they give themselves? do you need someone to walk up and gift you a job? or someone to just give you a house and a car? "here, i have this available, go nuts". no, we earn it. we create the opportunity and use it. just because its not a divine mandate handed down from the stars, doesnt make it less worthwhile.

in other words, exactly what you said.