Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

My belief is that the creator let's us create. His only job is to let us come down to this world and experience it and grow or not. After we die, we perhaps learn the lessons and evolve or grow, chose to stay with the creator or come down again. I don't think it's a typical Christian belief where he has a purpose and plan for us all and the he don't make no junk stuff. I think he lets the world go as it will with all the happiness and suffering....we control all of it. I don't think God answers prayers like that....I think if we are evolved enough or have faith enough we can tap into that power of god....but then again...maybe not.

While quoting Dr. Sagan:

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.

The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions.

In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?

If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate....Try science.

... and finally my favorite ...

I worry that, especially as the Millennium edges nearer, pseudoscience and superstition will seem year by year more tempting, the siren song of unreason more sonorous and attractive. Where have we heard it before? Whenever our ethnic or national prejudices are aroused, in times of scarcity, during challenges to national self-esteem or nerve, when we agonize about our diminished cosmic place and purpose, or when fanaticism is bubbling up around us-then, habits of thought familiar from ages past reach for the controls.

The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir.

Carl Sagan Quotes on Religion

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DeadSeraph

It's made it 6 pages and we're starting to make progress?

We have? Maybe a bit.
But has the OP contributed a jot?

His job was merely to wind us all up. He succeeded. LOL

Been there. Done that.

originally posted by: Konduit

originally posted by: Answer
Carl Sagan was a brilliant man but I would define Atheists as "people who require evidence in order to believe."

There are extremists in every group but I don't think the majority of Atheists are saying "there is absolutely no god and I have evidence to back it up!"

Maybe you have Agnostic confused with Atheism. By definition being Agnostic means requiring irrefutable evidence before making a clear and concise judgment, which the Atheist crowd is not exactly known for.

No confusion here.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
I'm just not sure why this subject always descends into asshattery.

Because similar debates have happened so many times on ATS and nothing new is ever presented.

This horse is dead, buried, decomposed, fossilized, and on display in a museum dedicated to pointless topics but we're still beating it mercilessly.

I think it's a question that could actually warrant it's own thread. Why do people have such a difficult time approaching the subject objectively, and find it so easy to approach it subjectively? Some psychoanalysis would be fun; but I digress.

I agree it's been done. But there is a fundamental reason why it's still done today, long after the great greek philosophers argued it to death.

The only problem with believing in a creator is when you force others to conform to your belief system.

I think my previous post answers your question:

originally posted by: arimass101
a reply to: liejunkie01

How could something physical and limited exist without there being a cause for its existence? Yet how could there be a god if no body created him? Both dont make a lot of sense but you have to agree that these are the only two possibilities. What makes more sense? Limited quantity of existence that always existed without anything limiting its quantity of existence, existing without anything making it exist, and eventually developing and changing itself from simple into being more complex or that there exists an unlimited creator whose above any physicality and time who brought limited existence from non existence and makes the entire creation exist?

a reply to: Answer

tried that but no.... even the ugly ones don't like me. I'm thinking about rethinking my bathing causes leprosy beliefs and taking a shower. they still have those right? God it's been a long time.

also why'd the creator maje me short when he knows short people are subconsciously discriminated against by everyone else.

the creator seems like a jerk. all I wanted was to be reasonably attractive and over 5'5" but noooooooo. i also wanted a pepsi, just one stinking Pepsi and they wouldn't give it to me! and they say I'm crazy!?!

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: arimass101
Your Op sounds a lot like the Hindu texts "The Upanishads". If you have not read it I would recommend it. It could help strengthen your argument.

oll.libertyfund.org...
Thus we find, for example, in the Śvetāśvatara Upanishad (1. 1):—
‘What is the cause? Brahma? Whence are we born?
Whereby do we live? And on what are we established?
Overruled by whom, in pains and pleasures,
Do we live our various conditions, O ye theologians?’

a reply to: Gryphon66

More quotes from Dr. Sagan:

"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid."

“I am not an atheist. An atheist is someone who has compelling evidence that there is no Judeo-Christian-Islamic God. I am not that wise, but neither do I consider there to be anything approaching adequate evidence for such a god. Why are you in such a hurry to make up your mind? Why not simply wait until there is compelling evidence?”

“My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it . . . An agnostic is somebody who doesn’t believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I’m agnostic.”

In a nutshell Carl Sagan defined both Religion and Atheism as nothing more than two different belief systems, however ironic it may seem.

Carl Sagan denied being an atheist. So what did he believe?
"Atheism is very stupid." - Carl Sagan

a reply to: Answer

Oh look here comes page eight.

See you can not prove God doesn't exist.
Yet you heckle the opposition as if you know something.
Why not help out the other 95% of us and fill us in with your
knowledge on the subject? Or is all you know is the opposition
doesn't have any evidence? Which really means nothing.

I'm tired sorry for typos and bad grammar.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Isurrender73


Multiverse, String Theory, Expanding and Collapsing theories can't be proven. So the scientific atheist has to have faith in one of these concepts.

Incorrect. You see, some people are actually able to say "I don't know" instead of simply choosing from a list of possibilities.

I know that the religious folks love to use the word "faith" and "atheist" in the same sentence but it isn't accurate.

Then you have faith in I don't know, which sounds more agnostic than atheist.

a reply to: Konduit

Man, I'm liking this guy more and more! I've never seen those quotes from him so thanks for sharing!

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Answer

tried that but no.... even the ugly ones don't like me. I'm thinking about rethinking my bathing causes leprosy beliefs and taking a shower. they still have those right? God it's been a long time.

also why'd the creator maje me short when he knows short people are subconsciously discriminated against by everyone else.

the creator seems like a jerk. all I wanted was to be reasonably attractive and over 5'5" but noooooooo. i also wanted a pepsi, just one stinking Pepsi and they wouldn't give it to me! and they say I'm crazy!?!

Hookers.

You should pay for hookers.

Why was this moved to Creationism? This has nothing to do with religion and evolution??

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Answer

Oh look here comes page eight.

See you can not prove God exists.
Yet you heckle the opposition as if you know something.
Why not help out the other 95% of us and fill us in with your
knowledge on the subject? Or is all you know is the opposition
doesn't have any evidence? Which really means nothing.

a reply to: arimass101

It has to do with the proof of a creator, hence creation. What's the issue there??

a reply to: Answer

I know read again please.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
tried that but no.... even the ugly ones don't like me. I'm thinking about rethinking my bathing causes leprosy beliefs and taking a shower. they still have those right? God it's been a long time.

Take one every day for health of mind, body, and spirit.

also why'd the creator make [auto correct] me short when he knows short people are subconsciously discriminated against by everyone else.

Genetic codes. We are the blink of an eye. Billions came before, and hopefully if we don't keep fugging it up too bad, afterward.

the creator seems like a jerk. all I wanted was to be reasonably attractive and over 5'5" but noooooooo. i also wanted a pepsi, just one stinking Pepsi and they wouldn't give it to me! and they say I'm crazy!?!

It's not your fault. It's your parent's .. parent's .. parent's .. parent's .. fault, and God made them too.

a reply to: r0xor

Questions you can only find the answers for within yourself. Which is what makes those questions so profound.

No one can prove Brahma, but you can find Brahma when you look within yourself.

Unfortunately most never even begin the search for Self (the Eternal Spirit).