What is the point of keeping Alien Life from the public?

originally posted by: Informer1958
Lloyd Pye - Everything You Know Is Wrong

I always thought that was a great title because everything Lloyd Pye "knew" was, of course, wrong.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

I always thought that was a great title because everything Lloyd Pye "knew" was, of course, wrong.

Proof please?

a reply to: mirageman

The anatomy of any such cover up would have to include far too many persons of many nationalities for nearly 70 years.

Even in the heyday of the 50s and 60s, it is surprising things could be kept secret even that long. There is such a built in mentality to deny and mock, its hard to say imo.

There are many cases like Trumbull or Belgium , where I think many would say we had the possibility of an alien UFO. The Belgium case is especially interesting as the govt seemed open to finding the truth and telling the public(instead of denying everything and secretly checking it out), but still nothing. Perhaps both cases were just military, but either way, eventually the story goes away except on so called nutter sites like this...

And really I just had to respond to tell you your old avatar was so much better

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I agree. And as I mentioned previously, the mind can play tricks. I don't doubt that something occurred with the abductees, but whether it was alien intervention remains to be seen.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I agree. And as I mentioned previously, the mind can play tricks. I don't doubt that something occurred with the abductees, but whether it was alien intervention remains to be seen.

Its unfortunate that its entirely in the realm of subjective experience.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Yes it seems sometimes we get so much information and then the curtain of ridicule or silence descends.

Have you heard of the Sheffield UFO Incident from 1997 in the UK?

That's a really odd one where a RAF Tornado is rumoured to have crashed chasing a UFO. It seemed like the press were investigating that one for a time. It's in the UK MoD files and the local MP brought it up in Parliament Two sonic booms were recorded over the UK but the RAF denied it was them. Implying someone or something else caused it over restricted airspace. There was no real mocking it just fizzled out as no one got anywhere. with it.

And really I just had to respond to tell you your old avatar was so much better

Don't worry I have a strict rotation policy and no avatar outstays it's welcome. It does feature two miragemen though

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

only to some Brother , remember , seems like the afflicted get left gooseberry.. where's the fun in that..

*extreme example below , not excluding ,the blind, deaf and dumb, amputee's ** etc*



**maybe some guy with a wooden leg

box

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Afdcs

We cannot stop them if we wanted to.
We do not know where they come from, or what they want.
We cannot stop the abduction program.
We cannot stop their hybridization program.
We do not know why they are creating hybrids.
We cannot stop them from using you to create offspring against your will.
We can't even stop them from pulling you out of your car, or out of your own bed. Your children, too.

Heh, we cant even keep you from creating multiple accounts and junking up the forum with nonsense.

Nonsense? So do you live in another reality or something... because all the things that member just listed are pretty accurate as a matter of fact.

are you here just to troll?

Where is my trolling? Please elaborate, I just pointed out that the list posted by Afdcs is based on facts.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: JackHill

It still sounds circumstantial. Hard evidence would include something unique about the markings - something that couldn't be replicated with any human surgical tool or instrument which would make a permanent impression. Or something tangible that all the abductees have in common. That doesn't seem to exist - at least to my knowledge.
Even before the internet and cable TV, these stories were around in various publications. Similar reports may be just that - similar. The mind can play tricks and what seems like exactly the same event to one person could turn out to be quite different.

Apparently all these abductees are eventually returned. Are there abductees who have never returned? Have any of them been abducted for any significant length of time that would cause others to wonder where they are? If so, what happened when they returned?

Yes, we get there's not enough physical evidence, if that were the case, the reality would be very different. But your alternative explanations (marks couls be something else, there were some books of aliens around) is simply childish and it doesn't have anything to do with the concrete reality of the phenomena.

We cannot know if there are abductees that weren't ever returned.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
Despite the insistence by some that there are "Multiple abductees at the same time" and other such assertions, any investigation into any particular case doesn't really support those assertions.

Being uninformed on the subject isn't excuse to post things that aren't accurate. There are cases that involve multiple abductees at the same time.

originally posted by: JackHill

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
Despite the insistence by some that there are "Multiple abductees at the same time" and other such assertions, any investigation into any particular case doesn't really support those assertions.

Being uninformed on the subject isn't excuse to post things that aren't accurate. There are cases that involve multiple abductees at the same time.

Awesome

a reply to: mirageman

Yes. Spot on.

The 'phenomena' won't let itself be weaponized,
so it's no use to the government, and does not
involve anything promoting humanity wish fulfillment scenarios, so it pretty much goes
unresearched.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

Yet another case I am unfamiliar with, so many cases, so little time.

You mentioning parliament is also another piece which is hard to figure. Goldwater verbally abused by a General, Podesta roadblocked, and President Clinton suspicious he wasnt getting the whole truth. Seeems odd all these people didnt have at one time the access needed to confirm things one way or another in their own mind, but apparently not.

Goldwater getting dressed down really leads me to believe that at least some of the military are hiding something.

a reply to: JackHill

Where is my trolling? Please elaborate,

Right here:

I just pointed out that the list posted by Afdcs is based on facts

You see, the "facts" you are peddling come from guys that "stack the deck" and request panties from women while they hypnotize them over the phone. Not exactly what I would call a strong foundation. The "facts" that were listed just come from some user that has been banned multiple times and just creates new accounts after he gets banned. Not exactly someone I would rely on for information. It just follows the pattern of dishonesty that has dominated "abduction research". To keep the flow of dishonesty, you assert your list of "facts" and ask for "alternate" explanations when your "facts" have never been established in the first place and then you call people trolls that disagree with you. As the saying goes, Whoever spoke it broke it.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: mirageman

Yet another case I am unfamiliar with, so many cases, so little time.

You mentioning parliament is also another piece which is hard to figure. Goldwater verbally abused by a General, Podesta roadblocked, and President Clinton suspicious he wasnt getting the whole truth. Seeems odd all these people didnt have at one time the access needed to confirm things one way or another in their own mind, but apparently not.

Goldwater getting dressed down really leads me to believe that at least some of the military are hiding something.

Indeed true.
Goldwater was the fire burning underneath the Air Force's collective ass, and so they set up Blue book, and every other public relations ploys were also done in order to remove the public from view of everything the Air Force was really doing. They hated having to talk about something they had zero defenses against, which they were secretly analyzing to gain advances in weapons. Major Keyhoe went on air at that same time and exposed the Air force publicly for using Blue book to discredit all UFO sightings and explain them all away, which Blue-books chief civilian scientist later confirmed.

Only special report 14 which was then classified, showed some of the truly good cases that could not be explained in a conventional sense.
Many of the characteristics the military was studying about flying saucers included mass cancelling technology. and magneto aerodynamics, which are still classified now. Using electric induction fields to "fly" rather than airfoils and air pressures.. Although no doubt there is a whole lot more than that to it.

Anyone who has seen a flying saucer zipping around will know they are real, but then there are plenty of government documents confirming that..The debunkers are another matter entirely. A social anomaly of reasoning.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

I did a thread about the 1997 Sheffield UFO case way back when I was still a new member here.

Did a RAF Tornado crash during a UFO intercept mission in 1997?

Either the RAF/MoD or HM Government have never really explained what happened that night. They denied the sonic booms were caused by our combat aircraft but never explained or sought to explain what was in British airspace. Sometimes news is that easy to bury. In fact many of my fellow Brits have possibly never heard of this incident and probably never will!

As well as his interest in the UFO secrets Clinton (I believe) tried to get to the bottom of the JFK assassination. A much more down to earth event. Something we know actually happened and yet very few people really, really know the truth behind it all. Even with the Manhattan Project Harry Truman was not made aware of it whilst Vice President. Even though he was suspicious of where funds were going in the war effort. But he was told once he was President.


Yes , I am stating my opinion again here:

I don't believe there is an almighty US government cover-up as told in the MJ-12 type documents (which would also have to encompass the rest of the globe). But I do think 'someone' somewhere knows more than we do. Without them really knowing what this UFO phenomenon is. Perhaps they are aware it isn't necessarily life as we know it or even what we think of as 'life' at all. So we can't quantify it with our current science. Any attempts to study it have been high cost, with low probability of success. So all 'they' know is exposure to it can create an odd "experience" in human consciousness.

Presidents and Prime Ministers, who come and go frequently, probably have "no need to know" and could well be kept out of the loop. This may seem unconstitutional at first. But it is possibly very cleverly hidden away in plain sight. So if ever the direct question is asked about "little green men from other planets" the truth is they have never been proven to exist.

But that's just a part of my theory so far. I may have to revise it at a later date.

a reply to: mirageman

I don't believe there is an almighty US government cover-up as told in the MJ-12 type documents (which would also have to encompass the rest of the globe).

I go back and forth on this one, i just dont know. Like in the Shag harbor incident, we have these ghost witnesses who wont come forward(supposedly of course) because they are afraid of repercussions. Is there some group in Canada towing the line for alien cover up ? It just seems like we should be able to know one way or another if this really happened or not, especially if there is really nothing to it.

Presidents and Prime Ministers, who come and go frequently, probably have "no need to know" and could well be kept out of the loop. This may seem unconstitutional at first.

It doesnt just seem unconstitutional, heads would freaking roll if the President found out he was out of the loop
One would think the President has to know, or if he wanted to, has the means to keep firing people till he finds a yes man.

There is no shortage of people claiming Clinton is just a clever liar about his knowledge(such conspiracy, maybe they post her on ATS). The Presidential UFO site makes the argument that all Presidents are in the know.

Maybe Podesta just didnt get the memo.

Whats your opinion on the MoD, do you think they are holding anything back? The whole "need to know" rule you mention, and most govts follow, lends itself to a cover up. Especially when most people just dont take the subject seriously anyway.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Sadly Major Keyhoe is another person I havent gotten to reading up on. Thanks for bringing him up.

The debunkers are another matter entirely. A social anomaly of reasoning.

Harsh... I cant really relate to the dedicated debunker either, but this is true of so many people like rock climbers. My self preservation gene doesnt even let me consider such foolishness. Apparently existing isnt at the top of everyones list.

If you work in any large environment of people, you just come to realize there is just all kinds of strangness out there. We have these 2 people where are i work who like to dress up in animal costumes(like college mascotts). And there is whole community of people who do this...

No reason to hate though, debunkers have helped show many cases just arent that good. All the whining in the thread about the cell phone footage was interesting... oh no, someone might not believe it ! Black helicopters everywhere...

A couple points, one I read only a couple times, and the other point was mentioned a few times.

1. The Government doesn't really know. They have admitted numerous times that UFO's are real, pose no threat, and they don't know who the occupants are. How could they make any sort of announcement when they don't have any facts or smoking gun evidence themselves? Why announce aliens, when it could be demons, or time travelers, or inter dimensional beings.

2. An announcement would cause mass panic. Back in the day you would have religious panic, now you would also have rioting and protesting against the government for covering it up. You would also have the media and their doom porn spinning it into complete fear overload.

How much more can the government know that we don't? It's not like the public has smoking gun evidence of aliens and the government still denies it. However, this may happen one day as you see political parties arguing over facts with their biased opinion. Things like gun rights, abortion, immigration, war on drugs etc...There could be a community of people who have smoking gun evidence of aliens but are ignored, ridiculed, and denied by the government.

On the other hand the discovery of extremophiles, a radio signal, or one day atmosphere detection telescopes prove other life is out there, this is no big deal to most people now a days. The reason people are cool with the idea is the massive amount of stars and galaxies we have discovered with Hubble, and exoplanets with Kepler.

A space ship in our Solar System would cause a a lot of fear, even with the government who is covering it up.

If grey aliens have bases on our moons and our government knows a lot about them, then it's probably covered up for good reasons such as fear and lack of knowledge.

Also I'd like to add a third scenario that has been mentioned by many scientists regarding the subject, that aliens probably think we are too primitive and have no interest getting publicly involved with the world because we are just a bunch of warmongering apes.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Whats your opinion on the MoD, do you think they are holding anything back? The whole "need to know" rule you mention, and most govts follow, lends itself to a cover up. Especially when most people just don't take the subject seriously anyway.

Yes they do and they still are.

Again sorry for the long reply here.

If you leaf through the MoD UFO documents released then it soon becomes apparent that a lot of it is correspondence with members of the public, newspaper and book clippings and some interdepartmental briefings and memos. A lot of mundane and very dull stuff.

However there is the famous Churchill Memo dated July 28th 1952. Which I suspect was prompted by the Washington DC Saucer Flap of 1952. Churchill asks of his Air Ministry:

"What does all this stuff about flying saucers amount to? What can it mean? What is the truth?"

However the British Intelligence Services had already conducted a survey by forming the "Flying Saucer Working Party" in 1950 and finding (at least stating they found) nothing but the usual prosaic explanations. In fact most "UFO" stories do have prosaic explanations.

....all the observations reported were due to one or other of the following causes:---
• Astronomical or meteorological phenomena of known types.
• Mistaken identification of conventional aircraft, balloons, birds, or other normal or natural objects.
• Optical illusions and psychological delusions.
• Deliberate hoaxes.

So Churchill had to specifically ask the question even though a Working Party had already conducted a report with the help of allies in the USA. The MoD however did carry on investigations and also destroyed a lot of it's papers on UFOs before the FOIA had even been suggested in Parliament.

Zoom forward to the present day and it seems that although they claimed everything the MoD held in their UFO files had been released into the public domain that the MoD actually hadn't.

John Burroughs, one of the Rendlesham UFO witnesses, discovered that 18 "UFO/UAP" related files had not been released. You may remember that the previously released Condign report helped him win a case against the VA because it postulated that he and other witnesses were exposed to a form of radiation.

These are the 18 files to be released:


DAIRDEF/111/6/4 C31 AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL LOW FLYING UFOS
D/DAIRDEF/111/6/4 C3I AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL LOW FLYING UFOS
D/DAIRDEF/111/6/4 CSI AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL LOW FLYING UFOS
D/DDOPS(GE)/10/8 ADMIN + GENERAL UFOS
D/DAO1/13 ADGE UFO REPORTS
D/DAO1/13 ADGE UFO REPORTS
D/DAO1/13 ADGE UFO REPORTS
D/DAO1/13 ADGE UFO REPORT
D/DAO1/13 ADGE UFO REPORTS
D/IPR2X/2/4/1 FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT 2000 (FOI) COPYRIGHT ISSUES CONCERNING INTERNET PUBLICATION REPORTS OF UFO SIGHTINGS
2GP(BP)/88772/10/ISTAR UFO Reports
M9/18 Defence Policy Issues UFOs
D/DS8/75/2/1 UFO Reports Correspondence
D/DI55/108/15 UFO Policy 1971-96
D/DI55/108/15 UFO Policy 1996-2000
D/DI55/108/15 UAP Policy June-Dec 2000
D/DI55/108/15 UAP Policy Dec 2000-March 2004
D/DI55/108/15 UAP Policy March 2004

Source : www.gov.uk...



Now the reasons why documents are held back could be as simple as they have been overlooked due to administrative errors. Even reasons of "national security" are good reasons. We would not want hostile nations knowing the performance ratings of our Air Defence Systems and personnel.

So I can say that I do not expect any smoking gun to be revealed when these documents are finally released. But there may be another few pieces to the puzzle fall out of the box. Even though I doubt the MoD have the lid with the full picture on it.

So it's not so much an organised international "cover up" more like being very careful with the truth. When the suits in power ask questions, carefully worded replies and documentation are drafted. The same applies to the way the media is handled.

The MoD let the status quo prevail because it's easier than admitting we don't know what this rare phenomena is, it's near impossible to study in detail, and if you are exposed for too long there could be side effects ranging from hallucination like states of mind to physical symptoms. It's all about control and management of public perceptions even when government doesn't have any answers itself.

As for Shag Harbour I may look at that one in detail as the nights start to draw in later in the year.