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theory on the origins of Islam

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posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Now now . That verse is speaking about Babel .A time before God chose Abraham and many years before Jacob and Israel .So the KJV saying that God divided up the Nations at Babel according to the sons of Jacob is incorrect .That is the truth . The Dead sea scrolls as well as The Septuagint confirm what we should understand about the verse .




posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: gosseyn

Greetings- Would You be offended if I waited until the follower of Islam gets to write the history of Chris†ianity? To be fair and all..

To stay in touch with the quid pro quo rules of an interchange: Do You think because Jesus is mentioned 5x more than Mohammed wouldn't the "extremists" in both religions welcome Jesus' return?

namaste

Edit: I forgot 'welcome'.. Wouldn't both welcome Jesus' return? Wouldn't this then bring both together?


I don't know why someone would be offended, but I am wondering, in your opinion can teachers in Europe cover the History of the U.S. without an American Teacher?
Can American Teachers cover the History of the Roman Empire without being Italian?



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: Kapusta
Even if I found you an original Bible neither of us would be able yo read it without translation. That in itself causes many problems.



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid
Archaeological discoveries in the southern Arabian peninsula has already proven Allah was one of the titles of the moon god Sin. Allah has appeared several times in inscriptions found at ancient pagan worship sites of the moon god. That’s the true hidden history of who the false prophet Mohammed really worshiped.

The myth of “three Abrahamic faiths”

Actually, they haven't, despite what "Harry A. Gaylord" at the sunandshield.wordpress website comment section may say. Or what hilarious and ridiculous Jack Chick tracts may say (people still peddle those seriously?!).



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: neformore

Religion has Satan's fingerprints all over it...

Also, In order for religion to be effective, it MUST contain some elements of truth, just like any other disinformation operation.

One has to remember that good disinfo agents ALWAYS mix good info in with the bad.

The most effective deception is truth combined with a lie.

Disinformation and rat poison are a lot alike that way.

To be effective, they both must look, taste, and smell like the real thing and contain some elements of truth.


Remember, the most effective lie is the half-truth, because in part it can be defended with incontestable logic. It was prolific occult author and demonic 33rd degree Freemason Manly P. Hall who said that. He is absolutely correct! Satan knows that the most effective deception is one in which there is truth combined with a lie, so that the truth masquerades the lie.

Satan's Greatest Weapon



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Now now . That verse is speaking about Babel .A time before God chose Abraham and many years before Jacob and Israel .So the KJV saying that God divided up the Nations at Babel according to the sons of Jacob is incorrect .That is the truth . The Dead sea scrolls as well as The Septuagint confirm what we should understand about the verse .


I don't call it the KJV that is a name given later it was officially known as the Authorized Version.

For future reference please quote the verses.

So here is your verse in question:

8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

First let's give it context. It is the song he was instructed to write and speak to Israel in Chapter 31. It comes from God's mouth to Moses.

Here is the supernatural cross-reference found in the AV using the word Divided.

Genesis 10: 21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
23 And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
26 And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,
27 And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
28 And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba,
29 And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Genesis 10 says the earth was divided in the days of Peleg a son/grandson/greatgrandson of Shem. So it seems like the AV is correct in the reading of Duet 32:8, 9. You see God knows the beginning from the end and he very well could have in his mind divided it according to Jacobs sons even before they were born, because they ALL come from Shem.

Is it so hard to believe that God who knows all could have in the past divided a land to Israel before Abraham was called out?


edit on 1-8-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: Kapusta
Even if I found you an original Bible neither of us would be able yo read it without translation. That in itself causes many problems.


The AV is our translation of the original text and re-inspired in part so that ALL God's words were preserved unto this generation.


edit on 1-8-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Perhaps this is what happened "in the days of Peleg." www.icr.org... You could be right as to what the dividing was but it could mean something else .Babel was the creation of the Nations and it was on language and so the differing groups would have wondered just what to do . My thought in the Det 32:8 passage is that it refers to the Son's (Elohim god's) that God put in charge of the differing groups after Babel.

Psm. 82:1 . God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

Gen 11:7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

God used language to divide but also used Tongues in Act's to turn back to the Nations at Pentecost .Pauls ministry was to the Gentile Nations mentioned in Gen: 10



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Bable was the dividing of the languages then later the land was divided. I know some want it to be the tectonic plates but it isn't.

the gods in the second verse you quoted, is what Jesus referred too when he said that they are gods, speaking of Israel, when the questioned him about making himself out to be God when they were about to stone him.

the godhead (a bible word for what people call the trinity) is the "our image" of Genesis 1 on day six of his six days of work.




edit on 1-8-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn

The Quran is a song given by the angel Gabriel through Mohammed which confirms the previous scriptures have been preserved perfectly because they are the word of God. The Quran claims that men have both intentionally and unintentionally twisted the meaning of those scriptures.

The Quran also says that it's true meaning will be lost towards the end of this age, largely due to the Hadith in my opinion.

The Quran predicts the coming of a prophet at the end of our current age. The prophet will be able to explain how all three Abrahamic texts actually compliment each other with the same base message.


edit on 1-8-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, And respect the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.

This is a divine council meeting . Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: Kapusta
Even if I found you an original Bible neither of us would be able yo read it without translation. That in itself causes many problems.


I fully agree .



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid


The concept of "Satan" stems from "religion" And when followed correctly Religion gives us the tools to reject "Satan" ,but according to you religion is a tool to invite it ?


That does not make to much sens to me .....





edit on 06/17/2015 by Kapusta because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Kapusta
Islam started with Muhammad...


The true origins of all false religions are always shrouded in lies.

Islam is no exception.

The bottom line: Satan is behind ALL false religion.



Christianity

The belief that a 2,000 year old magical Jewish zombie will save you from a curse placed on all of humanity by his father (who is also himself) because a talking snake told a woman made out of a rib bone to eat a piece of fruit.

Yep, that sounds like the real one...



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: gosseyn

I always thaught that the bloodline of Christ was through Sarah and Islam stems from Hagar and her son Ishmail becouse God said he would have his own nation so to me that kind of makes sense.



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: Saylesie17

I am a Christian but don't know why God would say that unless Ishmails line is a false one that becomes Islam. We need the saving grace of Jesus Christ in my eyes but that is another topic altogether.



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: neformore

What are the Demons I have seen and come up against on many occasions something is going off I assure you aliens, ufo's all fit in.



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Saylesie17

God never said Ishmails line would be true or false he speficly talked about jesus christ so that must be the truth. Ishmail is never talked about again



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

You need to be very careful on how you interpret Poetry.

You must remember that Psalm 82 is a poetic prayer song.

The congregation of God is Israel in the Tabernacle.

The wicked were those oppressing Israel and or those who dealt wickedly of the Jews.

The gods according to Jesus were the forefathers and leaders of Israel, and quite possible even of some Gentiles. As Jesus Quotes the verse from Psalm 82 therefore it is what he says it is.

Let's put Eph 6:12 in context

Eph 6:10 finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against * flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand .
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always * * with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto * * with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

In context is about putting on spiritual Armour and prayer. the enemy we have is the Devil, Satan, that old Dragon, and his minions that are on the earth and outer space but within the firmament. And they fight against the church (individuals who are saved, not a building or organization) and the saved must know how to stand against him and not fight with fleshly means.

A better verse for describing a divine meeting of God and his Angels would be

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said , From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered * my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said , Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse * thee to thy face. 12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.



edit on 1-8-2015 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2015 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

(ASV) For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

(BBE) For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens.

(CEV) We are not fighting against humans. We are fighting against forces and authorities and against rulers of darkness and powers in the spiritual world.

(Darby) because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies.

(ERV) Our fight is not against people on earth. We are fighting against the rulers and authorities and the powers of this world's darkness. We are fighting against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly places.

(ESV) For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

(GNB) For we are not fighting against human beings but against the wicked spiritual forces in the heavenly world, the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark age.

(GW) This is not a wrestling match against a human opponent. We are wrestling with rulers, authorities, the powers who govern this world of darkness, and spiritual forces that control evil in the heavenly world.

(ISV) For our struggle is not against human opponents, but against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers in the darkness around us, and evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm.

(KJV) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

(KJV+) ForG3754 weG2254 wrestleG2076 G3823 notG3756 againstG4314 fleshG4561 andG2532 blood,G129 butG235 againstG4314 principalities,G746 againstG4314 powers,G1849 againstG4314 theG3588 rulersG2888 of theG3588 darknessG4655 of thisG5127 world,G165 againstG4314 spiritualG4152 wickednessG4189 inG1722 highG2032 places.

(KJV-1611) For wee wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darknes of this world, against spirituall wickednes in high places.

(LITV) because wrestling against flesh and blood is not to us, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenlies.

(MKJV) For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

(RV) For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world–rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

(Webster) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

(YLT) because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;

Yes that place in Job is a very good place to have a look into what goes on in the divine council meeting . There are other verses that make better sense if taken in that context . Heavenly Places ... Psa 82:7 Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes. ...so who do you suppose is going to die like men ? Is He saying that men are going to die like men ? Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. does sons of God refer to Jacob and Israel in this verse and if not could the Septuagint and the dead sea scrolls have it right in the Det 32:8 verse ? Dont forget the Masoritic text was made around 200 ad ....just sayin :>)
edit on 1-8-2015 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)


This might be a good read for you to think about ..freedomfromdelusion.blogspot.ca...
edit on 1-8-2015 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)




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