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Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

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posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Answer




There are plenty of people on this planet who have their lives greatly restricted by their chosen (or sometimes forced) religion.


Yes let the world be only of those who believe the
other 95% of the present worlds pop is either ignorant or delusioinal.
But never at the same time both because of religion!
Not to be confused with belief in a higher power.
An ultimate existance in personification.
A.K.A. El Light of Eternal Mind


Isn't it wonderfully easy to present an argument when you selectively quote lines and take them out of context?

I'm going to try it...




posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: Phage

It wouldn't be possible for anyone to present a case either for or against the existence of God WITHOUT having a stance from either direction. I don't get what that particular gripe is all about.

I guess what we NEED is an atheist to create a thread claiming to prove the existence of God. That won't ever happen so....
edit on 2-8-2015 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs
95% of the present worlds pop is either ignorant or delusioinal.



Aw man, that's harsh. Why do you hate people so much?



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.

Myself and my experience though is to small a sample size to equate to a scientific experiment or proof, I get that. But...man...My mind has been blown.
edit on 2-8-2015 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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a reply to: Wookiep

I don't get what that particular gripe is all about.

I think it has to do with this post from the OP.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Answer

Correct. Limiting beliefs are limiting. This is a tautology.

People create their own life experiences with their Faith/Beliefs.

Beliefs of limitation = a life of limitation.


Yes, you are correct.

Some choose it, some have it thrust upon them.
In either case, it is life variables.



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:08 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.


Have you considered the possibility that you may be gullible and the psychic is good at their job?

Edit:

This reminds me of a trick I pulled on my buddy. I was holding a deck of cards and I knew where the queen of hearts was located in the deck. I told him "think about a card and don't tell me what it is... just focus very hard on it and visualize the card." I split the deck in two and showed him the queen of hearts, saying "this is your card." His response was "WHAT THE HELL!? How did you do that!?"

The vast majority of people will pick the queen of hearts or the ace of spades. I basically had a 50/50 chance.
edit on 8/2/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Answer

Nah.
I'm not a Christian but I capitalize that (and God, and Bible) out of respect for the beliefs of others.

Doesn't change the fact that the OP does not, in fact, present a logical argument of any sort.



I capitalize Christian and Bible because it's proper gramar. The capitalization of "him" was the most telling. That's a Christian thing.


I, an atheist, capitalizes Him and He and God as respect for those few who truly get the message and live it by how they treat others.

Its not a recognization that Jesus or a god exists or existed.






edit on 2-8-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.


Have you considered the possibility that you may be gullible and the psychic is good at their job?


Yes. However, without any prompting she told me that a family member would get a job in 6...6 weeks, 6 months she didn't know...Walla in 6 weeks a job offer for substantially more money came. She's said a few other things as well....impossible to have researched it or influence it. Yeah, could be coincidences but...

I have written down several other predictions, so I'll know. Again, not really proof.

Back on point, I can't really prove why I believe in a creator either. I just do based on research and life experiences and lot's of reading and soul searching. I'm not one to sit and pray or anything like that either....
edit on 2-8-2015 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:14 PM
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a reply to: Phage

Heh, I'm not sure but they might not like that particular word. I think many spiritual and even Christian people feel the same, I don't like it either because by defenition it means slavery/bondage.

One of my first threads ever was about that, actually.

Here it is if anyone is interested - www.abovetopsecret.com...

With that said, there is no question that the OP believes in a diety. It's a non issue IMO.
edit on 2-8-2015 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:14 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.


Have you considered the possibility that you may be gullible and the psychic is good at their job?


Yes. However, without any prompting she told me that a family member would get a job in 6...6 weeks, 6 months she didn't know...Walla in 6 weeks a job offer for substantially more money came. She's said a few other things as well....impossible to have researched it or influence it. Yeah, could be coincidences but...


So you admit that it could all be coincidental but you're allowing those coincidences to reinforce your belief in a creator?

You must have been leaning that way already.



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:15 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.


Have you considered the possibility that you may be gullible and the psychic is good at their job?


Yes. However, without any prompting she told me that a family member would get a job in 6...6 weeks, 6 months she didn't know...Walla in 6 weeks a job offer for substantially more money came. She's said a few other things as well....impossible to have researched it or influence it. Yeah, could be coincidences but...


So you admit that it could all be coincidental but you're allowing those coincidences to reinforce your belief in a creator?

You must have been leaning that way already.


I was ....but I'm also one to sit and read a Richard Dawkins book as well.



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.


Have you considered the possibility that you may be gullible and the psychic is good at their job?


Yes. However, without any prompting she told me that a family member would get a job in 6...6 weeks, 6 months she didn't know...Walla in 6 weeks a job offer for substantially more money came. She's said a few other things as well....impossible to have researched it or influence it. Yeah, could be coincidences but...


So you admit that it could all be coincidental but you're allowing those coincidences to reinforce your belief in a creator?

You must have been leaning that way already.


I was ....but I'm also one to sit and read a Richard Dawkins book as well.


It's good to see things from multiple perspectives.



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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I guess you guys are too scared to debate from the question I asked


Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?


Otherwise your discussion should be on debating with me regarding the following replies that I replied:


originally posted by: arimass101
a reply to: liejunkie01

How could something physical and limited exist without there being a cause for its existence? Yet how could there be a god if no body created him? Both dont make a lot of sense but you have to agree that these are the only two possibilities. What makes more sense? Limited quantity of existence that always existed without anything limiting its quantity of existence, existing without anything making it exist, and eventually developing and changing itself from simple into being more complex or that there exists an unlimited creator whose above any physicality and time who brought limited existence from non existence and makes the entire creation exist?



originally posted by: arimass101
a reply to: TechniXcality

If whatever brought the universe into existence isn't an omnipotent intelligible being it is limited. If it is limited then something outside must of caused it to be limited (unless you want to say that it was originally unlimited and created this limitation onto itself (which is impossible since if its unlimited it can make itself unlimited again)) which means that it isn't the first creator and what ever limited it, is the first creator.

Conclusion: There has to be a first omnipotent intelligible creator because if what created the universe is limited then there has to be an unlimited limiter.



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: arimass101
and so forth can only be discussed after this root question is answered: Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?


If the universe formed through a random anomaly, then random anomalies are the work of God, and one can look for them in their own lives, if those incidents hold considerable meaning, which is up to the individual person to decide.

If a "conscious" being did it, where did he come from?



The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.


My interpretation is thus:

In the beginning, everything was defined and formed, if it were not, how was it the beginning? Then, the laws of Physics demonstrated themselves through automatic logic of what is and is not true, which doesn't take being created, because things always have been true or not true. The author was trying to grasp, understand, and explain the idea of everything existing as it does; nature, outer space, the sun, photons, electrons, gases, water, the atmosphere, gravity, all of that. It was an expression of that, which doesnt add or take away from the underlying truth of whether or not an intelligent force designed the universe, physics, and everything else as we know it.

Although, being a Deistic Evolutionist has its argumentative limitations.


edit on 8/2/2015 by r0xor because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:20 PM
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It would appear to be more logical to believe in a Creator than the universe existing forever. But that leads to the next question. Is it logical to think that there was always a Creator and what did this creator do before he created the Universe?

One theory is that it's infinite creation sort of like....A creator creates a creator who creates a creator who creates a creator who creates a creator. Is that logical?

Obviously, if we go back to the big bang, that in itself is illogical as an end all. Something had to proceed that...infinite Universes giving birth to infinite universes?



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: arimass101
I guess you guys are too scared to debate from the question I asked
Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?


You guessed it, we're scared.

A couple of us already pointed out that you've limited the discussion to two options and that isn't logical.

You don't get to say "the option is A or B, now choose B and I'll tell you why you're wrong." That's not how this works.
edit on 8/2/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:23 PM
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Whenever I see this debate I just think of what the late great Carl Sagan said on the subject.

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed."

Carl Sagan Personal Life and Beliefs.
edit on 2-8-2015 by Konduit because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:25 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: arimass101
I guess you guys are too scared to debate from the question I asked
Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?


You guessed it, we're scared.

A couple of us already pointed out that you've limited the discussion to two options and that isn't logical.

You don't get to say "the option is A or B, now choose B and I'll tell you why you're wrong." That's not how this works.


So then expand those options and iterate your position instead of creating straw man arguments and attacking religion. It really is possible to have these sort of discussions in a logical and respectful fashion. Rare, but possible.



posted on Aug, 2 2015 @ 11:26 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph




Rare, but possible.

You may want to reconsider.
Read the thread title.



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