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Faith: The Ultimate Brainwashing Tool of Ignorance?

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posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:33 AM
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This Christmas season, I had the privledge of flying my Mother and Father out to my house. For the most part, it was a very good visit. One night we began to speak of religion. If anyone has read any of my posts, you will know that I was raised a Mormon and stopped going when I turned 18. My parents are very active in their church and firm in their faith. After 3 years of not seeing me in person, I was ready for the reconversion speech.

They began by telling me how important it was for me to become active in the church again so that our families could be together forever when we die for time and all eternity. I calmly explained to them that due to some discoveries I have made, I can no longer accept that their church is true.

They explained that I had to strengthen my faith or I would be decieved. And no matter what I said or showed them, they would not falter from their beliefs.

All this brings me to the subject at hand. Does anyone else feel that faith can be a bad thing? When something is so visibly clear and one refuses to acknowledge it because it does not fit into their belief system, I feel that something is seriously wrong. And I'm not just talking of my parents here.

You have the muslim who grew up in a enviornment that taught them one specific way of life, the mormon who was raised to believe a certain way, the athiest who was led to believe in nothing, etc, etc, etc.

Aren't we all brainwashed from birth into a specific way of thinking? Are we all products of our specific societies? It's hard to get people to think outside the box when they don't realize that there is a box surrounding them.

Sometimes, I grow weary when I try to explain to people that their way may not be the only way, but one of many ways. I try to deny ignorance and be open minded about all that I see, hear or speak. Maybe I should stop worrying about other people and just worry about myself.

I can't reason with pure faith that has been indoctrined into someone since birth.




posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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Sorry, faith isn't brainwashing. True faith is an understanding that God lives.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by thirddensity


They began by telling me how important it was for me to become active in the church again so that our families could be together forever when we die for time and all eternity.


I don't think the "soul" or energy that is us...works that way. It's my belief that when we are in the energy/soul state....we are not tied to each other in a related way such as relatives and such...we have that when we are in a current incarnation. When we are in the energy/soul state...we are part of much larger force not tied to any "earthly" rule and laws....we are all a part of each other.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 08:56 AM
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is not a bad thing. Pushing your faith and beliefs on others is. What people fail to understand is that every person has their own path of discovery. Just because you believe a certain way, does not mean that I have to.

If I am asked about my beliefs or faith, I will offer information. But I do not argue that my beliefs are better then anyone Else's. Or try to convert someone to my ways. Which is what some religions or religious people do.

It should be an exchange of information at best. Not an all out debate about who's beliefs are right or who's beliefs are better.

In the end, no one really knows if there choice of religion is the right one. Not until you die.

B56



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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The value of faith, just like everything else, depends on its method of usage. It can be a positive or negative thing in one's life depending on where one stands.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:19 AM
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You beileve in what you believe in cause you were told or taught to believe in it. Thats the truth and there is no changing it. You wouldn't believe otherwise. From birth you were raised into some belief and it's up to you to decipher the real truth and think outside the box. If you've never been taught or read or heard about a god in any way or form would you still believe? No. How could you, you wouldn't have any idea.


Some will say yes but the fact is that they couldn't but can't go agaisnt their beliefs.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Sorry, faith isn't brainwashing. True faith is an understanding that God lives.


faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

I am referring to the first and second definition more than the faith of believing in a God. Although the religious aspect is a huge part, people have faith that their car will start in the morning, the government will take care of them, and their belief system about thier life as a whole is correct.

Since one's belief system, or faith, is acquired by how they were raised and the experiences that they face throughout their life, isn't it possible to be ignorant of other things due to the lack of knowledge caused by no desire to search for other experiences?

And wouldn't this mean you have been brainwashed through circumstance and by no fault of your own?



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by I See You
You beileve in what you believe in cause you were told or taught to believe in it. Thats the truth and there is no changing it. You wouldn't believe otherwise. From birth you were raised into some belief and it's up to you to decipher the real truth and think outside the box. If you've never been taught or read or heard about a god in any way or form would you still believe? No. How could you, you wouldn't have any idea.


Some will say yes but the fact is that they couldn't but can't go agaisnt their beliefs.


My thoughts exactly, I See You. Although I am still trying to figure out if there was a specific event in my lfe that made me realize there was more to everything than what I had been taught.

I consider myself blessed for having the ability to look at things from all points of view with an open mind. Then it allows me to make more of an educated desicion on how I integrate something into my belief system.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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Do you believe ALL education this brainwashing?



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Jonna
The value of faith, just like everything else, depends on its method of usage. It can be a positive or negative thing in one's life depending on where one stands.


Agreed.
Faith can be like love, love can burn sometimes.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Do you believe ALL education this brainwashing?


Yes. Anytime you are educated in something, it is teaching you to believe. That's not to say what one has been taught isn't true though. All brainwashing is is the process of persuading someone comepletley into believing a particular way. Take for instance most children and Santa Clause. Most of us brainwash our children into believing in him, only to uncover the truth years later. This is usually done by friends. I personally have never heard of a child questioning thier faith about Santa Clause unless they have been alerted to the possibility that he does not exist first. Now the child does not instantly stop believing in Santa Clause, but will more than likely come to you and ask if what he heard was true. A child still has enough reason to question if something they have been taught is true. Even though they have faith in their parents, they still have the ability to deny ignorance by asking questions.

If children can question their faith through questions, why can't many adults?



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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as posted by thirddensity
If children can question their faith through questions, why can't many adults?


Becasue there is a/the difference between 'faith' and 'doubt'.




seekerof



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by thirddensity

Take for instance most children and Santa Clause. Most of us brainwash our children into believing in him, only to uncover the truth years later. This is usually done by friends. I personally have never heard of a child questioning thier faith about Santa Clause unless they have been alerted to the possibility that he does not exist first. Now the child does not instantly stop believing in Santa Clause, but will more than likely come to you and ask if what he heard was true. A child still has enough reason to question if something they have been taught is true. Even though they have faith in their parents, they still have the ability to deny ignorance by asking questions.

If children can question their faith through questions, why can't many adults?


Why did that child question Santa? Not because they this power to think outside the box that goes away as we get older; Can't teach an old dog new tricks, so to speak. They go talk to someone they trust and are comfortable with about a new doubt. Adults do the same thing. Your parents already had your opinion, why would they ask you questions about things that possibly brought some doubt into their faith? They could very well have gone to a member of the church that they feel comfortable with and asked those questions.

I have come across many things that have caused me to frown a bit and have to think about what I am reading or hearing, i.e. have shaken my faith. One of the men in my church has fielded many of those questions from me on many occasions. I can say with certainty that the people who brought up the ideas that gave me questions had no clue I had any doubts of faith. I already knew what their position was, so it would be redundant to ask my questions to them.

There is also the fact that faith is such a personal thing that when someone causes us to question that faith, we will automatically get defensive. We all have faith in something, whether or not we are comfortable expressing it. Try to shake that faith and we will withdraw and go to a place of comfort or seek out someone we are comfortable with. Ask any minister or pastor and he will tell you of a great many hours spent with many people about questions of faith.

I believe that the vast majority of adults will seek answers when their faith is questioned. I also believe that there are people out there that are closed minded and will never want to hear anything that has the possibility to shake their faith. They are just the exception, not the rule.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 11:30 AM
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Thirddensity, i can understand fully where you are coming from.

My mother bought me up as a catholic, herself being extremely devout. However, when alternative viewpoints are bought to her attention that shake the very foundations of her belief, she simply goes into denial.

It is indeed like banging your head against the wall.

I can never follow religion or have faith in that particular religion, it "feels" wrong, blind faith. However im at an age where i am uncertain of what to believe, or if there is anything to believe in at all.

Well i think ive side tracked enough lol.

Arrowhead

[edit on 29-12-2004 by Arrowhead]



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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Faith itself isn't really that bad. Alot of people need something to hold onto. We are plagued with the intelligence to foresee our own deaths. And even though we have the intuition and the creativity to "see" future events that may be possible ("one day I'm going to win the lottery" "One day, I'm going to get that promotion" etc) Anything after death is unseeable. So to many people, faith is just something to hold onto, I don't think its really bad, because in the end, it's their choice to hold onto it.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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Definition of Faith: Unconditional belief and worship of something that you cannot see, hear, touch, smell.

How is this a good thing? It shows peoples inability to handle the possible truths. When we die, there are no pearly gates, no reincarnation.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 12:48 PM
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What is wrong with believing in something that you can't see or tough? If you need it to get through a rough spot, or this helps you cope with your life, then whats the problem?

Just wondered.

B56



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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First, bravo to you 3rdDensity for making the effort you have. Faith is simple intellectual laziness. It takes curiosity, mental and physical effort, communication and continuous study to validate concepts. Many humans are just too lazy (they hate that burning feeling in the brain) to study, hypothesize, and (you can't be serious, Nikola!) to experiment to prove the reality of their beliefs. Really, I think we are fortunate that the ancient Romans did not discover and validate all of reality, for human nature being what it is, it would have been codified and catechised and we would all be indoctrinated into a 'faith' that could not be scientifically challenged (unlike the current crop)- and so we would fail to discover that one last vital undiscovered truth. Question reality.

For those wanting to find the truth, click here.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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Chakotay,
Your opinion is a valid and valiant one, but be assured of a couple things:
a) Faith is not simple mental or intellectual laziness.
b) That "faith" goes beyond "scientific method and scientific proofs." The Christian "faith" is not subject to scientific proofs or methods, either. "Faith" cannot be proven through rigorous mathematical proof, whether it be undeniable and unassailable, in nature. "Faith" goes beyond simple 'what one can see, taste, touch, etc. Thats like equating the mystical with something practical....ain't going to happen. Can scientific method prove the existence of 'love' and 'hope'? Science has yet to dispprove (or prove) the existence of a Supreme entity (God, etc.). "Faith" is an independent action and does not necessairly work in tandem to practical or material reasoning: the adage of "seeing is believing". "Faith" requires no proofs, no evidences, no scientific methods, no seeing, no touching, etc.

Do not confuse or misinterpret "faith" with scientific methods and its proofs and evidences, there IS a distinct difference between the two. Despite their inherent and distinct differences, they will and do co-exist, adequately.




seekerof

[edit on 29-12-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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I suppose if I have but one thing to fear upon my deathbed it would be that eternal damnation is real, and I was about to experience it. I see myself passing to the other side and as Im kicking and screaming and fighting to get away Im slowly but surely dragged towards these two huge pearly gates, as they swing open there stands Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and all the other self righteous maniacs Ive come to detest in this lifetime. In a horror worse then all horrors ever known Im thrown thru the gates and they close behind me for all time. For me, there could be no crueler fate.

Why do I detest them? Why do I consider them to be the very personification of all that is wrong with the world today? Why can I not be content walking my own path and allow them the right to walk their own? Please, sit back my friend, relax, and let me explain why I am a spiritual anarchist.

Mainstream religions, it doesnt matter which one you pick, Have but one goal, to enslave the spirit of all they can convert. They will use threats of eternal damnation, guilt over your simple foils as a human being or the threat of the sword if need be to convert as many as possible to the wretched toil of the spiritual cotton fields. Those they cannot enslave they vilify or destroy.

Like the proverbial monster under the bed the religious fiends are there at the birth of every new child, so that the brainwashing can begin at the earliest possible moment. With pictures and home movies they record the baptism, dedication, the time in their nurseries and the first visit to Sunday school where the real indoctrination begins. Different religions have different rituals but all serve the same purpose, to enslave the soul and ensure the new crop of pew warmers are secure within the legions of the spiritually decapitated.

But slavery is not the true nature of man, and they know this. By the time the child is old enough to begin to explore spirituality, to have a truly spiritual experience, they have nothing to fall back upon accept the mindless garbage that has been drilled into them. The first spiritual experience they have reinforces the brainwashing that they have been subject too. The trap had been set from birth and as it was sprung on the unsuspecting and vulnerable child it delivered unto the masters of spiritual despotism another lifelong victim to be exploited.

I suppose there are those that would say any spiritual path is better than none at all. To them I would reply that a life spent in chains is not preferable to a life lived freely, especially when its the very slaves that hold the key to their freedom.

Freedom has never been the easy path. You must accept what challenges come your way, responsibility for both your victories and your failures, and understand that you are in the drivers seat of your own life.

Religions dont allow that. They give you a convenient scapegoat any time something goes wrong. The devil did it, or the evil fairies did it or spirits from the dark side made you do it. Thats crap! The devil didnt kill 230 million people in WWII, The devil never rode in the crusades and wasnt onboard the airplanes that crashed in the world trade centers. Man did that and until we stop blaming dark forces and start accepting responsibility for our own actions then the killing will not stop.

Religions take away the very thing they promise, a true relationship with the divine. Forcing people to follow the dogma, not allowing any dissent, saying that 10% of your paycheck and an hour or so on Sunday morning is all you need to be saved from whatever terror theyve somehow convinced you exists is ludicrous. The creator of all things is NOT a Sunday morning happy meal.

I am a Spiritual Anarchist.

There was a time when human beings were enslaved and a few brave souls stood up and cried out at the brutality and injustice of such a monstrosity being allowed to exist. Many died defending the idea of freedom for all against those that wished to keep people enslaved. In time those few became many and even though it took a war it still led to freedom for all.

Ive no doubt there are those that would kill me for the heresy I proclaim. I will not be silenced. The religions and their leaders whose only goal is to keep humans in spiritual servitude and enslave the mind and soul of mankind must be overcome. It is wrong, it is unjust, and I shall cry out for all to hear that it must be over thrown.

The only hold that any religion has on man is in convincing him that upon his death he will face the loss of free will. Thats crap. I had free will before I came here, I have free will now and i shall have free will when I leave for the next world. I plan on coming right back too. I like it here.

Well, thats my take on the subject.

Love and light to each of you,

Wupy



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