Dear Atheists: I will prove to you that there is a Creator to the universe. Come debate me.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I might be a little optimistic with my prediction.

I look at the leaps and bounds made by the LHC and it gets me excited.

Trust me, I get excited about the leaps and bounds made in all sorts of different sciences, but every time we make a leap we find a thousand new questions to ask that shows us that we are THAT much more away from knowing the full picture.

I didn't mean to sound condescending when I asked for a better comparison though buddy...

I just think anything created by Humans is fallible, when what they're trying to understand is known to be infallible, if we go with the argument God does exist that is...
So right off the bat it's an unfair assessment.

Well that's what I'm trying to show. With all the work we put together, the best we can do with tons of teamwork and resources is the Earth Simulator, and that is just one planet out of the entire universe. So now enlarge this task to the divine, or rather whatever exists outside the universe that our universe was created in. It just seems like ONE creator would be too large of a task for just one entity.

I think what we can agree on is when they do have an answer, we'll likely both be deceased.
That's disheartening.

Yes, yes it is... Though I've already came to terms with this sad fact.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Back on topic, I don't think the logic of the op question is proof...

I think they've confused personal evidence due to experience with proof.

All too common an argument.

Personal evidence due to experience is usually tainted by confirmation bias when it comes to this discussion though. It's not good enough.

Self "proof" is not proof to others?

I know, crazy huh?

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.

So 1 + 1 = 34?

No offense, but "spirit world" and "psychic ability" have nothing to do with the possibility of god existing, even if both are true.

I'm not so sure. I realize that it could all be coincidence but there comes a point where it's too much. You can't win the lottery 5 times in a row. Something's going on if that happens.

However, If there is psychic ability...it appears that we are all connected somehow. If there are spirits or a spirit world, it would appear that there is life after death. I realize that none of that means there is God, but life after death and an invisible connection to each other and these spirits...to me it's a step in that direction.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.

So 1 + 1 = 34?

No offense, but "spirit world" and "psychic ability" have nothing to do with the possibility of god existing, even if both are true.

I'm not so sure. I realize that it could all be coincidence but there comes a point where it's too much. You can't win the lottery 5 times in a row. Something's going on if that happens.

Yes you can. Just because the odds are outstandingly low doesn't mean it can't happen. There are people who have won the lottery several times in their lives.

Here's someone who won it 4 times: Joan Ginther tops many multiple winners in lottery history

Here's a seven time winner:
Richard Lustig, 7-Time Lottery Winner, Gives Tips On Winning The Powerball Jackpot

Here's 12 more multi-winners (well 10 more since 2 of them are the previous two I named):
12 People That Won the Lottery…More Than Once!

Just because the odds are low for the individual doesn't mean the odds are low for it to happen throughout the population. In fact, as our population increases, the odds that SOMEONE will do it increase while the odds that it will happen to the individual stay the same.

However, If there is psychic ability...it appears that we are all connected somehow. If there are spirits or a spirit world, it would appear that there is life after death. I realize that none of that means there is God, but life after death and an invisible connection to each other and these spirits...to me it's a step in that direction.

Really? To me, it just says that we don't know everything that is going on and isn't proof of one thing or the other.

Its funny what happens when you mix religion and Red Bull.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: amazing
So I've had several experiences with a Psychic lately. Near 100% accuracy. Not coincidence. Leading me to believe that there must be some type of real psychic ability and there must be a spirit world. That tends to reinforce my belief of a creator.

So 1 + 1 = 34?

No offense, but "spirit world" and "psychic ability" have nothing to do with the possibility of god existing, even if both are true.

I'm not so sure. I realize that it could all be coincidence but there comes a point where it's too much. You can't win the lottery 5 times in a row. Something's going on if that happens.

Yes you can. Just because the odds are outstandingly low doesn't mean it can't happen. There are people who have won the lottery several times in their lives.

Here's someone who won it 4 times: Joan Ginther tops many multiple winners in lottery history

Here's a seven time winner:
Richard Lustig, 7-Time Lottery Winner, Gives Tips On Winning The Powerball Jackpot

Here's 12 more multi-winners (well 10 more since 2 of them are the previous two I named):
12 People That Won the Lottery…More Than Once!

Just because the odds are low for the individual doesn't mean the odds are low for it to happen throughout the population. In fact, as our population increases, the odds that SOMEONE will do it increase while the odds that it will happen to the individual stay the same.

However, If there is psychic ability...it appears that we are all connected somehow. If there are spirits or a spirit world, it would appear that there is life after death. I realize that none of that means there is God, but life after death and an invisible connection to each other and these spirits...to me it's a step in that direction.

Really? To me, it just says that we don't know everything that is going on and isn't proof of one thing or the other.

You could be right, and you know I'm not a big fan of organized religion but my life experiences have led me to believe that there is a God or Creator. The Lottery might have been a bad example, but you know what I was getting at. If someone wins all the time in a casino, they make sure he's not cheating and many times he is.

If a psychic tells me somethings going to happen in six weeks and it does, that makes me wonder if there isn't something to this.

originally posted by: amazing

However, If there is psychic ability...it appears that we are all connected somehow. If there are spirits or a spirit world, it would appear that there is life after death. I realize that none of that means there is God, but life after death and an invisible connection to each other and these spirits...to me it's a step in that direction.

Step in the "Right" direction? What is the Wrong direction?

I'm atheist. I lack belief in a God. That, of course, does not mean there isn't one.

I've also had paranormal (for lack of better word) experiences since first memory. Yes, I believe there is an energy connection. How does that mean it's a god?

originally posted by: amazing
You could be right, and you know I'm not a big fan of organized religion but my life experiences have led me to believe that there is a God or Creator. The Lottery might have been a bad example, but you know what I was getting at. If someone wins all the time in a casino, they make sure he's not cheating and many times he is.

If a psychic tells me somethings going to happen in six weeks and it does, that makes me wonder if there isn't something to this.

I'd say that depends on what exactly the psychic predicted. If the psychic just says something bad is going to happen in six weeks, I'd be less likely to believe he was psychic if something happened. Now if the psychic said something VERY exact like, "six weeks from now on a Monday, in the afternoon, in Reading, PA, a man name Bob Loblong will have his head caved in by a falling piano" and it happens, THEN I'd be more willing to believe. So far though, I usually encounter the former when looking at psychic predictions. Either that or a charlatan pretending that "cold reading" is real psychic ability.

a reply to: randyvs
But that is the kind of logic and reasoning that would be required and the point of the question, proving something that can not be proven, or disproving something that can not be proven. It is not that easily done.

originally posted by: Phage

I'm not a Christian but I capitalize that (and God, and Bible) out of respect for the beliefs of others.

Why do people's beliefs deserve respect?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: amazing

However, If there is psychic ability...it appears that we are all connected somehow. If there are spirits or a spirit world, it would appear that there is life after death. I realize that none of that means there is God, but life after death and an invisible connection to each other and these spirits...to me it's a step in that direction.

Step in the "Right" direction? What is the Wrong direction?

I'm atheist. I lack belief in a God. That, of course, does not mean there isn't one.

I've also had paranormal (for lack of better word) experiences since first memory. Yes, I believe there is an energy connection. How does that mean it's a god?

It doesn't necessarily, but it does make us question our lives. Are we all connected and how? Many metaphysical books, philosophers and proponents of god have said this, so if they are right about this, could they be right that there is a God? Perhaps that deserves a closer look. If there is a spirit world or spirits does that mean that there IS life after death? How long does it last and can those spirits reincarnate or inhabit another body? Where do the spirits go? Why do they linger? Now we're talking about life after death so of course that should make you question if there is God and lead you to some pretty good discussions. Just in my opinion, of course.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: amazing
You could be right, and you know I'm not a big fan of organized religion but my life experiences have led me to believe that there is a God or Creator. The Lottery might have been a bad example, but you know what I was getting at. If someone wins all the time in a casino, they make sure he's not cheating and many times he is.

If a psychic tells me somethings going to happen in six weeks and it does, that makes me wonder if there isn't something to this.

I'd say that depends on what exactly the psychic predicted. If the psychic just says something bad is going to happen in six weeks, I'd be less likely to believe he was psychic if something happened. Now if the psychic said something VERY exact like, "six weeks from now on a Monday, in the afternoon, in Reading, PA, a man name Bob Loblong will have his head caved in by a falling piano" and it happens, THEN I'd be more willing to believe. So far though, I usually encounter the former when looking at psychic predictions. Either that or a charlatan pretending that "cold reading" is real psychic ability.

So ...the prediction was....it was in six weeks your (specific) family member is going to get an unexpected Job offer for a lot more money. Right person, right thing, right time frame. No one expected it. It wasn't something that could have been researched. That's one example and there have been a few other ones recently.

originally posted by: amazing
I'm not so sure. I realize that it could all be coincidence but there comes a point where it's too much. You can't win the lottery 5 times in a row. Something's going on if that happens.

However, If there is psychic ability...it appears that we are all connected somehow. If there are spirits or a spirit world, it would appear that there is life after death. I realize that none of that means there is God, but life after death and an invisible connection to each other and these spirits...to me it's a step in that direction.

Yes, if you interpret it that way. But, look at Buddhism. It is an atheistic belief system, and involves the soul, the spirit realm, and everything you just mentioned. I don't know if psychic abilities play a role, but that could alternatively be explained by evolution of the brain as well. We all evolved from the same stuff so it wouldn't surprise me if such a connection existed, especially if the soul/spirit is a real thing. Of course we really have no idea, it could potentially be interaction on the quantum level and only small minority of folks have evolved a trait to make sense of it. People generally insert god as the explanation, simply because they have no other, which is faulty logic. If these things lead you down a path of belief in god, more power to you, but it seems like you are inserting god because you aren't sure how/why it works.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: amazing
You could be right, and you know I'm not a big fan of organized religion but my life experiences have led me to believe that there is a God or Creator. The Lottery might have been a bad example, but you know what I was getting at. If someone wins all the time in a casino, they make sure he's not cheating and many times he is.

If a psychic tells me somethings going to happen in six weeks and it does, that makes me wonder if there isn't something to this.

I'd say that depends on what exactly the psychic predicted. If the psychic just says something bad is going to happen in six weeks, I'd be less likely to believe he was psychic if something happened. Now if the psychic said something VERY exact like, "six weeks from now on a Monday, in the afternoon, in Reading, PA, a man name Bob Loblong will have his head caved in by a falling piano" and it happens, THEN I'd be more willing to believe. So far though, I usually encounter the former when looking at psychic predictions. Either that or a charlatan pretending that "cold reading" is real psychic ability.

So ...the prediction was....it was in six weeks your (specific) family member is going to get an unexpected Job offer for a lot more money. Right person, right thing, right time frame. No one expected it. It wasn't something that could have been researched. That's one example and there have been a few other ones recently.

I've had fortune cookies that say similar things and have been right. I'm not so sure that would be as thorough as what I'm talking about. I mean if the family member is on linkin, it is very easy to get job offers every so often, and its not unheard of for those offers to be for more money. What you described sounds more akin to being duped by a cold reader actually.

Not to be a Swingin Richard or anything ... But that's why it's called CO incidence

originally posted by: arimass101

Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical?


Gods existence is absolutely without beginning or end. That is, He did not pass from nonexistence into existence, and will absolutely never pass into nonexistence. He therefore always was, and always will be, and it is impossible for him to cease to exist.

Shall we begin?

How do expect people to believe what your saying when you first come out, saying that it is illogical for something to have always existed..... but God has always existed and always will.
Isn't it then, more logical, that something created God?
Maybe, God IS the universe and it has always existed..
Problem solved.
That makes just as much sense to me as your whole post

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: amazing
You could be right, and you know I'm not a big fan of organized religion but my life experiences have led me to believe that there is a God or Creator. The Lottery might have been a bad example, but you know what I was getting at. If someone wins all the time in a casino, they make sure he's not cheating and many times he is.

If a psychic tells me somethings going to happen in six weeks and it does, that makes me wonder if there isn't something to this.

I'd say that depends on what exactly the psychic predicted. If the psychic just says something bad is going to happen in six weeks, I'd be less likely to believe he was psychic if something happened. Now if the psychic said something VERY exact like, "six weeks from now on a Monday, in the afternoon, in Reading, PA, a man name Bob Loblong will have his head caved in by a falling piano" and it happens, THEN I'd be more willing to believe. So far though, I usually encounter the former when looking at psychic predictions. Either that or a charlatan pretending that "cold reading" is real psychic ability.

So ...the prediction was....it was in six weeks your (specific) family member is going to get an unexpected Job offer for a lot more money. Right person, right thing, right time frame. No one expected it. It wasn't something that could have been researched. That's one example and there have been a few other ones recently.

I've had fortune cookies that say similar things and have been right. I'm not so sure that would be as thorough as what I'm talking about. I mean if the family member is on linkin, it is very easy to get job offers every so often, and its not unheard of for those offers to be for more money. What you described sounds more akin to being duped by a cold reader actually.

There have been multiple other things. The exact time frame was the kicker on that. I'm open minded enough to consider the possibility of chance, good guesses and coincidence but...I must also be open to the other possibility that there might be something there.

"Either the universe had a creator or the universe had always existed. Which is more logical? "
Which of the above is more logical, logic of something you see, fee,l hear, touch. i.e. the universe against something you believe, have faith, have hope .i.e. GOD.....mmmmm?

I usually give persons like the OP, "food for thought" as it relates to your own existence. Where you created by a Creator or were you the result of a system of evolution? in other words, where you created to be the be the person you are currently, age, weight, personality, characteristics, etc. or did you started out as tiny micro organism (a cell) and through a process of evolving, formed to be an embryo, fetus, baby, child, teen, man/woman. If you can truthfully ponder that question then the process is the same for everything you see around you.

a reply to: amazing

I'm open to possibilities as well, but when looking at various possibilities you have to be careful to decouple your confirmation bias.