Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: mOjOm

Lol I was responding to someone else...

Yes, LOL, that happens in an emotional thread. LOL

a reply to: mOjOm

All types of perfection would be beneficial, genetic code maximized, not one flaw, you would never get sick, ever.
A vain side effect is we would all look pretty good too, naturally.
Mental and emotional perfection we don't even know what that would feel like.
But you could continue to grow as person, perfecting whatever craft you desire for example, growing fruit to make the perfect wine, building and playing musical instruments, traveling and exploring the entire planet, and so on.
Perfection would not be limiting or stagnate it would be invigorating and allow people to pursue many hobbies in excellence.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

it will suffice for you to admit the universe was created, when you have done so then you can only admit it was done so by a supreme being which can only quantify them as God by definition...

that is also why I have said there can be only one God...

I may believe it's the God of my belief system but that is irrelevant to this discussion...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

it will suffice for you to admit the universe was created, when you have done so then you can only admit it was done so by a supreme being which can only quantify them as God by definition...

that is also why I have said there can be only one God...

I may believe it's the God of my belief system but that is irrelevant to this discussion...

Yes, your God is your God, you don't have to prove anything to us.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle

originally posted by: 321Go

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: 321Go

I thought you said the egg came first only a chicken can lay a chicken egg...

That's one of those laws again...

try again...

If you think only chickens, or even birds, lay eggs, you are wildly misguided and under-educated. I think you should try again.

As has been pointed out above, dinosaurs and reptiles before them laid eggs. In fact, eggs of one sort or another have been in existence for quite a while!

I believe you started mocking me here...

And then you lied and said I stated only chickens lay eggs...
I said only chickens lay chicken eggs not that they had the sole ability to lay eggs...
Get real...
that's slander and bad manners respect is a 2 way street Remember?

Fine, like I said, let's get back on topic.

I hope we can agree that chickens have not been in existence for all time? Assuming you do agree, there had to be something chicken-like before it. The way evolution and speciation works is by mutation over a great amount of time.

I know that we are going to disagree on certain things here, but this is my opinion, which is supported by scientific evidence, both genetic and fossil-based. Your opinion, supported by your religion, is your proof and belief – I respect that, but do not agree with it.

Like I said, new species are brought about by mutation, so before chickens existed there was another bird, like a chicken but not in the species of chicken. A mutation occurred, and that new creature was a chicken. Any new species starts with the first of its type, so a new species will start with a baby or an egg. The scientific answer to your question is the egg came first – whichever way you look at it.

No doubt you will say I am wrong in some factor of my argument, so – without any abuse of my intelligence – can I please hear your explanation?

a reply to: InTheLight

But then again my God is your God irregardless if you believe in him the same way I do or even at all for that matter...

for you see he is the Creator of the Universe , that is why he is God by definition...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: InTheLight

But then again my God is your God irregardless if you believe in him the same way I do or even at all for that matter...

for you see he is the Creator of the Universe , that is why he is God by definition...

If I told you I believe you, would you be happy, would you be satisfied, would you be content?

a reply to: 321Go

Ok I'll play let's follow the evolution allowed for by creation until we are at the great great great grand daddy all the way back to its origin...

Let's call it the original kfc chicken supreme the ultimate Big Crunch...

what Came first the ultimate Big Crunch Chicken or the ultimate Big Crunch chicken egg???

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: InTheLight

But then again my God is your God irregardless if you believe in him the same way I do or even at all for that matter...

for you see he is the Creator of the Universe , that is why he is God by definition...

If I told you I believe you, would you be happy, would you be satisfied, would you be content?

I think not, because you are here to question creation and his existence, so you do not really believe.

a reply to: InTheLight

no because I can't argue with you anymore on this...

It would prob make me quit this site because that would be a first...

And yea I would feel good I guess, but I would be happy for you guaranteed...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: InTheLight

no because I can't argue with you anymore on this...

It would prob make me quit this site because that would be a first...

I am not arguing with you, I am asking you open up, and release your epiphany to us. Why are you afraid?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

it will suffice for you to admit the universe was created,

No one knows that for sure

when you have done so then you can only admit it was done so by a supreme being

But even if we did know, without knowing how it was created it does not follow that it must have been a supreme being.....

which can only quantify them as God by definition...

And even if it was created by a being of some sort, it does not follow that the being must be any sort of god - it might be that this being does only 1 thing and that is create universes....

that is also why I have said there can be only one God...

And I have just showed you that there are alternatives that an be imagined for all your steps of deduction, and therefore your deduction is not the only one possible.

I may believe it's the God of my belief system but that is irrelevant to this discussion...

Finally, something that does actually follow!

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: InTheLight

But then again my God is your God irregardless if you believe in him the same way I do or even at all for that matter...

for you see he is the Creator of the Universe , that is why he is God by definition...

first, having a debate or an argument or a conversation with you really sucks.
just had to get that out there.

this thread has gone from talking about a supreme being to the crazy old chicken or the egg question.

your god is not my god.
your god is your god.
your god is also my imaginary bully.

actually i think biggie said it best.

invisible bully like the gooch, vamoose youre whack to me.....
he was not talking about god but it sure applies.

that is exactly what your god is.
an invisible bully.

there is like 40 pages or so of these and you are spewing your opinions with your little teenage tone as if they are cold hard facts and they are nothing of the sort.
you have proven exactly nothing.....

are you having fun?

im kind of enjoying seeing you get all bunged up.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: 321Go

Ok I'll play let's follow the evolution allowed for by creation until we are at the great great great grand daddy all the way back to its origin...

Let's call it the original kfc chicken supreme the ultimate Big Crunch...

what Came first the ultimate Big Crunch Chicken or the ultimate Big Crunch chicken egg???

I've answered your question according to scientific doctrine and evidence, to which I personally subscribe. The birth of any new species is exactly that – a birth. So, the egg came first. The first chicken egg was laid by a chicken-like bird. Over time, that new species became a chicken.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

All I can really say to the question of, "Is there a supreme creator" is this:

I don't know.

I am confident saying if there is, it wasn't any of the specific gods people have claimed to be responsible. Perhaps religions have tainted everything and what God is, has simply been misrepresented and misunderstood. With many of the characteristics and narratives attributed to him/her/it being false.

Please understand it's hard for me to consider it this religion's god, or that religion's god. There are so many things about the texts, dogmas, doctrines, "personal relationships" etc. that simply don't add up or are completely wrong, to things that are known.

There is simply no reason I can find for me to take them seriously.

I am willing to give you that perhaps people can, and have connected in some way to a divine source if there is one. However, as we can agree, men are fallible. For millennia men have claimed to connect to a divine source with all the answers. They can't all be right. How do you figure out which revelation is the real truth? Judge the others off of someone else's revelations? Not a very reliable way to do it, imo. So while at the very core of religion and spirituality, they may be right about the existence of a god, how they form and develop, and evolve over time, is far from divinely inspired.

IMHO.

Wait! This thread is directed at atheists, which I am not. If I must be pigeon-holed, then I may be agnostic, but then again probably not, more spiritual while having my own proof of there being a God like, type, influence within this strange existence which none of us understand. Imagine an agnostic budding in on this discussion without being asked.

a reply to: InTheLight

I am a huge fan of agnostics as they keep the discussion open and going, they want to discuss it because they want input they want stimulation and they are still formulating their personal ideology, some atheists feel threatened by this, I have seen it numerous times on ATS.

To the agnostic I say "this thread is for you"

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Aethist and agonostic are concepts that would disappear if there was proof as claimed by the OP and other posters.

Agnostics are Agnostic Atheists. If you lack a belief in a God, you've met the only requirement for being an atheist.

Look up the definition of atheist and you'll see agnostic is a synonym.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

what if I told you I agree man is to blame for the poor job all religions do at representing him and defining him...

then let's not forget the greed of man which has purposefully done so to keep certain truths as power over all mankind...

And let's also agree that man does a poor job even contemplating God because he does so with the mind of a man and assumes to judge his existence by our limitations...

none of it takes away from the reality God exists and that he is the creator...