When God Dies

How can something that's eternal, "die?" Not so eternal after all then...

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: windword

But, you can't motion without matter, ie. The Universe.

Anyone who has ever saw a spirit or did an astral projection, disagrees with you. Even people who died and saw Heaven/Paradise and came back disagrees.

Sorry, quick logical question. Do you speak for "anyone who has ever saw ..."? Do you speak for "people who died and saw" whatever?

Maybe if you constrained your expressions to what you yourself believe rather than trying to speak for untold others, you'd be a bit more ... reasonable?

Believable?

a reply to: Kromlech

How can something that's eternal, "die?" Not so eternal after all then...

Even though individual entities die, the cycle of life is eternal, simply because it's a closed cyclic system. Yet, its eternal cycle contains both life and death.

Anyone who has ever saw a spirit or did an astral projection, disagrees with you. Even people who died and saw Heaven/Paradise and came back disagrees.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Sorry, quick logical question. Do you speak for "anyone who has ever saw ..."? Do you speak for "people who died and saw" whatever?

Ok, I'll rephrase my statement:

Anyone who has ever saw a spirit or did an astral projection, knows that the spirit does no require physical matter to move. Even people who died and saw Heaven/Paradise (and therefore different spirits moving around in Heaven/paradise) and came back knows spirits don't need physical matter to move.

It's a logical statement. If spirits move without physical matter (such as in the situations I mentioned) then yes, it is possible for spirits to move without physical matter.

a reply to: windword

Sorry but your interpretation doesn't fit my religion. My God will exist regardless of the existence of this Universe. And He never created anything else in His image, either.

Maybe you should've said "God in the interpretation of the faith you're familiar with".

a reply to: arpgme

If spirits move without physical matter

But we can't know that, because we've never consciously witnessed anything that didn't exist within the physical Universe. Even ghosts and spirits exist within the physical Universe, as they are ghost of someone and spirits of something.

And, the physical Universe is always in motion.

Awesome thread! S&F

I'm under the same impression, the natural cycles that govern the universe around us is a reflection of the cycle that we go through and are going through. This is not the only life we will live and it is not the only one we have lived. This is but one "day" in an unending cycle of birth, death, and rebirth.

The sun may sink over the horizon but it will always rise again on the other side. The tide may go further out to sea but it will always push its way back to the shore again. In the same way, our bodies may die but we will rise into a new one after this day is done and the night runs its course.

God does not know death and neither do we. How can we when all we do is live? Death is an illusion.

God is a human construct. We put meaning and design to what we believe is God.
Saying "When God Dies" is putting a 100% Human trait to something that is defined by Humans.

Look, no one knows what God is. You can say you do, but, you don't. You can say you believe in God and Jesus his son and that is great, but, what does that mean? Both are constructs of the Human Psyche. You can say you've been "touched" by God or "spoken to God" but those are things that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

There is ZERO proof of Gods existence other than what WE as human have put definition to. You can say "look all around us and in nature and the world/universe, God is everywhere and look at its grand design, I can feel God in me", but, you are just spouting hyperbole because not 1 single human can prove the existence of God.

God(s) have existed for as long has Humans have made them exist. All forms and backgrounds are covered. Not 1 of them is true or can be proven.

Asking the question "when god dies" is like asking "is there a God". You have to prove the existence of God, which you cannot. Next, if the true belief of a God, how can God die should be the next question because if he/she/it created all that we know, and has lived this long, what is it that would make he/she/it die since he/she/it has control over ALL OF IT.

Can grant life but must succumb to Death? Would that make Death the greater power in the Universe?

a reply to: windword

Even ghosts and spirits exist within the physical Universe, as they are ghost of someone and spirits of something.

Heaven/Paradise is not the physical universe, neither are the astral realms.

originally posted by: DiddyMcC0y
a reply to: windword

As above so below is actually reference to saturn, in ancient times they Believed "the supernatural being of God was Saturn since it almost looked still in the night sky it moved but not noticable to a human eye" and the human deity was the Sun. The concept In Gods image is that God is a human with certain traits as a human doesnt posses, like the rules of Camelot, or as you call them Ideals. The traditions is alot further back, just that it wouldnt make sense, cause we live in a Human deity era.

Now up, is still down!!

god is all of human inspiration and hopes. eternal life with those you love, a father that protects you from all harm and loves you unconditionally. god comes from human consciousness so when we go so does god. entropy is the final outcome, theres no way around it. god will die a slow and cold death, alone and helpless.

a reply to: arpgme

If those realms aren't part of the physical Universe, what are they? Are you saying that those things don't "exist"? Remember, the Universe is defined as "everything", including parallel dimensions/realities.

a reply to: vjr1113

....god will die a slow and cold death, alone and helpless.

Huh huh. Why should truth be any different for God than it is for the rest of us, in the long run? I wonder if God's an orphan?

originally posted by: windword
When it happens, will God go out with a Big Bang or with a silent whimper, its vacant skeleton haunting nothingness for eternity?

Mankind has the tiniest fraction of understanding of life and death, because we woke up in the middle of it all. We can't find a beginning or an end to life, so we define arbitrary positions, like conception and death. But conception, birth, the first breath, the last breath, the last heart beat, the final brain waves flat line......none of these represent a true beginning or the end, they represent a point within a closed cycle. What we define as death is far from it. Organic life feeds off itself and regenerates through death, thus life appears to be an eternal cycle.

The Holy Books tells us God is Life. The sages tell us we're made in God's image. They say "As Above, So below". They tell us that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Why shouldn't the same be true of God? When God dies, God's death, must therefore, give rise to life. Like our bodies, it follows that God's corpse will feed a greater cycle, yet unperceivable to us.

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

Given everything I know of this universe is anchored on this Earth and the short 30-some years I've been here, I can only fathom a God similar to me or to others I've met or to other lifeforms.

Everything is--at heart--waves. Coming and going, maybe eternally. We're portions of waves in a local space/time. Life is probably fundamental to the universe, just like gravity or electromagnetics. I say probably because I've no reason to think it's not fundamental. I see no reason to separate us.

God is probably the same. A wave. A local space/time event, sort of like a star or tree or planet, maybe existing in a larger dimension. And yet this universe might not be a God or even exist inside a God. But I do believe there're higher beings than myself who I might associate with a God-being or god-like powers, so that's close enough for my tastes.

God will probably die, just like we do, maybe having an afterlife too. This is not to say God's remains will forever disappear from existence. God's skeleton or parts of it might remain for a good long time, even if just as a memory. For example, it's possible in rare circumstances for bones or other artifacts to be preserved for millions of years. And we could probably create technologies which would far outlast our own bodies. And yet even if we fail to create things which outlast our body, it's not certainty we're gone forever. Even more exotic technologies might allow us to peer into the past to see humans who lived. Their physical remains and other civilization artifacts are gone, but energies which collided with them survived and our technologies tapped them to recreate past events.

But just as the OP says, things repeat. Waves repeat. So God dying is not the end of all God-beings. It will repeat here by recycling itself or elsewhere in other universes. Maybe there're infinite God-beings. And similarly there're infinite human creatures and other lifeforms. Even if it's not infinite, it's sure to repeat, just as if I die tomorrow new babies will be born. Death is only the end of the physical individual. It's not necessarily the end of their memories or of the things which defined them.

a reply to: arpgme

Heaven/Paradise are a product of the physical brain. When you meditate you are entering heaven, yet your body is still there for others to see. If there is no physical then there is also no immaterial either and vice versa.

Heaven is the immaterial mind, not some place separate from physical existence. The material and immaterial are interconnected on every level.

a reply to: windword

If those realms aren't part of the physical Universe, what are they? Are you saying that those things don't "exist"? Remember, the Universe is defined as "everything", including parallel dimensions/realities.

That's not my definition of Universe, nor is it the definition for those who believe in The Multiverse.

Heaven is in another universe/dimension/reality. It does not require this physical universe to exist.

a reply to: windword

i have no problem defining god as the human collective knowledge. makes no difference to my previous post as knowledge is dependent on the human mind. what's the point of knowledge when no one can learn? whats the point of a god if no one can pray to it?

a reply to: vjr1113

What do you mean by "no one can learn"?