It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

How can young earth creationism stand up to ice core data?

page: 7
11
<< 4  5  6    8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 10:08 AM
link   
a reply to: Barcs

The sad thing is it's probably a function of education, or lack thereof. Problem solving and critical thinking, which is why students should learn some mathematics and hard science, is poorly taught or just skipped over completely. Too many schools give the choice to the student which is a huge mistake. Off topic, but that's the root cause why people fall for Creationism and other illogical nonsense.




posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 10:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: Mugly

originally posted by: TheChrome

The bible speaks of creative days, when God created certain things. These "days" are not literal 24 hour days like we think of as a day, but rather "eras" encompassing an unknown span of time. "With the Lord a day is LIKE a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8)




man.
that is super convenient.
always seems to work that way with the bible though.

so god didnt really create everything in 6 days then?
it was an unknown amount of time?

then why say six days?
why not say god created the heaven and earth in an unknown amount of time. and then he rested for an unknown amount of time?

so many questions. so few answers


It was 6 Heavenly Days. Later in Genesis, a single day in Heaven is defined as 1000 years for man. 6000 years of creation before 1000 years of rest. And if creationists actually read the Bible, it's still over 14,000 years old (at least where I left off, which was somewhere just past The Flood). Let us not forget those stories in the Old Testament are a combination/revision of stories from other cultures.

Jesus spoke in metaphors almost all the time. Quite possibly, all of the Old Testament was just a metaphor with some historical facts mixed in to make a point:


  1. The Earth is Ancient, so ancient that we cannot comprehend it, but to make it stick it is put in concepts more easily understood
  2. There is a Supreme Creator
  3. mankind comes from the Earth, so respect and care for the Earth
  4. Listen to your elders (that includes The Supreme Being), even if you don't yet understand (The Tree of Knowledge)
  5. When we give our rebel thoughts form (Satan walking as a Fallen Angel), we must remove that which gives them power over us (Satan now a snake) and banish them from our mind (Eden)


-There is definitely more to list

Once I hit the 5 posts, I might just start a thread on this. This stems from my research on The Essenes and their view of the Bible as mostly Jesus' spiritual journey, not something literal. He and His family were Essenes, a fascinating group of spiritual people.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 10:05 PM
link   
a reply to: OMEyeBeliev3




Jesus spoke in metaphors almost all the time

You mean he made stuff up?
*gasp*



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: OMEyeBeliev3
When we give our rebel thoughts form (Satan walking as a Fallen Angel), we must remove that which gives them power over us (Satan now a snake) and banish them from our mind (Eden)


This is one of my favorite interpretations of the bible. I use to ponder about many of the bible stories being about the internal conflict between good and evil within the mind. Satan doesn't temp us. WE tempt us and we have a choice to give in to it or not. The Qur'an can be interpreted that way as well. If you made that thread, I'd definitely be interested.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Phantom423

Oh I see what you did there. You posted a mathematical equation a pretended that it proved something.

Scientists have openly admitted that that radioactive decay is not constant and that it is affected by solar radiation. They do however say that the difference that it makes is under normal circumstances is minute. What they fail to address is the unusual occurrences that occur on a regular basis. e.g. massive solar flares.


Two researchers with affiliations at The Hebrew University (Jerusalem, Israel), the University of Barcelona (Barcelona, Spain), and Harvard University (Cambridge, Massachusetts) have examined the role of gamma ray bursts in the extinction of life in our galaxy and other galaxies. They examined the rate and luminosity of gamma ray bursts, and they found a 60% probability that the Ordovician–Silurian extinction event was caused by such a burst.


With gamma radiation causing Ordovician–Silurian extinction event radioactive isotopes would have been exposed to more that enough gamma radiation to cause photodisintegration.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:30 PM
link   
a reply to: Phage

Have you actually read The Bible? He spoke in metaphors and even explained some (not that those around had ears to hear or eyes to see).

Before you bash The Bible, think of it this way: Jesus speaks in metaphors because God speaks in metaphors. Satan never really understood, so rebelled and constantly tests/makes bets with God.

On a personal level, I have faith that a being sparked our creation and designed evolution in order for the multitude of species to thrive.

Jesus/Joseph/Mary were Essenes. The Essenes had a great relationship with Buddhist Monks. They (Essenes) also taught all their people the spiritual texts at the time. They also believed in charity without broadcasting it. Remember those scrolls found in hills? The Essenes lived in hills due to them being a minority and a dangerous belief system.

I would be happy to discuss further at a later time. It's after midnight where I am and I am going to bed. Goodnight.

The best way out of naïveté is through discussion. Never judge the reasons behind it, for we are all naive in some way. I am naive when it comes to sports, the understanding of many spiritual texts, and a multitude of other things.
edit on 8/17/2015 by OMEyeBeliev3 because: removed the bit about The Parable of The Lost Coin; Not critical



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:38 PM
link   
a reply to: OMEyeBeliev3

Have you actually read The Bible?
Not all of it, a fair portion.



Before you bash The Bible
I don't think I did. I think the allegories in both the old and new testaments are beautiful. A lot of them anyway.

edit on 8/17/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 05:52 AM
link   
a reply to: hudsonhawk69

And you never read my explanatory post several pages back. Read it again:

"That isn't what he said at all. You're implying that ALL radioactive decay rates are in question. They are not. Manganese and its various isotopes have a decay rate from less than a nanosecond to approximately 1 second. 81Kr, which is used in ice core samplings, has a decay rate of 2.29(11)×105 a, or 229,000 years.

If radioactive decay rates were inaccurate, every diagnostic tool used in medicine that employs radioactive materials would put out false results. The H bomb could have never been developed. Nuclear energy could never be developed.

The impact of neutrinos or other particles generated by the Sun may change rates on a very small micro scale, but on the macro scale that is used in all aspects of engineering, science and medicine, they are accurate. He's a particle physicist - he's researching on an entirely different level.

In any case, it's not at all relevant to ice core analysis.

This is the original paper which describes the phenomenon:
arxiv.org... "



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 05:57 AM
link   
a reply to: hudsonhawk69






With gamma radiation causing Ordovician–Silurian extinction event radioactive isotopes would have been exposed to more that enough gamma radiation to cause photodisintegration.


Please tell me what "more than enough" equates to. We don't report data as "more than enough" in science. Back up your assertions with data or they are meaningless.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:19 PM
link   
a reply to: CB328

What's the deal here Mr OP? Are you still watching this thread? Does anything that I've posted (Or anyone else for that matter) indicate to you how "young earth creationists" might have cause to question ice core dating?

At the end of the day we can continue to argue the point endlessly however if you are not reading the debate then what is the point?

Are you still reading? Does anything that has been posted make any kind of sense?



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:31 PM
link   
Science requires proofs. If you look at the set of creationist views, no proofs, in fact rejection.
The proofs are what make things like this venue possible. The entire debate over the issue has this fact as a root.

It cannot be explained away in any other fashion, unless you can pass through that filter.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 10:38 PM
link   
a reply to: borntowatch


Your question wont be addressed because evolutionists are ignorant and terrified of what creationists think


THAT... is the funniest thing I've heard all week


No one is terrified about what creationists think...

That's right.... NO ONE

Except perhaps the educated child of a creationist...




posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:05 AM
link   
Rather than science making an assumption that the climate has remained the same over the centuries, I would like science to do a study as to what would happen during a sudden catastrophic climate change.

Ice core data is no doubt based on current climate patterns. If Antarctica was temperate before the flood of Noah's day, what would happen if it was suddenly immersed in water at a lower temperature. Would the sudden freezing of such huge volumes of water create a single layer? Or would many layers happen relatively quickly? That is the true question.

More importantly, if they found frozen plant and animal life below the masses of ice, then they would have to change their theories. They already find woolly mammoths frozen in the arctic, with vegetation in their mouths. This freeze did not happen slowly.

If you test the hypothesis by plugging the wrong variables into an experiment, the conclusion will be wrong 100% of the time.

edit on 19-8-2015 by TheChrome because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 12:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheChrome
If Antarctica was temperate before the flood of Noah's day, what would happen if it was suddenly immersed in water at a lower temperature. Would the sudden freezing of such huge volumes of water create a single layer? Or would many layers happen relatively quickly? That is the true question....

....If you test the hypothesis by plugging the wrong variables into an experiment, the conclusion will be wrong 100% of the time.


There was no global flood. The geologic record supports this statement.
It's quite obvious you haven't read any of the material presented, nor ventured into the links given as support against your flawed hypothesis....no scrap that; your bogus fantasies.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 01:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: TheChrome
If Antarctica was temperate before the flood of Noah's day, what would happen if it was suddenly immersed in water at a lower temperature. Would the sudden freezing of such huge volumes of water create a single layer? Or would many layers happen relatively quickly? That is the true question....

....If you test the hypothesis by plugging the wrong variables into an experiment, the conclusion will be wrong 100% of the time.


There was no global flood. The geologic record supports this statement.
It's quite obvious you haven't read any of the material presented, nor ventured into the links given as support against your flawed hypothesis....no scrap that; your bogus fantasies.


You are incorrect.



Geologists suspect in the past, when some of the collapsed areas in the cave were open to the surface, that high rainfall washed in sediment and moved through the caverns rapidly and abraded the cave walls and ceiling in addition to dissolving them. The extensive deposits of red clay in the cavern are derived from terra rossa soils that were washed in from the surface. These red - brown soils characteristic of karst areas are found as relict soils over the Edwards Plateau. Terra rossa soils have been mapped in the Central Texas area by Dr. Keith Young (Young, 1986)


innerspacecavern.com...

Trapped within this cave, are many animals washed in and fossilized at a single point of time. There are plenty of examples of geology supporting the Flood, you have to open your eyes.

edit on 19-8-2015 by TheChrome because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 01:51 AM
link   
a reply to: TheChrome

Sounds like something from Ken Ham honestly

btw your link is dead


edit on 19-8-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 02:03 AM
link   
a reply to: Akragon

My bad, apparently ATS does not allow PDFs, which will disallow a lot of scientific reports. If you search Bone Sinks Innerspace Caverns, you will find the PDF


edit on 19-8-2015 by TheChrome because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 02:07 AM
link   
a reply to: TheChrome

I don't see anything on that site that "proves" the flood actually happened...

And the only "geology" I know of that supports said flood comes from answers in Genesis...

Which is Ken Ham... Feel free to show this proof of the flood... IF you will




posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 02:14 AM
link   

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TheChrome

I don't see anything on that site that "proves" the flood actually happened...

And the only "geology" I know of that supports said flood comes from answers in Genesis...

Which is Ken Ham... Feel free to show this proof of the flood... IF you will



It's in the PDF. Look at my above quote. The cave had "three" natural entrances at one point in time. At some point, massive rainfall washed huge amounts of mud into the cave and plugged up all entrances. We are not talking about a hurricane or tropical storm here, since that amount of rainfall is not sufficient to create a mud flow capable of plugging up such huge gaps. Also many animals were washed in and fossilized such as saber tooth tigers, mastodons, etc.



posted on Aug, 19 2015 @ 02:17 AM
link   
a reply to: TheChrome

I don't think anyone said that floods don't happen.
The problem is, there is no evidence that a global flood occurred. The world was never covered with water.


edit on 8/19/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 4  5  6    8  9 >>

log in

join