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Seattle CEO Who set Company Minimum Salary at $70k/yr Struggling

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posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




But you shouldn't have to moonlight. You should, by virtue of being a card carrying member of the collective of "Society", be entitled to "a living wage". Which means full cable and internet, a new car, cell phone with plenty of data, and yearly vacations in the bahamas.


In an ideal society and perfect world this would be the case but unfortunately the reality of society is and always has been UNFAIR.
If we had an EQUAL and FAIR society though I don't think everyone would be able to go for holidays in the Bahamas or live in mansions because the world in some ways has LIMITED resources which SOME feel that they are more entitled to than others because they may be a bit more SELF-SERVING.
The goal in our world should be to make the world a FAIRER world or it is likely that our society will FAIL which usually leads to INEQUALITY,CIVIL UNREST,TYRANNY,WAR etc.etc.




posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Mugly

Oh, i could hold everyone accountable to what i expect, and fire those who refuse to perform. But in a town of 25k people...its no time at all before i am going back to an old pile of vomit for dinner.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Yes, I pay this thing called "taxes" where I live. Not sure how this is covered in your neck of the woods. Not that these "taxes" are exactly a fair thing, either, especially when you consider a family of 4 making under $50,000 a year actually pays a negative net income tax in the US... I'm sort of left wondering exactly why only those of us over that threshold should be paying the costs and, more importantly, why we should be eager to increase those costs on ourselves?


Taxes alone don't solve the issue. We can both probably agree that in an ideal world tax money is not subsidizing employee wages. If you don't pay your employees enough though, that is precisely what happens. Then we have a situation where individuals are taxed higher so that employees can now be dependent on their employer and the government to keep a roof over their head. With less income inequality an employee can be dependent on neither, while the person at the top sees less of their check paid to taxes (though they just won't be paid that money instead).



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: defcon25

In an ideal society, your neighbors aren't looking over your fence wanting to complain about what you have.

There will never be an ideal. Because competition is what the human ego is supported with.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6...but should any and every "job" singlehandedly raise an individual out of poverty


Firstly, there are fundamental human rights. And these rights make it clear that poverty should never result from not having a job. So, the question is nonsensical, I'm sorry. Even without a job, nobody should be poor.

And it is quite well defined what poverity is. From the declaration of human rights: [1] All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. [23-3] Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. [24] Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay. [25-1] Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

The 'circumstances beyond his control' do not include not be willing to give up essential rights like those presented in [24].

So, according to this declaration - one that has been signed by but is not being upheld by the US of A - poverty should not even exist.


or is it 100% valid to accept that some jobs are tailored to the kids looking for summer work or even people who have identified the need to work more than 1 job? Moonlighting has been a thing as long as I've been alive. Once upon a time, it was viewed admirably as an indication of a person with a lot of self responsibility and a desire to better their own situation... now it's never discussed at all, as if it is considered completely alien in concept.


You said it: a person that wants to better his own situation. Well, a bank-robber also does work and his goal is also to better his own situation. You may say "well, but that's against the law" - and I will point to the universal declaration of human rights that the US of A voted for on 10 December 1948.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: burdman30ott6...but should any and every "job" singlehandedly raise an individual out of poverty


Firstly, there are fundamental human rights. And these rights make it clear that poverty should never result from not having a job. So, the question is nonsensical, I'm sorry. Even without a job, nobody should be poor.



oO

Nonsensical is believing that without a job you won't be poor.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




You can't hold the entire planet hostage like that. I was not born to be enslaved in a collective.


You may believe you are born free and not a slave to the collective but if you are participating in society which you indeed are then you are a slave to the collective because you are bound by the laws of the society in which you live.
If you decide to break the laws of society and get caught you will either be fined or go to jail.
If you work you pay taxes to contribute to society via the government who are elected by the collective society in order to decide where the money gets spent then you are participating in the collective society.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Nonsensical is believing that without a job you won't be poor.


I guess that depends on how you define poor. You can live just fine in some European countries without a job, Norway for example.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Nonsensical is believing that without a job you won't be poor.


lol I don't work or have to work and I am not poor,I consider myself to be very well off even though I have worked in the past.
Lots of people never have to work a day in their life through circumstances such as inheritance etc.
What you just said is a complete fallacy.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: defcon25

In an ideal society, your neighbors aren't looking over your fence wanting to complain about what you have.

There will never be an ideal. Because competition is what the human ego is supported with.


Right. Until the day comes we have free energy and Star Trek replicators in everyone's homes -- we won't have that. Greed will continue to motivate us. Resource scarcity will drive economies.

But just imagine for a minute if we did have replicators and unlimited free energy...dang...



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




In an ideal society, your neighbors aren't looking over your fence wanting to complain about what you have.


Not everybodies neighbours are like that.




There will never be an ideal. Because competition is what the human ego is supported with.


I agree for most people this is the case but not all.
Yes most people have a big ego and are very competitive and if we can't tame it then it will lead to our own destruction so I think the goal for humanity is pretty obvious.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Greven

I didn't "miss it" the first time, I simply didn't find your post worthy of comment from me. The article's facts are the same whether it is from the Washington Times, Fox News, Infogeek, or the New York Times.

I can also scrounge up dozens of examples of people claiming true Christianity is socialist and Jesus was a socialist, if you're claiming the two are automatically different. I'd rather not do this, because I'm not really that into arguing religion right now.

I see in your post prior to mine on the last page that the quote comes from the video. I don't generally use Flash due to its security problems. I installed Flash again to see if it was there, and it was, so I must admit that I was mistaken about the fabrication. That you didn't deign to comment about that is odd. You could have issued a simple rebuttal to that and I would have been corrected faster. Incidentally, did you listen to this bit from that video you helpfully pointed out?

"Effective immediately, we're going to put a scaled policy into place and have a minimum $70,000 pay rate." - Dan Price

Sounds like the plan is slightly different than what was being portrayed.

You don't want to talk about religion, but you want to talk about stuff like this:

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
You say when everybody gets rewarded the same regardless of how much or how little effort they put in at work, nobody will put in the extra effort?

Which is interestingly reflective of something in the original NYT article itself:

A few were worried that fees would rise or service would fall off. “What’s their incentive to hustle if you pay them so much?” Ms. Brajcich said they asked.

In your very next sentences, you write this:

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Oh, silly you! Yes, we all know socialism is a complete failure because it has demonstrably failed everywhere it has been affected... but yeah, America is different.

The very opening post in this thread talks about socialism. You don't want to talk religion because it destroys the socialism talking point.

Pathetic. You point to socialism instead of the background of this business owner who (with his brother) built a multimillion dollar business from nothing; the religious background that shaped his views and his actions. That was why he did this, not because of ~socialism~.

Then there's this hilarity:

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
What people I work with make a year doesn't matter to me, except to say I know how much stress I take on for my job vs the folks making a lot less than me whose work day lasts exactly 8 hours, carry zero stress or management responsibility, and aren't found working at their house most nights after their family retires to bed...


Businesses don't pay people by how hard they work or how much stress they deal with or how much time they work. They pay people as little as they can, but as much as said people will agree to. Do you feel you are being paid what your labor is 'worth' in this world?

You aren't, if the company is turning a profit.

What if your coworkers simply work more efficiently? We think we are the hardest worker there, but maybe other folks don't have to work so hard to do the same work.

Perception is a crazy thing. We value pieces of paper because of their perceived worth.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

By that definition, there is no poverty in America.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: Vector99




The actual article shows he is actually seeing an increase in customers from the move, but it will take a year to see profits. That's pretty good actually for anyone that actually knows business.Text


I'm pretty sure he will find funding from somewhere if he is guaranteed future profits.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: Greven
Businesses don't pay people by how hard they work or how much stress they deal with or how much time they work. They pay people as little as they can, but as much as said people will agree to. Do you feel you are being paid what your labor is 'worth' in this world?

You aren't, if the company is turning a profit.

What if your coworkers simply work more efficiently? We think we are the hardest worker there, but maybe other folks don't have to work so hard to do the same work.


You clearly have no clue what I do for a living. I'm a project manager. I bring the work in the door, I negotiate the contract, I sign an agreement for a certain profit margin with my company, and then I deliver the goods. My paycheck is directly dependent on how my last year went. Hardest worker? Dunno about that, but I've sure seen these office walls under every imaginable lighting and weather condition and Lord knows I've spent enough evenings running home for dinner and to kiss my kids and my wife goodnight before turning around and coming back in. And before you ask, no, I'm not hourly.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6
I'm not sure why you think that refutes my argument.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Aazadan

She was upset that others were being unwarrantedly treated BETTER than her and her peers that had more training, experience and responsibility.

If you don't understand the difference, then you are hopeless.

Jaden


Upset that others were treated better? The woman in this article was quite possibly the highest paid person at the company (besides the CEO's brother) after the pay restructuring. It sounds to me like she was being treated pretty well.


originally posted by: ketsuko
No, it's about earning your place and your privilege.


Why does paying your dues matter at all? It's a social construct that does nothing other than give people a sense of superiority by holding others down.


Yep, one of the highest paid, one of the highest skilled, spent some of the most time acquiring the skills and experience to get in that position, probably some of the higher personal cost (schooling, training etc.)

This type of action is similar to when the military stopped allowing corporal punishment from fellow soldiers but continued to dole out unit wide punishments for individual # ups.

When action isn't taken, then all that does is encourage further bad behavior, or at the least, doesn't discourage it.

Rewarding people with higher pay when they haven't acquired the skills, or experience to deserve it, just encourages everyone to slack off.

That's why socialism is the stupidest, most unrealistic concept ever imagined. People have to have risk/reward and receive according to value, or there ceases to be individual value and we stagnate innovation.

Jaden



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

that declaration sounds fine and dandy...but basically worthless

en.wikipedia.org...


Even though it is not legally binding


an example of a few countries that voted in its favor

afghanistan, cuba, india, iran, pakistan, iraq, columbia

so whats your point?



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
Rewarding people with higher pay when they haven't acquired the skills, or experience to deserve it, just encourages everyone to slack off.

That's why socialism is the stupidest, most unrealistic concept ever imagined. People have to have risk/reward and receive according to value, or there ceases to be individual value and we stagnate innovation.

I'm sure you'll be able to cite studies that say just that. Right?

Also, this guy didn't raise wages due to socialism. You can't make a shoe fit a different sized foot.



posted on Aug, 3 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Nonsensical is believing that without a job you won't be poor.


I guess that depends on how you define poor. You can live just fine in some European countries without a job, Norway for example.


Yet this thread is about Seattle.




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