Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: boymonkey74

But here is the thing, when the bible was completed culturally everybody had a religion there was no such thing as evolution, and atheists would be very rare. The religious landscape was very different you had Judaism, Christianity, and plethora of paganism, Islam never even existed. Everybody believed in a creation account of some kind.
So really it can't be said that some of the concepts you speak of were directly addressing the people of that day.

But God made sure the Bible was future proofed, he even threw in these little gems for those he knew wouldn't believe in him as the creator in the distant future. It even seems to allude to evolution itself.

Romans 1: 20-23

For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],
21 Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves].
23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles.

And then there is this one too

Romans 1:25

They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator

It could be said today that the scientific ideology of the entire evolutionary concept of orgins from cosmology to abiogenesis to evolution; from God's perspective that is exactly what evolutionary atheists have done.

And when the bible calls out a specific group I expect them to get mad.
Especially when the targeted group thinks they are being trolled by fiction.....but let me ask you this if it's all such a lie why does it upset them so much ?

I actually can answer that question, sub-conscience intuition is in play at the psychological level that people can't even fathom. People think it's outrage at ignorance but that is just the basic surface thoughts. Go deeper much deeper.

I apologize for chipping in on this reply yet I feel it is worth a try to throw in my 2 cents so to speak. The complexities are immense when it comes to this topic. We are looking at subjective individuals whom each approach the concept from different angles. Quoting scriptures can be interpreted in many ways, we tend to find the meaning that we are looking for, truly a remarkable attribute of the mind. What makes me find these discussions fascinating is the fact that we try and condense our opinions in short paragraphs when in actual fact there is so much to talk about and the outcome will always be ''lets agree to disagree'' at best of times. Lets assume that one individual is closer to the ''truth'' than another, how does one set about convincing the other party to consider their views without causing a sense of uneasiness? This is an age old debacle as this story always has the enlightened ones trying to convince the lost ones and the irony is that both parties view each other as the opposites of the latter. Language its self is meaning that we give to it and even those meanings have different meanings to different people. I believe ''God'' is not an external manifestation but everything that is. How deep you want to go with that one is your prerogative .

a reply to: FreeThinkerbychoice

If one person is KNOWN to be closer to "the truth" than another then there will be evidence of that - which can be presented.

If it is not known then you are just guessing and there is no evidence - and this is where religion sits.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

He is watching the reactions, and responds by giving people the stiff arm, so to speak or draws them closer. In other words the more a person hates the scriptures the further they push themselves away from God, and it is very likely they will stay an evolutionary atheist. Unless God's see's something in you that is so amazing that he forces a "Saul" to "Paul" level epiphany onto you by some earth shattering life event.

It astonishes me when I hear people talk about God like this. Like he is some sort of clever schoolmaster making those tests you talk about to evaluate his students, or a bureaucrat. So banal and human.

You have a gift in your faith. Faith in the sublime mystery that is a living God. This can give a man the strength for great deeds, or the courage to withstand horrible hardship, or the ecstatic visions that inspired some of Europes greatest art.

Yet you see him as this micro-managing big brother figure and choose to honor him by arguing with idiots on the internet.

How would you define holiness?


P.S: If he forced Saul and Paul to come to him then he took away that much touted free will, didn't he?

a reply to: Subnatural

are you familiar with "Needful Things" the book by stephen king? the basic principle is to cause woe by giving very calculated gifts to those who will contract the most suffering by them. the point was never to spread happiness, but to engineer chaos. it strikes me that free will might qualify. in fact (and i will admit to speculating here) it almost feels as though free will were given precisely to inspire the opposite: unmitigated servitude. "see what free will gets you? not so bad now, am i? but dont worry, im willing to forgive your independent streak if you promise to forswear it eternally and kiss my boot until i say stop".

can anyone say rigged game?

a reply to: Subnatural

P.S: If he forced Saul and Paul to come to him then he took away that much touted free will, didn't he?

You do realize they are the same person right ?
That his encounter directly with Jesus Christ changed his world view, he freely did this when the evidence was so overwhelming he could no longer deny it to himself any longer. Granted he already did believe in God and a creator
But he went from viscously persecuting those with the truth of reality, to their biggest and strongest supporter.

Just for fun I wish Jesus would do that to every atheist member on ATS one day, that would be a blast.
It will never happen, but it would be awesome if it did. I would love to see the posts here the next day.

a reply to: boymonkey74


billions of people around the world agree buddisim is not a religion, in fact Its makes as much sense to say all of mankind is a religion...

Sorry monkey boy you are wrong...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

See my sig line

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Said the fool who couldn't see the truth...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Said the fool who couldn't see the truth...

The fool who knows he's a fool is a genius. The genius who thinks he's a genius is a fool indeed.

a reply to: mOjOm

Glad I know my intelligence is relative and that you don't speak for me

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: mOjOm

Glad I know my intelligence is relative and that you don't speak for me

Obviously. Why would I speak 4 you when I'm clearly speaking 2 you???

If I was speaking for you then that would mean I'm talking to myself now wouldn't it??

a reply to: 5StarOracle

He was talking about Hindus, not Buddhists. There are 1 BN Hindus who are polytheistic. The entire world agrees that not only is Hinduism a religion, it is in fact the worlds oldest religion that is still in use today, predating the Abrahamic faiths by thousands of years. You are in fact the one who is incorrect.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: boymonkey74


billions of people around the world agree buddisim is not a religion, in fact Its makes as much sense to say all of mankind is a religion...

Sorry monkey boy you are wrong...

Basic Buddhism ---- I've researched this before.

Generally Buddhism does not believe in a personal God or a divine being, it does not have worship, praying to, or praising of a divine being (although some sects do.) It offers no form of redemption, forgiveness, no heavenly hope, or a final judgment to those practicing its system. Buddhism is a moral philosophy, an ethical way to live for the here and now of this world to gain the ultimate state. It has more in common with humanism and atheism than its original religion Hinduism it separated from. But Buddhism is not atheism just because they don’t believe in a personal God. It is more like pantheism, there is a impersonal force the void which is the ultimate.

For centuries, Buddhism has been the dominant religion of the Eastern world and still remains the predominant religion in China, Japan, Korea, as well as southeast Asia. In Japan alone there are approximately 200 sects. This makes it difficult to address this religion as a whole since it can be so diversified.

www.letusreason.org...

a reply to: mOjOm

Well I could take that either way your post could be taken as siding with or against me...

And could be taken that I'm claiming to be a super genius...

I have made no such claim...

a reply to: Annee

the diversity is what causes the divide on the belief it is a religion, I'm not alone in this...

I say again if Buddisim is a religion than all mankind is a religion...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Said the fool who couldn't see the truth...

Does this mean you think that if 50 million people believe a foolish thing it is no longer a foolish thing??

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: mOjOm

Well I could take that either way your post could be taken as siding with or against me...

And could be taken that I'm claiming to be a super genius...

I have made no such claim...

I see. I wasn't siding with you or working against you actually. I was just saying some stuff that sounded cool and mystical that I sorta stole from some other guru a little bit. No real intention behind it tho. But your reaction tells me you're feeling defensive. Are you being attacked???

To be honest I haven't been following this thread at all because I've been through similar ones more than once and kinda figured this one to go about the same way. What stage are you at anyway??? By your defensive response I'm going to guess that it's not going too well for your side perhaps???

What is the current subject at hand??? Not the overall topic, but the current question or statement being tossed around???

a reply to: mOjOm

heh if I say something on here I'm going to be attacked that's pretty much a given...

I started out offering up evidence of a creator by linking a video on the Fibonacci sequence...

Anyway those who don't believe in a God came in to harass and hating on me...

what's even funnier they don't believe in God but the believe in gods...

Anything to try and hide the truth of things I guess, anyway this thread has strayed far off topic...

a reply to: peter vlar

No, Noah has the oldest religion, nothing was written out, it was just him and God chatting, every other religion got wiped out at the flood. Then after Nimrod and his tower got ruined, religion began to spread around the world by groups bound by the same languages, this spawned many new religions bound by language and culture. Hinduism most likely came from the group that settled in the geographical region of India.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: mOjOm

heh if I say something on here I'm going to be attacked that's pretty much a given...

I started out offering up evidence of a creator by linking a video on the Fibonacci sequence...

Anyway those who don't believe in a God came in to harass and hating on me...

what's even funnier they don't believe in God but the believe in gods...

Anything to try and hide the truth of things I guess, anyway this thread has strayed far off topic...

That's interesting as I once felt I had discovered God speaking to me within Fibonacci numbers as well. Spend quite a long time finding patterns with the sequence looking for answers. Researched the Golden Mean and understood why the Greeks considered it to be a divine number and the number of beauty and perfection. It is a quite amazing transcendental number.

Why do you think that it's proof of God though??? It may very well be one of the numbers used by life itself as a means to grow and live. It is symbolic of everything being born from nothing and infinity. But while it may be philosophically and even technically interesting how does it prove God??? Which God would it prove??? Why would it prove anything about God???